American women vs Arab women raising children

[amal 4]

well if she was talking about americans..she was talking about herself too cuz she is living in america. Unless she means "native" americans . Why do so many people hate on penticostals? Is it like what alot of people do against muslim's and other religons? Sounds like she was blowing off pent up emotions/anger and you were there so became the victim of it. I watched my son and daughter fighting once where, my daughter was PMSing and she went on a tangent about like 5 things in a row while my son just stood there in shock at the attack....when she said all she could she waited for his retaliation and he just said "wow" and no one knew what to say LOL it pretty much said everything...he did not agree and he did not defend, he just said "wow"

Oh no, you know what topped it all off? The Iraqi woman told me that since the Syrian woman is older than me (by like maybe 5 or 6 years) that it is my duty to apologize to her. She said in middle eastern culture the younger person always apologizes to the older one. I said, well guess what? This is America and the person who is wrong is the one who should apologize. They seriously didn't see what the problem was. They just said basically that all American women are bad mothers and I'm supposed to not get upset?

BTW, she doesn't have citizenship yet, but I did think about the fact her little daughter is an American now. She should think about that!

No idea why they trash on Pentacostals. I don't necessarily agree with the practices, but it is harmless and has the best of intentions. If you don't like someone trashing your religion then you shouldn't trash on others, you are totally right.

*snarl* Yeah, I'dda been mad too. In their countries, the younger person apologises wether wrong or not....but this is America..sorry! Sounds like she may need to remove her head from her rump but that'll never happen if she's even an inkling as hard headed as el'hubster'o'mine. I'd stay away from her at all costs. She's evil.

[Simply_Uno 1]

First, I was already annoyed at this woman because I mentioned my mother's family is Pentecostal. Now, I am not, but I respect the fact my mother's family is entitled to their beliefs. My mother was never really into it and usually we went to a Babtist church, lol. Anyway, this woman tells me that the Pentacostal religion is evil and against God, and goes on and on about how horrible it is.

OOOh, okay, lemme get my bearings. I am Pentecostal (UPCI to be exact) and these are our doctrines : http://www.upci.org/doctrine/apostles.asp#Scene_1

so have her to chew on that and get fat.

moving on.

Then she starts in on how she has seen American women ignore their babies when they are crying for hours at night. She goes on and on about how horrible these mothers are for doing that and how could they just ignore their babies and shut them up in rooms. I mean she is really insulting women who do this and making them sound horrible.

I'm not sure if this http://geoparent.com/family/techniques/stopwhining.htm

parenting technique is what she is criticizing, but some proponents claim it works while others disagree. I do know of other parenting techniques that are similar which are in use for infants one of them is the "crying down" technique and the other is the "controlled crying" method. Both of these methods have negative reputations in the bleeding hearts community. It is not ABUSE or NEGLECT. They are methods to retrain your child. If that is what she is speaking of, then she needs to gain understanding of the society that she is currently living in and readjust her thinking.

I know, easier said than done. But if she is truly being an a$$, then leave her to her own vices.

Finally I blow up on her and tell her how dare she insult all Americans this way.

I tell her she knows nothing about American mothers and has no right to say such disrespectful things.

I stomped out of the room and refused to answer her calling my name.

I knew if I turned around I would have hit her.

I was told later she started crying and wailing about how rude I was to her and that no one ever talked to her like that before. {Too Damn Bad}

You don't insult all American women on purpose in front of an American woman and think you can get away with it.

There was an Iraqi woman in the room who talked to me later and tried to say this woman didn't mean it that way,

well if she was talking about americans..she was talking about herself too cuz she is living in america. Unless she means "native" americans . Why do so many people hate on penticostals? Is it like what alot of people do against muslim's and other religons? Sounds like she was blowing off pent up emotions/anger and you were there so became the victim of it. I watched my son and daughter fighting once where, my daughter was PMSing and she went on a tangent about like 5 things in a row while my son just stood there in shock at the attack....when she said all she could she waited for his retaliation and he just said "wow" and no one knew what to say LOL it pretty much said everything...he did not agree and he did not defend, he just said "wow"

Oh no, you know what topped it all off? The Iraqi woman told me that since the Syrian woman is older than me (by like maybe 5 or 6 years) that it is my duty to apologize to her.

