American women vs Arab women raising children

[ginny20 0]

in a thread about how crappy it is for this woman s&s knows to say a bunch of garbage about american women, it's equally ####### for anyone to turn around and say this kind of stuff. i don't see how any reasonable person can "crack up" over it. not that this kind of rubbish isn't par for the course around here.

Please explain, I am sooooooooooooooooo confused I ride the short bus.

The OP is basically a compaint, justified imho, that someone was bashing Americans, but the point above is that in turn bashing Arabs not only doesn't solve the problem it's doing the same thing as the woman in the OP did. It's not really funny either. Was the woman wrong? Of course! Should the OP have to apologize merely due to her age? Oh heck no! Is it justified to bash all Arabs because of this one ignoramus? Oh heck no!

That's it in a nutshell I think.

I agree this rant against Arab women is racist and highly offensive (more so than the Syrian woman's comments, which are pretty bad). Especially because it contributes to dangerous and untrue stereotypes about Arabs (and by association Muslims) in a public forum that would seem to be especially against such a thing. These stereotypes (that Arab culture is backwards, oppresses mindless women, and is inferior) , and the immigration policies based on them to some extent, are why many of us suffer through an extra difficult visa process. Not to mention the great violence perpetrated against Arabs by our government, which is also implicitly supported by these stereotypes . I'm surprised people haven't responded more vigorously to this. I think if the same thing were said about Jewish women or African American women, there would be a lot more outcry (which would be the correct response, of course!) It's quite disturbing to me that racist discourse, which is not accepted with any other racial or ethnic group, seems to be OK to use when it comes to Arabs in the United States, even in such a seemingly MENA friendly place!

[Simply_Uno 1]

wow, I see this has taken a turrrrnn (feel free to choose the direction).

I, personally, did not see the aforementioned comments as racist, which is why I, personallly, did not speak out. and maybe I am wrong, but I think the person that said they "cracked-up" was probably referring to the way the writer of said commemts "snapped-off!!" not that she was being racist at all. and again, I, personally, tend to keep things in perspective of context and not misconstrue the meaning or intent. just my .011111 cents worth.

just something worth considering .

[ginny20 0]

Sorry, I think I posted this incorrectly. I was referring to the comments from yesterday, namely: "You dont see ANY imaginative discovery or inventions coming out of the arab world right now", "Its not like the ALL ABOUT ME arabic culture where people become slaves to THEIR INTERPRETAION OF RELIGION.", and "their lack of personailty, independence, their pettiness and materialism and lack of ANY KIND OF INTELLECTUAL capacity, we would all have a field day. I told my mom the only time I ever get along with my husband is if I talk to him like hes either 3 or mentally disabled. If I ever spoke with any kind of normal authoratative tone in my voice like American men, some of these guys get disturbed. I found alot of these women to be whiney, self centered, immature, selfish, materialistic and gossipy," which I found personally very offensive.

I'm sorry to change the tone, but I think this kind of language is very dangerous in any context for the reasons I stated above. Again, I think if this were directed towards other racial/ethnic groups people would be more horrified, but maybe I'm wrong. I haven't lived in the US for several years.

[Simply_Uno 1]

Sorry, I think I posted this incorrectly. I was referring to the comments from yesterday, namely: "You dont see ANY imaginative discovery or inventions coming out of the arab world right now", "Its not like the ALL ABOUT ME arabic culture where people become slaves to THEIR INTERPRETAION OF RELIGION.", and "their lack of personailty, independence, their pettiness and materialism and lack of ANY KIND OF INTELLECTUAL capacity, we would all have a field day. I told my mom the only time I ever get along with my husband is if I talk to him like hes either 3 or mentally disabled. If I ever spoke with any kind of normal authoratative tone in my voice like American men, some of these guys get disturbed. I found alot of these women to be whiney, self centered, immature, selfish, materialistic and gossipy," which I found personally very offensive.

I'm sorry to change the tone, but I think this kind of language is very dangerous in any context for the reasons I stated above. Again, I think if this were directed towards other racial/ethnic groups people would be more horrified, but maybe I'm wrong. I haven't lived in the US for several years.

Oh, wehhellhellll, dat therrre is a horse of another color.

Respect is a 2 way street and no one likes to be demeaned, dehumanized or belittled no matter what your culture/nationality is.

And that, I can see your perspective on .

[morocco4ever 63]

Sorry, I think I posted this incorrectly. I was referring to the comments from yesterday, namely: "You dont see ANY imaginative discovery or inventions coming out of the arab world right now", "Its not like the ALL ABOUT ME arabic culture where people become slaves to THEIR INTERPRETAION OF RELIGION.", and "their lack of personailty, independence, their pettiness and materialism and lack of ANY KIND OF INTELLECTUAL capacity, we would all have a field day. I told my mom the only time I ever get along with my husband is if I talk to him like hes either 3 or mentally disabled. If I ever spoke with any kind of normal authoratative tone in my voice like American men, some of these guys get disturbed. I found alot of these women to be whiney, self centered, immature, selfish, materialistic and gossipy," which I found personally very offensive.

