American women vs Arab women raising children

[palilover 1]

I will say that no matter where you are in any country - going to the MENA countries or MENA citizens coming to the US, everyone will be able to point out either silently in their own mind or to others, the cultural differences that are apparent. However, I will say that parenting skills or lack there of are worldwide. I'm always amazed at how people raise their children here and abroad - some better, some worse. I'm not down with making sweeping statements about one culture or another, but it does happen and some of the issues that K pointed out are true. If they weren't true, it wouldn't have stung like it did.

Aside from that, and this is directed to no one in particular, at the end of the day, if you were born in the US you are an American. You were raised by an American mother and father, have American grandparents, siblings, aunts, uncles, and cousins. They are your family, and as my dad always said, "you can pick your nose, you can pick your friends, but you can't pick your family." I don't care how much you try to deny it, you are from here...so unless you take your passport and chuck it, and then renounce your citizenship (which is an option), you will always be an American. When it is all said and done, anytime anyone makes a broad statement about American women, I would hope that you would stick up for the American woman - because no matter what abaya or hijab you wear beyond these borders, or how well you speak Arabic, you will always be viewed as an American woman - and so will the daughters that you bring into this world as well.

Just my two little cents.

[Ban Hammer 13,345]

Ignoring all the arab bashing and what this topic has turned to- Hanging In There; U r allowed to moun cry n be sad all u want over ur baby. Whats not allowed is the screaming becoz it hurts the deceased!

... ... ....

i learn something new in mena every day.

Its a muslim belief. Its supported by a hadith by the Prophet; but unfortunately i dont have them in english.

maybe it's just me, but i don't think the dead can hear anything.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Ignoring all the arab bashing and what this topic has turned to- Hanging In There; U r allowed to moun cry n be sad all u want over ur baby. Whats not allowed is the screaming becoz it hurts the deceased!

... ... ....

i learn something new in mena every day.

Its a muslim belief. Its supported by a hadith by the Prophet; but unfortunately i dont have them in english.

maybe it's just me, but i don't think the dead can hear anything.

Its some hadith that talks about not wailing at funerals...

Like bob marley and the wailers.. you know wailing? Shrieking? Oh never mind

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

I will say that no matter where you are in any country - going to the MENA countries or MENA citizens coming to the US, everyone will be able to point out either silently in their own mind or to others, the cultural differences that are apparent. However, I will say that parenting skills or lack there of are worldwide. I'm always amazed at how people raise their children here and abroad - some better, some worse. I'm not down with making sweeping statements about one culture or another, but it does happen and some of the issues that K pointed out are true. If they weren't true, it wouldn't have stung like it did.

Aside from that, and this is directed to no one in particular, at the end of the day, if you were born in the US you are an American. You were raised by an American mother and father, have American grandparents, siblings, aunts, uncles, and cousins. They are your family, and as my dad always said, "you can pick your nose, you can pick your friends, but you can't pick your family." I don't care how much you try to deny it, you are from here...so unless you take your passport and chuck it, and then renounce your citizenship (which is an option), you will always be an American. When it is all said and done, anytime anyone makes a broad statement about American women, I would hope that you would stick up for the American woman - because no matter what abaya or hijab you wear beyond these borders, or how well you speak Arabic, you will always be viewed as an American woman - and so will the daughters that you bring into this world as well.

Just my two little cents.

Well they dont. And somehow some of them think its impressive to their husbands or whoever else is around to bash this country and the people in it. I got news for you. When bozo bops you on the head or takes your money or your heart or noth, or you are losing your house or your mind or god knows what else, the most likely source of help for you are the KUFFARS. The kuffar salvation army. The kuffar food pantry. The kuffar united way or what ever haram organization you can think of.

Frankly, when life is all peachy you think everyone is there. The reality is that when life deals you some serious #######, the AMERICAN KUFFARS have marvelous organizations to help you. And frankly if I was scared out of my mind, Id call the first baptist church because the whole sherriffs department goes there. When I Was being battered by the pali I used to be with, I told a bunch of baptists and they all came over with potluck and sat in my house and stared at him. Theyd stop by every day as if to say. MESS WITH HER YOU MESS WITH US. And hell, I wasnt even baptist.