{Like hell it is, disrespect and respect is a two way street, age exclusive}

She said in middle eastern culture {when in rome... } the younger person always apologizes to the older one. I said, well guess what?

This is America and the person who is wrong is the one who should apologize.

They seriously didn't see what the problem was. They just said basically that all American women are bad mothers and I'm supposed to not get upset?

BTW, she doesn't have citizenship yet, but I did think about the fact her little daughter is an American now. She should think about that!

No idea why they trash on Pentacostals. I don't necessarily agree with the practices, but it is harmless and has the best of intentions.

{yes, we do, as with all religious practices and thank you for putting that out there}

If you don't like someone trashing your religion then you shouldn't trash on others, you are totally right.

okay, I'm done

UNO

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Okay, there is this Syrian woman at work who I had an argument with a little while back. There is still tension between us about this and I wanted everyone's opinion since we have American and arab women here who can contribute and tell me if I overreacted.

First, I was already annoyed at this woman because I mentioned my mother's family is Pentecostal. Now, I am not, but I respect the fact my mother's family is entitled to their beliefs. My mother was never really into it and usually we went to a Babtist church, lol. Anyway, this woman tells me that the Pentacostal religion is evil and against God, and goes on and on about how horrible it is. I am thinking to myself that she complains how people don't keep an open mind about Islam and then she insults my family's religion? I try to make her see reason and that my mother's family does not intend evil or anything bad, it is just their beliefs, but this woman refuses to hear anything I say. I let it go as I don't want to argue about it further.

Then she starts in on how she has seen American women ignore their babies when they are crying for hours at night. She goes on and on about how horrible these mothers are for doing that and how could they just ignore their babies and shut them up in rooms. I mean she is really insulting women who do this and making them sound horrible. I don't say anything yet, but then she states this is "The American Way". I say no, this is not, some women do this, but certainly not all. I think I've known one woman my whole life who did this. Yet this woman keeps telling me how it is done by all Americans. I tell her no, that my family and friends never did that. They would never think to leave a baby crying for hours on end. So this woman tells me my family must be the only ones. I couldn't believe it. I tried and tried to get her to just admit this is some women and not all. Remember she said how awful women are for doing this so I am now getting extremely angry because this means she just insulted every American woman and called them bad mothers. So I start arguing with her and then she is rude and points out I don't have children so I can't say anything. This coming from a woman that knows how badly I want to have a baby. She says I can't know about raising children because I don't have any. That I can't know what women in this country do? I've been here for 28 years, I think I know more than she does about how women handle their babies in this country. I was a live-in babysitter for two summers as a teenager and had plenty of opportunities to see how these families handled their babies. Not to mention seeing how my family took care of theirs.

Finally I blow up on her and tell her how dare she insult all Americans this way. I tell her I can't listen to her anymore and that her words make me sick. I tell her she knows nothing about American mothers and has no right to say such disrespectful things. Now keep in mind I am yelling at her to her face. I stomped out of the room and refused to answer her calling my name. I knew if I turned around I would have hit her. I was told later she started crying and wailing about how rude I was to her and that no one ever talked to her like that before. I don't care. You don't insult all American women on purpose in front of an American woman and think you can get away with it. There was an Iraqi woman in the room who talked to me later and tried to say this woman didn't mean it that way, but I don't see what other way she could have meant it.

Anyway, feedback would be greatly appreciated. I honestly don't know how to deal with this woman when I see her now.

First, Be very very very glad I wasnt there. Youd have more than a miffed Iraqi to deal with . You would have an enraged mother with her hands around this arab womans neck. First, Americans raise their children to be givers and doers. You dont see ANY imaginative discovery or inventions coming out of the arab world right now. American women raise their children with IMAGINATION and to give to others. Its part of our ethic, the charitable American ethic. American children are raised from the time they can think to donate, to share, to give and be part of a wider community. Our children are tied to other children here like a big village. American children collect for unicef, give their hair to kids with cancer. They raise money for their schools. We have a group conscience. From the minute we are born here in the US, everyone rejoices along with us.. People donate money so kids can go on trips. Its not like the ALL ABOUT ME arabic culture where people become slaves to THEIR INTERPRETAION OF RELIGION.