I'm sorry to change the tone, but I think this kind of language is very dangerous in any context for the reasons I stated above. Again, I think if this were directed towards other racial/ethnic groups people would be more horrified, but maybe I'm wrong. I haven't lived in the US for several years.

Only the poster of that could explain what she meant, but I suspect it was more or less meant to be a sarcastic comment.

To Uno, thank you for understanding the intent of my amusement.

[sandinista! 1,816]

Sorry, I think I posted this incorrectly. I was referring to the comments from yesterday, namely: "You dont see ANY imaginative discovery or inventions coming out of the arab world right now", "Its not like the ALL ABOUT ME arabic culture where people become slaves to THEIR INTERPRETAION OF RELIGION.", and "their lack of personailty, independence, their pettiness and materialism and lack of ANY KIND OF INTELLECTUAL capacity, we would all have a field day. I told my mom the only time I ever get along with my husband is if I talk to him like hes either 3 or mentally disabled. If I ever spoke with any kind of normal authoratative tone in my voice like American men, some of these guys get disturbed. I found alot of these women to be whiney, self centered, immature, selfish, materialistic and gossipy," which I found personally very offensive.

I'm sorry to change the tone, but I think this kind of language is very dangerous in any context for the reasons I stated above. Again, I think if this were directed towards other racial/ethnic groups people would be more horrified, but maybe I'm wrong. I haven't lived in the US for several years.

Only the poster of that could explain what she meant, but I suspect it was more or less meant to be a sarcastic comment.

To Uno, thank you for understanding the intent of my amusement.

nonsense. you know full well the long established history she has of bashing arabs, especially women. it goes way, way back.

[S and S 12]

Sorry, I think I posted this incorrectly. I was referring to the comments from yesterday, namely: "You dont see ANY imaginative discovery or inventions coming out of the arab world right now", "Its not like the ALL ABOUT ME arabic culture where people become slaves to THEIR INTERPRETAION OF RELIGION.", and "their lack of personailty, independence, their pettiness and materialism and lack of ANY KIND OF INTELLECTUAL capacity, we would all have a field day. I told my mom the only time I ever get along with my husband is if I talk to him like hes either 3 or mentally disabled. If I ever spoke with any kind of normal authoratative tone in my voice like American men, some of these guys get disturbed. I found alot of these women to be whiney, self centered, immature, selfish, materialistic and gossipy," which I found personally very offensive.

I'm sorry to change the tone, but I think this kind of language is very dangerous in any context for the reasons I stated above. Again, I think if this were directed towards other racial/ethnic groups people would be more horrified, but maybe I'm wrong. I haven't lived in the US for several years.

I have to agree when you look at these words, it is stereotyping and is no better than what the Syrian woman said to me. It is good to point this out so everyone can remember to see both sides. You can never group all people into the above mentioned description. Are there people in the middle east like this? Yes, there are, but certainly not all or most of them. My sister in law is a doctor and works hard in her profession. She certainly doesn't sit on her butt. My mother in law was a teacher full time and managed to raise 7 children while working in this career. I have nothing but respect for her. There are some hard working middle eastern women and some that just stay at home. Every case is different.

There are women in this country that are like the Syrian woman described in my original post and I tried to tell her she cannot say ALL American women are like this. Let us not group all arabs into one category with a derogatory description. Its like the pot calling the kettle black. Sometimes we don't realize what we are saying is disrespectful, but once it is pointed out to you, the right thing to do is admit it, apologize and avoid doing it again. I think that is all we can ask for. None of use are perfect. At some point we will offend someone, but there is a way to be mature about how we handle it.

[morocco4ever 63]

Sorry, I think I posted this incorrectly. I was referring to the comments from yesterday, namely: "You dont see ANY imaginative discovery or inventions coming out of the arab world right now", "Its not like the ALL ABOUT ME arabic culture where people become slaves to THEIR INTERPRETAION OF RELIGION.", and "their lack of personailty, independence, their pettiness and materialism and lack of ANY KIND OF INTELLECTUAL capacity, we would all have a field day. I told my mom the only time I ever get along with my husband is if I talk to him like hes either 3 or mentally disabled. If I ever spoke with any kind of normal authoratative tone in my voice like American men, some of these guys get disturbed. I found alot of these women to be whiney, self centered, immature, selfish, materialistic and gossipy," which I found personally very offensive.

I'm sorry to change the tone, but I think this kind of language is very dangerous in any context for the reasons I stated above. Again, I think if this were directed towards other racial/ethnic groups people would be more horrified, but maybe I'm wrong. I haven't lived in the US for several years.