I love Americans. I love them love them love them. If anyone wants to bash them , they will have me , a jello mold, my tupperware set, and 14 women from the sewing circle from the church down the street to deal with ( and I dont even go there)

I love the way Americans help other Americans. I love our sense of community , charity and work ethic. I love our appreciation of the arts and parks and that most of our streets dont look like ashtrays. I love the fact that we are diverse... I love the fact you can be almost anything you want to be if you try hard.

The kuffars arent so bad folks. And if an American wont tell them that, give me a call. Ill have a come to jesus talk to them about what I have been through the last month and who did what and who helped me and who the hell didnt.

Love you guys

kathleen

[palilover 1]

Ignoring all the arab bashing and what this topic has turned to- Hanging In There; U r allowed to moun cry n be sad all u want over ur baby. Whats not allowed is the screaming becoz it hurts the deceased!

... ... ....

i learn something new in mena every day.

Its a muslim belief. Its supported by a hadith by the Prophet; but unfortunately i dont have them in english.

maybe it's just me, but i don't think the dead can hear anything.

Its some hadith that talks about not wailing at funerals...

Like bob marley and the wailers.. you know wailing? Shrieking? Oh never mind

then how come on tv/movies, etc when ever someone dies in middle east, all the women do is wail and beat themselves? What is up wtih that? (mainly the beating themselves I wonder about though not so much the wailing)

[Y's_habibitk 2]

S and S,

I hope you got something out of this thread, to help you deal with this woman at your work. Per the norm, it somehow turned into a little zoo lol

Good luck in however you decide to handle it.

Lisa

[palilover 1]

I will say that no matter where you are in any country - going to the MENA countries or MENA citizens coming to the US, everyone will be able to point out either silently in their own mind or to others, the cultural differences that are apparent. However, I will say that parenting skills or lack there of are worldwide. I'm always amazed at how people raise their children here and abroad - some better, some worse. I'm not down with making sweeping statements about one culture or another, but it does happen and some of the issues that K pointed out are true. If they weren't true, it wouldn't have stung like it did.

Aside from that, and this is directed to no one in particular, at the end of the day, if you were born in the US you are an American. You were raised by an American mother and father, have American grandparents, siblings, aunts, uncles, and cousins. They are your family, and as my dad always said, "you can pick your nose, you can pick your friends, but you can't pick your family." I don't care how much you try to deny it, you are from here...so unless you take your passport and chuck it, and then renounce your citizenship (which is an option), you will always be an American. When it is all said and done, anytime anyone makes a broad statement about American women, I would hope that you would stick up for the American woman - because no matter what abaya or hijab you wear beyond these borders, or how well you speak Arabic, you will always be viewed as an American woman - and so will the daughters that you bring into this world as well.

Just my two little cents.

Well they dont. And somehow some of them think its impressive to their husbands or whoever else is around to bash this country and the people in it. I got news for you. When bozo bops you on the head or takes your money or your heart or noth, or you are losing your house or your mind or god knows what else, the most likely source of help for you are the KUFFARS. The kuffar salvation army. The kuffar food pantry. The kuffar united way or what ever haram organization you can think of.

Frankly, when life is all peachy you think everyone is there. The reality is that when life deals you some serious #######, the AMERICAN KUFFARS have marvelous organizations to help you. And frankly if I was scared out of my mind, Id call the first baptist church because the whole sherriffs department goes there. When I Was being battered by the pali I used to be with, I told a bunch of baptists and they all came over with potluck and sat in my house and stared at him. Theyd stop by every day as if to say. MESS WITH HER YOU MESS WITH US. And hell, I wasnt even baptist.

I love Americans. I love them love them love them. If anyone wants to bash them , they will have me , a jello mold, my tupperware set, and 14 women from the sewing circle from the church down the street to deal with ( and I dont even go there)

I love the way Americans help other Americans. I love our sense of community , charity and work ethic. I love our appreciation of the arts and parks and that most of our streets dont look like ashtrays. I love the fact that we are diverse... I love the fact you can be almost anything you want to be if you try hard.

The kuffars arent so bad folks. And if an American wont tell them that, give me a call. Ill have a come to jesus talk to them about what I have been through the last month and who did what and who helped me and who the hell didnt.