If a woman follows all the rules in arabic culture, they still can end up divorced and children there are like a status symbol for the mom. Some of these women the only hold they have on having an identity is having a child. Apologise to this bimbo? Oh hell no. Fly me up there so I can strangle her. And dont think I wont. I lost a child to heart failure/sids and I loved that baby. The things that arabs have said to me about his short life have made me want to strangle every last one of them. American women have to WORK. They cant sit around on their flabby asses pointing out the faults in others. We have to work and pay bills and our taxes so whores like that can immigrate here and criticise us. Yes you have a right to be enraged. No you dont have to be nice.

Word to the wise. I know your husband is Iraqi and you are trying to BLEND and hang out with these women. But please for the love of god, and you know me S and S, get some American girl friends. You need it to counter the dumb things that these wenches say.

Oh and every body , please forgive me. I am in grieving. Tell the Iraqi that when I am strangling her Syrian friend

[Simply_Uno 1]

First, Be very very very glad I wasnt there.

Youd have more than a miffed Iraqi to deal with .

You would have an enraged mother with her hands around this arab womans neck.

First, Americans raise their children to be givers and doers. You dont see ANY imaginative discovery or inventions coming out of the arab world right now. American women raise their children with IMAGINATION and to give to others. Its part of our ethic, the charitable American ethic. American children are raised from the time they can think to donate, to share, to give and be part of a wider community. Our children are tied to other children here like a big village. American children collect for unicef, give their hair to kids with cancer. They raise money for their schools. We have a group conscience. From the minute we are born here in the US, everyone rejoices along with us.. People donate money so kids can go on trips. Its not like the ALL ABOUT ME arabic culture where people become slaves to THEIR INTERPRETAION OF RELIGION.

If a woman follows all the rules in arabic culture, they still can end up divorced and children there are like a status symbol for the mom. Some of these women the only hold they have on having an identity is having a child.

Apologise to this bimbo? Oh hell no. Fly me up there so I can strangle her.

And dont think I wont.

I lost a child to heart failure/sids and I loved that baby. The things that arabs have said to me about his short life have made me want to strangle every last one of them. American women have to WORK.

They cant sit around on their flabby asses pointing out the faults in others.

We have to work and pay bills and our taxes so whores like that can immigrate here and criticise us. Yes you have a right to be enraged. No you dont have to be nice.

Word to the wise. I know your husband is Iraqi and you are trying to BLEND and hang out with these women. But please for the love of god, and you know me S and S, get some American girl friends. You need it to counter the dumb things that these wenches say.

Oh and every body , please forgive me. I am in grieving. Tell the Iraqi that when I am strangling her Syrian friend

all is forgiven beloved , and eeeasssy killah

UNO

[Simply_Uno 1]

First, Be very very very glad I wasnt there.

Youd have more than a miffed Iraqi to deal with .

You would have an enraged mother with her hands around this arab womans neck.

First, Americans raise their children to be givers and doers. You dont see ANY imaginative discovery or inventions coming out of the arab world right now. American women raise their children with IMAGINATION and to give to others. Its part of our ethic, the charitable American ethic. American children are raised from the time they can think to donate, to share, to give and be part of a wider community. Our children are tied to other children here like a big village. American children collect for unicef, give their hair to kids with cancer. They raise money for their schools. We have a group conscience. From the minute we are born here in the US, everyone rejoices along with us.. People donate money so kids can go on trips. Its not like the ALL ABOUT ME arabic culture where people become slaves to THEIR INTERPRETAION OF RELIGION.

If a woman follows all the rules in arabic culture, they still can end up divorced and children there are like a status symbol for the mom. Some of these women the only hold they have on having an identity is having a child.

Apologise to this bimbo? Oh hell no. Fly me up there so I can strangle her.

And dont think I wont.

I lost a child to heart failure/sids and I loved that baby. The things that arabs have said to me about his short life have made me want to strangle every last one of them. American women have to WORK.

They cant sit around on their flabby asses pointing out the faults in others.