Only the poster of that could explain what she meant, but I suspect it was more or less meant to be a sarcastic comment.

To Uno, thank you for understanding the intent of my amusement.

nonsense. you know full well the long established history she has of bashing arabs, especially women. it goes way, way back.

Maybe you aren't aware of this, but when it comes to flaming threads I pretty much stay out when it comes to VJ.

But keep in mind, sometimes people just choose to keep their mouths shut when the read something offensive. People have their minds set on what is and isn't appropriate to say. I don't think that what I say here is going to change someones mind about how they feel.

A good example would be the thread for Henia. I felt what you said to Henia was totally inappropriate, although you were just trying to help. I didn't voice my opinion on that particular thread for the reason that Henia is going through enough, and shouldn't have to deal with yet another flame war in the midst of what she is going through. I may be wrong, but I suspect that there were others here on VJ that thought you comment was offensive. I don't think my opinion would have changed that you feel it was totally appropriate. Am I wrong? If I spoke up would it made you think twice about how you worded it? If I am wrong I will certainly apologize.

[S and S 12]

Sorry, I think I posted this incorrectly. I was referring to the comments from yesterday, namely: "You dont see ANY imaginative discovery or inventions coming out of the arab world right now", "Its not like the ALL ABOUT ME arabic culture where people become slaves to THEIR INTERPRETAION OF RELIGION.", and "their lack of personailty, independence, their pettiness and materialism and lack of ANY KIND OF INTELLECTUAL capacity, we would all have a field day. I told my mom the only time I ever get along with my husband is if I talk to him like hes either 3 or mentally disabled. If I ever spoke with any kind of normal authoratative tone in my voice like American men, some of these guys get disturbed. I found alot of these women to be whiney, self centered, immature, selfish, materialistic and gossipy," which I found personally very offensive.

I'm sorry to change the tone, but I think this kind of language is very dangerous in any context for the reasons I stated above. Again, I think if this were directed towards other racial/ethnic groups people would be more horrified, but maybe I'm wrong. I haven't lived in the US for several years.

Only the poster of that could explain what she meant, but I suspect it was more or less meant to be a sarcastic comment.

To Uno, thank you for understanding the intent of my amusement.

nonsense. you know full well the long established history she has of bashing arabs, especially women. it goes way, way back.

Maybe you aren't aware of this, but when it comes to flaming threads I pretty much stay out when it comes to VJ.

But keep in mind, sometimes people just choose to keep their mouths shut when the read something offensive. People have their minds set on what is and isn't appropriate to say. I don't think that what I say here is going to change someones mind about how they feel.

A good example would be the thread for Henia. I felt what you said to Henia was totally inappropriate, although you were just trying to help. I didn't voice my opinion on that particular thread for the reason that Henia is going through enough, and shouldn't have to deal with yet another flame war in the midst of what she is going through. I may be wrong, but I suspect that there were others here on VJ that thought you comment was offensive. I don't think my opinion would have changed that you feel it was totally appropriate. Am I wrong? If I spoke up would it made you think twice about how you worded it? If I am wrong I will certainly apologize.

I have to agree with you on that one. I let some things go with some people if I know they are going through a lot. No point in making them feel worse. Could just be they are stressed out and not thinking properly. It is better to correct someone gently or ask them to clarify than all out attack them before knowing what they meant.

[Der Bücherwurm 1]

Personally, I think this thread shows that too many Arabs/muslims are immigrating to the west for the wrong reasons. Wanting to make more money in the US or wanting to take advantage of the welfare system in Europe is not a valid ground for immigration. Immigration is not a right it is a privilege! And privileges have to be earned. If you have no desire to assimilate to the culture of the country that you chose to move to then you have no right to stay. If you want to wear an abaya and live like a ME muslim then you should stay in the ME. I think it should be far harder for muslims to immigrate to the west as the majority refuse to assimilate and insult those that were generous enough to allow them the privilege of living in their country. We have as much right to maintain our more advanced and egalitarian standard of living as you do to retain your old-fashioned way of life. After all, if islam and the ME is so great then why are you trying to leave it? I'm getting sick of Arabs whine about the prejudice they experience in the west when the extremely mild difficulties they face in the west are nothing compared to what foreigners/non-muslims suffer in the ME. You can smell the hypocrisy coming off the average arab from a mile away. And I think Hanginginthere's description is a pretty mild and tame depiction of the average Arab, not all of them; but the average and it wasn't racist, it was pretty accurate. Only when you say All rather than some, average or most is there a problem. Sometimes pointing out the truth of what the average person in a culture behaves like hurts. And that is what we are pointing out here, the average; not all. And when individuals or whole societies refuse to admit their faults then they are doomed to continue those faults.

[me_4_musa 1]

I'm getting sick of Arabs whine about the prejudice they experience in the west when the extremely mild difficulties they face in the west are nothing compared to what foreigners/non-muslims suffer in the ME.