Love you guys

kathleen

If I ever run into my sister in law again, I will sic you on her, ok? lol

Yeah the arabs are known for their sense of community. But it is not there as they like to brag about. They don't help each other. I've been helped more by nonmuslims than Muslims. And saddest thing is, when i first converted to Islam, I was one of thsoe who thought I should be a goody goody and bash the kaffir country. I am ashamed now at how I acted in the first 3 years I was a Muslim. In the past 2 years, however, I am debrainwashing myself. If it was not for my husband, I'd have been at the club scene a long time ago! Americans are great within reason of course. I mean, the club scene (fyi, I never actually did that anyways even before I was a Muslim but being locked up maka me wanna go out and get crazy) is not all bad if you don't let it be. you dont have to sleep with the first guy who buys you a drink and shoot, you dont even have to drink at all! That's just one example of how the Muslims blow our culture all out of proportion!

Speaking of the sense of community, remember Hurricane Katrina? It was on the news all the time about how people were looting, stealing, raping women at the convention center, etc, etc. My sister in law pointed that out to me once and said "See, you would never see that in Palestine! Look at how Americans are! If Palestine was at war tomorrow, we'd all hold hands and help each otehr." haha I havent seen help from a Palestinian yet. In fact, when it comes to helping me, sister in law bails out. Now who is talking about community now? She can't even deal with family, let alone community!

[SaadBell 0]

To be honest the only place I think I would be happy is Amsterdam Holland, my dream would be to own a coffee shop, sit all day and do nothing but talk about life. How freaking great would that be, plus Holland is a great country, very liberal, universal health care, lots of good perks. Dreams are good, I sure wish this one would come true.

Beautiful isn't it, like a little piece of heaven folks.

Hanging with other lovers of the herb

Hang some cool art work up, make it nice and cozy.

[palilover 1]

hm...I dont know why but I wanna own an internet cafe, lol Of course most people in the US have computers here in America so no internet cafes needed here. But in middle east, internet cafe is big and even in Europe it is. But I do want to at least try to live in middle east someday, but it all depends on where. So for now I'll just stick to being a techie phone slave:(

[Simply_Uno 1]

Ignoring all the arab bashing and what this topic has turned to- Hanging In There; U r allowed to moun cry n be sad all u want over ur baby. Whats not allowed is the screaming becoz it hurts the deceased!

... ... ....

i learn something new in mena every day.

Its a muslim belief. Its supported by a hadith by the Prophet; but unfortunately i dont have them in english.

maybe it's just me, but i don't think the dead can hear anything.

(I was waiting for that to be said)

[S and S 12]

S and S,

I hope you got something out of this thread, to help you deal with this woman at your work. Per the norm, it somehow turned into a little zoo lol

Good luck in however you decide to handle it.

Lisa

Thanks Lisa, I think I got some good ideas and support here. Also, if nothing else, it felt good to get the frustration out with people who have an idea of what I am talking about and how it feels. I am one of those people that tries to see the good in all people. Its not to say I'm perfect and don't slip, but I honestly try. If I hear an arab bash on America then I defend it. For instance, when I was visiting some of my husband's cousins the conversation turned to politics and the US. Of course they are Iraqi and living as refugees just trying to survive so I really understand they aren't going to be very happy. Yet I took me "okay" arabic and told them all about our health care issues here in the US. By the end of the conversation they were feeling sorry for American's! lol, just telling them how much it costs to have a baby without insurance here blew their minds.

On another note, I get tired of hearing people bash on the Iraqi people and say Americans would never act like them in time of war or disaster. Iraqis are doing the best they can while living in constant violence, limited electricity and contaminated water. Even going to work is taking your life into your hands and thousands have died from doing that alone. Then I point out how things turned in New Orleans after Katrina. Lawlessness can happen anywhere under the right circumstances and it is not on us to judge until we live through it. Just like those kids we see begging on the streets over in the middle east, take a look at our past and during the depression. Parents were doing the same thing with their kids. We just live better right now so you rarely see it (or at least for the moment).