We have to work and pay bills and our taxes so whores like that can immigrate here and criticise us. Yes you have a right to be enraged. No you dont have to be nice.

Word to the wise. I know your husband is Iraqi and you are trying to BLEND and hang out with these women. But please for the love of god, and you know me S and S, get some American girl friends. You need it to counter the dumb things that these wenches say.

Oh and every body , please forgive me. I am in grieving. Tell the Iraqi that when I am strangling her Syrian friend

all is forgiven beloved , and eeeasssy killah

UNO

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Okay, there is this Syrian woman at work who I had an argument with a little while back. There is still tension between us about this and I wanted everyone's opinion since we have American and arab women here who can contribute and tell me if I overreacted.

First, I was already annoyed at this woman because I mentioned my mother's family is Pentecostal. Now, I am not, but I respect the fact my mother's family is entitled to their beliefs. My mother was never really into it and usually we went to a Babtist church, lol. Anyway, this woman tells me that the Pentacostal religion is evil and against God, and goes on and on about how horrible it is. I am thinking to myself that she complains how people don't keep an open mind about Islam and then she insults my family's religion? I try to make her see reason and that my mother's family does not intend evil or anything bad, it is just their beliefs, but this woman refuses to hear anything I say. I let it go as I don't want to argue about it further.

Then she starts in on how she has seen American women ignore their babies when they are crying for hours at night. She goes on and on about how horrible these mothers are for doing that and how could they just ignore their babies and shut them up in rooms. I mean she is really insulting women who do this and making them sound horrible. I don't say anything yet, but then she states this is "The American Way". I say no, this is not, some women do this, but certainly not all. I think I've known one woman my whole life who did this. Yet this woman keeps telling me how it is done by all Americans. I tell her no, that my family and friends never did that. They would never think to leave a baby crying for hours on end. So this woman tells me my family must be the only ones. I couldn't believe it. I tried and tried to get her to just admit this is some women and not all. Remember she said how awful women are for doing this so I am now getting extremely angry because this means she just insulted every American woman and called them bad mothers. So I start arguing with her and then she is rude and points out I don't have children so I can't say anything. This coming from a woman that knows how badly I want to have a baby. She says I can't know about raising children because I don't have any. That I can't know what women in this country do? I've been here for 28 years, I think I know more than she does about how women handle their babies in this country. I was a live-in babysitter for two summers as a teenager and had plenty of opportunities to see how these families handled their babies. Not to mention seeing how my family took care of theirs.

Finally I blow up on her and tell her how dare she insult all Americans this way. I tell her I can't listen to her anymore and that her words make me sick. I tell her she knows nothing about American mothers and has no right to say such disrespectful things. Now keep in mind I am yelling at her to her face. I stomped out of the room and refused to answer her calling my name. I knew if I turned around I would have hit her. I was told later she started crying and wailing about how rude I was to her and that no one ever talked to her like that before. I don't care. You don't insult all American women on purpose in front of an American woman and think you can get away with it. There was an Iraqi woman in the room who talked to me later and tried to say this woman didn't mean it that way, but I don't see what other way she could have meant it.

Anyway, feedback would be greatly appreciated. I honestly don't know how to deal with this woman when I see her now.

First, Be very very very glad I wasnt there. Youd have more than a miffed Iraqi to deal with . You would have an enraged mother with her hands around this arab womans neck. First, Americans raise their children to be givers and doers. You dont see ANY imaginative discovery or inventions coming out of the arab world right now. American women raise their children with IMAGINATION and to give to others. Its part of our ethic, the charitable American ethic. American children are raised from the time they can think to donate, to share, to give and be part of a wider community. Our children are tied to other children here like a big village. American children collect for unicef, give their hair to kids with cancer. They raise money for their schools. We have a group conscience. From the minute we are born here in the US, everyone rejoices along with us.. People donate money so kids can go on trips. Its not like the ALL ABOUT ME arabic culture where people become slaves to THEIR INTERPRETAION OF RELIGION.