Suffering??? I’m not suffering. There’s a lot of foreigners/non-muslims that live here and I doubt they are suffering, in fact most of us/them don’t want to leave! We are spoiled by the gracious generosity and hospitality that’s provided to us by people who live here. I haven’t met one foreigner living in Jerusalem or Palestinian Territories who’s described their stay as suffering.

Did you travel to the mid east and suffer?

[doodlebugg 10]

Personally, I think this thread shows that too many Arabs/muslims are immigrating to the west for the wrong reasons.

How exactly does this thread show that? This thread is about a woman from the middle east who stated that Americans leave their babies crying at night. Am I missing something?

If you want to wear an abaya and live like a ME muslim then you should stay in the ME.

Where in our laws does it state that no one is allowed to wear an abaya? Does the USA now have a dresscode?

I think it should be far harder for muslims to immigrate to the west as the majority refuse to assimilate and insult those that were generous enough to allow them the privilege of living in their country.

So we should base our immigration system on religion now? What religion is your husband?

After all, if islam and the ME is so great then why are you trying to leave it?

So let me get this straight.....if you immigrate to the USA you are leaving Islam? Is that a new immigration rule?

And that is what we are pointing out here, the average; not all.

Please explain...who is this "we" you refer to?

[ginny20 0]

I'm getting sick of Arabs whine about the prejudice they experience in the west when the extremely mild difficulties they face in the west are nothing compared to what foreigners/non-muslims suffer in the ME.

Suffering??? I’m not suffering. There’s a lot of foreigners/non-muslims that live here and I doubt they are suffering, in fact most of us/them don’t want to leave! We are spoiled by the gracious generosity and hospitality that’s provided to us by people who live here. I haven’t met one foreigner living in Jerusalem or Palestinian Territories who’s described their stay as suffering.

Did you travel to the mid east and suffer?

I agree with you. In Morocco (having lived here for four years), Westerners are consistently treated better than Moroccans by the government and other Moroccans. People show extraordinary hospitality towards foreigners most of the time and 95% of both ex-pats and tourists that I've met have been very impressed by people here and how they are treated. That's not to say that it isn't difficult and frustrating at times to live abroad. I think any time someone is displaced outside of their cultural and ethical comfort zone-it's emotionally hard to deal with that.

[doodlebugg 10]

I'm getting sick of Arabs whine about the prejudice they experience in the west when the extremely mild difficulties they face in the west are nothing compared to what foreigners/non-muslims suffer in the ME.

Suffering??? I’m not suffering. There’s a lot of foreigners/non-muslims that live here and I doubt they are suffering, in fact most of us/them don’t want to leave! We are spoiled by the gracious generosity and hospitality that’s provided to us by people who live here. I haven’t met one foreigner living in Jerusalem or Palestinian Territories who’s described their stay as suffering.

Did you travel to the mid east and suffer?

I agree with you. In Morocco (having lived here for four years), Westerners are consistently treated better than Moroccans by the government and other Moroccans. People show extraordinary hospitality towards foreigners most of the time and 95% of both ex-pats and tourists that I've met have been very impressed by people here and how they are treated. That's not to say that it isn't difficult and frustrating at times to live abroad. I think any time someone is displaced outside of their cultural and ethical comfort zone-it's emotionally hard to deal with that.

The only reason I'd go back to Cairo is the people. I have never met a more welcoming group of people in my entire life!

[Aymsgirl 0]

I'm getting sick of Arabs whine about the prejudice they experience in the west when the extremely mild difficulties they face in the west are nothing compared to what foreigners/non-muslims suffer in the ME.

Suffering??? I’m not suffering. There’s a lot of foreigners/non-muslims that live here and I doubt they are suffering, in fact most of us/them don’t want to leave! We are spoiled by the gracious generosity and hospitality that’s provided to us by people who live here. I haven’t met one foreigner living in Jerusalem or Palestinian Territories who’s described their stay as suffering.

Did you travel to the mid east and suffer?

I agree with you. In Morocco (having lived here for four years), Westerners are consistently treated better than Moroccans by the government and other Moroccans. People show extraordinary hospitality towards foreigners most of the time and 95% of both ex-pats and tourists that I've met have been very impressed by people here and how they are treated. That's not to say that it isn't difficult and frustrating at times to live abroad. I think any time someone is displaced outside of their cultural and ethical comfort zone-it's emotionally hard to deal with that.

The only reason I'd go back to Cairo is the people. I have never met a more welcoming group of people in my entire life!

I agree with you Bridget! Egypt has some of the most welcoming people..always wanting to feed you, have tea or coffee with you and most were just so gracious.

So far, my husband hasn't dealt with any prejudice here in the West unless it had to do with getting a job and even at that he never complained it was myself complaining about it.