I do believe Americans are the most giving and helpful (on the whole). We are raised with the idea of helping others and giving from the time we can walk and talk. It isn't even just a "Christian" thing. I've had athiest friends help me out in a time of need. In fact, if you look at some mosques around the US, they are helping out with habitat for humanity, health clinics, food drives, etc. I like to think "helping" is an American thing and has little to do with religion. Many churches will certainly help you, but there are some that don't really help so much. Also, I can't tell you how many Iraqis have done their best to help me while trying to get my husband here. They give me the best advice they can, I have been given free food, some of the women (including the Iraqi woman I mentioned before) has been a shoulder to cry on when I got frustrated with waiting for my husband. I believe there is good everywhere if you just look for it. Yet sometimes we do have to face the bad as that was the case in my original post for this thread. It isn't going to turn me against all the other arabs out there. I think we have to judge everyone on an individual basis and only was we are well informed.

[S and S 12]

hm...I dont know why but I wanna own an internet cafe, lol Of course most people in the US have computers here in America so no internet cafes needed here. But in middle east, internet cafe is big and even in Europe it is. But I do want to at least try to live in middle east someday, but it all depends on where. So for now I'll just stick to being a techie phone slave:(

lol, I think it would be neat to have an internet cafe too though I've thought of putting a coffee shop and bookstore with it.

[HLM 1]

UNO and Charles- thats my faith!! by no means u have to believe it nor believe in it loool

Palilover- thats what on tv is exactly how women shudnt act at the grave yards nor at the funeral. Also im sorry u had bad experience with muslims where u live. I hope one day u wd meet sincere ppl.

Edited October 9, 2008 by HisLittleMasriyah

[palilover 1]

S and S,

I hope you got something out of this thread, to help you deal with this woman at your work. Per the norm, it somehow turned into a little zoo lol

Good luck in however you decide to handle it.

Lisa

Thanks Lisa, I think I got some good ideas and support here. Also, if nothing else, it felt good to get the frustration out with people who have an idea of what I am talking about and how it feels. I am one of those people that tries to see the good in all people. Its not to say I'm perfect and don't slip, but I honestly try. If I hear an arab bash on America then I defend it. For instance, when I was visiting some of my husband's cousins the conversation turned to politics and the US. Of course they are Iraqi and living as refugees just trying to survive so I really understand they aren't going to be very happy. Yet I took me "okay" arabic and told them all about our health care issues here in the US. By the end of the conversation they were feeling sorry for American's! lol, just telling them how much it costs to have a baby without insurance here blew their minds.

On another note, I get tired of hearing people bash on the Iraqi people and say Americans would never act like them in time of war or disaster. Iraqis are doing the best they can while living in constant violence, limited electricity and contaminated water. Even going to work is taking your life into your hands and thousands have died from doing that alone. Then I point out how things turned in New Orleans after Katrina. Lawlessness can happen anywhere under the right circumstances and it is not on us to judge until we live through it. Just like those kids we see begging on the streets over in the middle east, take a look at our past and during the depression. Parents were doing the same thing with their kids. We just live better right now so you rarely see it (or at least for the moment).

I do believe Americans are the most giving and helpful (on the whole). We are raised with the idea of helping others and giving from the time we can walk and talk. It isn't even just a "Christian" thing. I've had athiest friends help me out in a time of need. In fact, if you look at some mosques around the US, they are helping out with habitat for humanity, health clinics, food drives, etc. I like to think "helping" is an American thing and has little to do with religion. Many churches will certainly help you, but there are some that don't really help so much. Also, I can't tell you how many Iraqis have done their best to help me while trying to get my husband here. They give me the best advice they can, I have been given free food, some of the women (including the Iraqi woman I mentioned before) has been a shoulder to cry on when I got frustrated with waiting for my husband. I believe there is good everywhere if you just look for it. Yet sometimes we do have to face the bad as that was the case in my original post for this thread. It isn't going to turn me against all the other arabs out there. I think we have to judge everyone on an individual basis and only was we are well informed.

You know I've learned to love Iraqis!!!! The first Muslim I ever talked to who made what I consideree to be real dawah-meaning not forced and he was just being himself and he did not even discuss Islam with me at all. He was just naturally a nice guy and he treated me ewll and I thougth to myself "He is not like the Muslims on tv". Of course the more I got into Islam and got around them all, I learned there really are Muslims like on tv:) But this guy he was so nice. We talked at the beginning of the Iraq war online as he was still in baghdad. But then he came up missing for 7 months. Even though there was no love thing or anything like that going on between us, I learned to care about someone who was not from my culture...in a platonical way of course. I was relieved to know he resurfaced in another country!!!