If a woman follows all the rules in arabic culture, they still can end up divorced and children there are like a status symbol for the mom. Some of these women the only hold they have on having an identity is having a child. Apologise to this bimbo? Oh hell no. Fly me up there so I can strangle her. And dont think I wont. I lost a child to heart failure/sids and I loved that baby. The things that arabs have said to me about his short life have made me want to strangle every last one of them. American women have to WORK. They cant sit around on their flabby asses pointing out the faults in others. We have to work and pay bills and our taxes so whores like that can immigrate here and criticise us. Yes you have a right to be enraged. No you dont have to be nice.

Word to the wise. I know your husband is Iraqi and you are trying to BLEND and hang out with these women. But please for the love of god, and you know me S and S, get some American girl friends. You need it to counter the dumb things that these wenches say.

Oh and every body , please forgive me. I am in grieving. Tell the Iraqi that when I am strangling her Syrian friend

And I promise you, No arab woman is high enough on crack to say this kind of ####### to me. I know you are trying to be polite but if you launched into them about their lack of personailty, independence, their pettiness and materialism and lack of ANY KIND OF INTELLECTUAL capacity, we would all have a field day. I told my mom the only time I ever get along with my husband is if I talk to him like hes either 3 or mentally disabled. If I ever spoke with any kind of normal authoratative tone in my voice like American men, some of these guys get disturbed. I found alot of these women to be whiney, self centered, immature, selfish, materialistic and gossipy. What else would you be when all you do is sit around and eat and watch high drama egyptian soap operas all day. How many intelligent capable in charge women do you ever see on Nile Network? The only women I ever see on their that are reasonably independent are hookers ( like Usra plays in the movies)

Ok I am out of control now.. I am sorry everyone

[*JG* 2]

HIT, I aspire to be just like you. Wow! The times I have wanted to say this to some people I know. Not Arab, btw. Thank you for showing me how it is done today!

[nunyab 0]

well if she was talking about americans..she was talking about herself too cuz she is living in america. Unless she means "native" americans . Why do so many people hate on penticostals? Is it like what alot of people do against muslim's and other religons? Sounds like she was blowing off pent up emotions/anger and you were there so became the victim of it. I watched my son and daughter fighting once where, my daughter was PMSing and she went on a tangent about like 5 things in a row while my son just stood there in shock at the attack....when she said all she could she waited for his retaliation and he just said "wow" and no one knew what to say LOL it pretty much said everything...he did not agree and he did not defend, he just said "wow"

smart man

[SaadBell 0]

Reading this was like listening to my Great grandmother, who was really old, and didn’t speak any English and was forced to come to America and live with her children. I loved my great grandmother, but she always had something to say negative about America. She told my grandmother, her daughter, that I was being raised in a awful country and would learn bad ways. I guess it didn’t help that I was a handful, this all was because I decided to be a dog, our dog Ruby, whom I loved, I just thought I want to be just like Ruby, and Ruby went to the bathroom outside and drank water from his water dish outside. You can just guess what I did, yep, I drank from the water dish, but what seal the deal for my great grandmother was when I lifted my leg in the front yard. That was it for her, that proved to her that I was raised in a immoral country. Everything is always better in the old country, which just is too funny.

Now as far as American mothers, the majorities of us spoil our children and love them. I remember being in Egypt and the children are doing all kind of work at such a young age, I am telling you, no America kid would do that kind of work, maybe there are a few, but the majority of kids here are spoiled. If we saw children begging in the streets, something would be done, someone would call, we don’t do that kind of stuff here.

Ok, one more thing, I miss a flight one time in Cairo, and was alone husband was not with me, and I had to struggle to get another flight. So finally after crying these ladies in the bathroom help me, but not I had to pay them a little, for their kindness like every other person in Cairo. When I finally got to Atlanta there was this little old Arab women who had miss her flight, and was in a panic, not speaking English crying. I have never been prouder to be an American, 4 women, and AMERICAN WOMEN who never met this old lady, took her under their wing and fought for the lady at the counter for this old lady to get a ticket to her family. They stayed with her and comforted her, and handled everything, and guess what, WE DID IT WITHOUT ASKING FOR MONEY. So take that lady who hates America. We may have some faults, I am the first one to speak up about that, but we also have some of the best people you will ever meet.

As far as her telling you about how religion of your mother is evil, now I would just have to laugh, really are you kidding me??????????????? I am speechless to that one.

[Donna A 4]

there was this man i knew from lebanon who came here and all he could do was talk about how bad america was, how bad american people are...u get the picture...well he stayed i think 3 years and by the end of that time he was saying...u know i was wrong about everything i said when i first got here....american's are so much better then arabs!!!! i asked why his opinion had changed and he said he didnt know but it had and he is sorry for saying all that mean stuff. glad someone finally figured it out.

[caybee 21]

Slapping a child in the face or hitting a child on the head in any way, at least in Illinois, is considered a reportable offense for mandated child-abuse reporters. This does not necessarily mean that it can be prosecuted--the laws are not this specific--just that it needs to be reported to child protective services by those who are required to do so by law so that they can investigate whether or not the child is actually being abused. It takes a lot more than a slap in the face to have a child removed from a home, though, in my experience working in the field of mental health.

I've been doing research on children in Morocco for the last four years and slapping children in the face and hitting them on the head seems to be fairly common (although many people are also very against hitting children in this way), along with hitting them with all kinds of objects--a lot of which would be considered abuse in the U.S. (any hitting with objects is also reportable in the US). It depends on the family, though, corporal punishment varies greatly here. Most people that I've workedwith seem to think it is a lot kinder to the child to hit them, than to put them in 'time out' or to ignore them when they behave badly. It's interesting because I really have observed very little emotional withdrawal as a punishment technique here, which seems more common in the US.

People also raise their children differently according to how their children are going to need to function when they grow up. So, the argument for not responding immediately to a crying baby has often been that children need to learn early on to be independent and rely on themselves for emotional soothing. This doesn't necessarily make sense in a Moroccan village, for example, where kids will never be expected to be 'on their own' in the future. In this rural Moroccan context, where there is very little police presence and children have to learn to fight and withstand pain--it makes sense that people use corporal punishment. The emotional effects of 'co-sleeping' have been studied, as have the effects of spanking, and it neither seem to make much difference in the long run to the emotional health of a child (measured by American standards, of course). In the psychological literature what seems to matter is consistency over almost anything else.

That Syrian woman sounds 'mismooma' (poisonous), as they say in Morocco. I would stay away from her!

Very interesting post. Thank you. This supports what my husband told me about corporal punishment, that it happens but isn't accompanied by any emotional isolation or really any longterm anger from the parent; it's simply done for the good of the child. He doesn't understand time-outs and isolative punishment here. He also doesn't understand how a 15-year-old can go to prison here, even juvie. He told me when a teen acts out in Morocco, it's generally considered the parents' fault.

We have discussed the fact that the social context matters, that slapping a child's face here where it is generally not supported by society (and the child knows that) could be more damaging to the child than it would be in Morocco where it is more acceptable.

Good luck with your research. Sounds fascinating.

[Aymsgirl 0]

You know my husband had dinner with a man from Syria that is a well known cardiologist in our area. He told my husband that there is more issues with Arabs coming to the US and their train of thought than us going there. He told him that in a few years he will appreciate our logic and the way we think and how hard we work. Not that he doesn't already but I think it helped hearing it from somebody that has been here for 25 years. He said look at things in your own country...they throw trash just everywhere...here in America we take pride in how our environment looks and you will see when you take your son home how raising him here will teach him so much respect.

[AlHayatZween 2]

Ugh....

Hi, S and S,

Sounds like an awful confrontation, but don't feel bad for blowing up and letting off steam. It sounds like you offered her very clear, sound defenses that indeed, not all American women treat their children in the way she was stating.... before you blew up. There are always going to be people who generalize... the grass-is-always-greener types. And unfortunately, American women take hits from all sorts of stereotypes all the time.

As for apologizing, if you feel bad for speaking to her harshly that's one thing, or if it will jeopardize your work relationship, but from what you told us, it sounds like she had it coming with her blatant insistence on generalizing.

And sure, we've all been told to respect our elders, but:

A) this is not the "Old Country" and

B) What if your elder is just plain wrong? Older is not necessarily wiser, and it is she who made the mistake of badmouthing American women... to an American woman.

My two cents...