Did your husband ever have to wrok in a "danger znoe"? Or how do people deal with it? Like you have to go to work, but then if you go to work, you risk being shot. And those people are persistent when they really wanna shoot someone! I need to talk to more women in war zones actually cuz I have to get used that that idea of being shot:(

[S and S 12]

S and S,

I hope you got something out of this thread, to help you deal with this woman at your work. Per the norm, it somehow turned into a little zoo lol

Good luck in however you decide to handle it.

Lisa

Thanks Lisa, I think I got some good ideas and support here. Also, if nothing else, it felt good to get the frustration out with people who have an idea of what I am talking about and how it feels. I am one of those people that tries to see the good in all people. Its not to say I'm perfect and don't slip, but I honestly try. If I hear an arab bash on America then I defend it. For instance, when I was visiting some of my husband's cousins the conversation turned to politics and the US. Of course they are Iraqi and living as refugees just trying to survive so I really understand they aren't going to be very happy. Yet I took me "okay" arabic and told them all about our health care issues here in the US. By the end of the conversation they were feeling sorry for American's! lol, just telling them how much it costs to have a baby without insurance here blew their minds.

On another note, I get tired of hearing people bash on the Iraqi people and say Americans would never act like them in time of war or disaster. Iraqis are doing the best they can while living in constant violence, limited electricity and contaminated water. Even going to work is taking your life into your hands and thousands have died from doing that alone. Then I point out how things turned in New Orleans after Katrina. Lawlessness can happen anywhere under the right circumstances and it is not on us to judge until we live through it. Just like those kids we see begging on the streets over in the middle east, take a look at our past and during the depression. Parents were doing the same thing with their kids. We just live better right now so you rarely see it (or at least for the moment).

I do believe Americans are the most giving and helpful (on the whole). We are raised with the idea of helping others and giving from the time we can walk and talk. It isn't even just a "Christian" thing. I've had athiest friends help me out in a time of need. In fact, if you look at some mosques around the US, they are helping out with habitat for humanity, health clinics, food drives, etc. I like to think "helping" is an American thing and has little to do with religion. Many churches will certainly help you, but there are some that don't really help so much. Also, I can't tell you how many Iraqis have done their best to help me while trying to get my husband here. They give me the best advice they can, I have been given free food, some of the women (including the Iraqi woman I mentioned before) has been a shoulder to cry on when I got frustrated with waiting for my husband. I believe there is good everywhere if you just look for it. Yet sometimes we do have to face the bad as that was the case in my original post for this thread. It isn't going to turn me against all the other arabs out there. I think we have to judge everyone on an individual basis and only was we are well informed.

You know I've learned to love Iraqis!!!! The first Muslim I ever talked to who made what I consideree to be real dawah-meaning not forced and he was just being himself and he did not even discuss Islam with me at all. He was just naturally a nice guy and he treated me ewll and I thougth to myself "He is not like the Muslims on tv". Of course the more I got into Islam and got around them all, I learned there really are Muslims like on tv:) But this guy he was so nice. We talked at the beginning of the Iraq war online as he was still in baghdad. But then he came up missing for 7 months. Even though there was no love thing or anything like that going on between us, I learned to care about someone who was not from my culture...in a platonical way of course. I was relieved to know he resurfaced in another country!!!

Did your husband ever have to wrok in a "danger znoe"? Or how do people deal with it? Like you have to go to work, but then if you go to work, you risk being shot. And those people are persistent when they really wanna shoot someone! I need to talk to more women in war zones actually cuz I have to get used that that idea of being shot:(

My husband lived in Baghdad for the first few years of the war, but he only mentions small things here and there. Honestly, you can tell it bothers him to talk about it. He has mentioned a couple things like you get used to passing by dead bodies on the street right after an explosion or shooting. Eventually and hopefully, the family will collect the body so not much you can do. He talked about how numb you get to it all. For instance he told me about seeing one store owner that calmly cleaned someone's brains off his store sign shortly after an explosion. Cleaning such things off your store front becomes a regular thing you don't think about much after awhile. My husband says you just have to deal with it because it happens over and over. Freaking out or going crazy isn't going to help you as you have to life your life somehow. You try to be cautious and careful and limit your exposure to danger, but sitting in your house all the time for years gets old so sometimes you just risk it to get out.