Feel better,

hz

[ginny20 0]

Slapping a child in the face or hitting a child on the head in any way, at least in Illinois, is considered a reportable offense for mandated child-abuse reporters. This does not necessarily mean that it can be prosecuted--the laws are not this specific--just that it needs to be reported to child protective services by those who are required to do so by law so that they can investigate whether or not the child is actually being abused. It takes a lot more than a slap in the face to have a child removed from a home, though, in my experience working in the field of mental health.

I've been doing research on children in Morocco for the last four years and slapping children in the face and hitting them on the head seems to be fairly common (although many people are also very against hitting children in this way), along with hitting them with all kinds of objects--a lot of which would be considered abuse in the U.S. (any hitting with objects is also reportable in the US). It depends on the family, though, corporal punishment varies greatly here. Most people that I've workedwith seem to think it is a lot kinder to the child to hit them, than to put them in 'time out' or to ignore them when they behave badly. It's interesting because I really have observed very little emotional withdrawal as a punishment technique here, which seems more common in the US.

People also raise their children differently according to how their children are going to need to function when they grow up. So, the argument for not responding immediately to a crying baby has often been that children need to learn early on to be independent and rely on themselves for emotional soothing. This doesn't necessarily make sense in a Moroccan village, for example, where kids will never be expected to be 'on their own' in the future. In this rural Moroccan context, where there is very little police presence and children have to learn to fight and withstand pain--it makes sense that people use corporal punishment. The emotional effects of 'co-sleeping' have been studied, as have the effects of spanking, and it neither seem to make much difference in the long run to the emotional health of a child (measured by American standards, of course). In the psychological literature what seems to matter is consistency over almost anything else.

That Syrian woman sounds 'mismooma' (poisonous), as they say in Morocco. I would stay away from her!

Very interesting post. Thank you. This supports what my husband told me about corporal punishment, that it happens but isn't accompanied by any emotional isolation or really any longterm anger from the parent; it's simply done for the good of the child. He doesn't understand time-outs and isolative punishment here. He also doesn't understand how a 15-year-old can go to prison here, even juvie. He told me when a teen acts out in Morocco, it's generally considered the parents' fault.

We have discussed the fact that the social context matters, that slapping a child's face here where it is generally not supported by society (and the child knows that) could be more damaging to the child than it would be in Morocco where it is more acceptable.

Good luck with your research. Sounds fascinating.

Thanks caybee!

I completely agree with you that hitting has a very different meaning in the US and have also tried to impress this on my fiance!

Interestingly enough, there are hebs draree sghar ('children's prisons) in Morocco (one in Fez and one in Sale, at least) and judges are increasing sending children there (mostly lower-class and even rural kids). I work with one 14-yr old boy who ended up there for 4 months after paralyzing another kid in a fight. The fact that you are seeing more young people go to jail, I think, has to do with a lot of changes in ideas about children and the family in Morocco that are occurring.

[caybee 21]

Slapping a child in the face or hitting a child on the head in any way, at least in Illinois, is considered a reportable offense for mandated child-abuse reporters. This does not necessarily mean that it can be prosecuted--the laws are not this specific--just that it needs to be reported to child protective services by those who are required to do so by law so that they can investigate whether or not the child is actually being abused. It takes a lot more than a slap in the face to have a child removed from a home, though, in my experience working in the field of mental health.

I've been doing research on children in Morocco for the last four years and slapping children in the face and hitting them on the head seems to be fairly common (although many people are also very against hitting children in this way), along with hitting them with all kinds of objects--a lot of which would be considered abuse in the U.S. (any hitting with objects is also reportable in the US). It depends on the family, though, corporal punishment varies greatly here. Most people that I've workedwith seem to think it is a lot kinder to the child to hit them, than to put them in 'time out' or to ignore them when they behave badly. It's interesting because I really have observed very little emotional withdrawal as a punishment technique here, which seems more common in the US.

People also raise their children differently according to how their children are going to need to function when they grow up. So, the argument for not responding immediately to a crying baby has often been that children need to learn early on to be independent and rely on themselves for emotional soothing. This doesn't necessarily make sense in a Moroccan village, for example, where kids will never be expected to be 'on their own' in the future. In this rural Moroccan context, where there is very little police presence and children have to learn to fight and withstand pain--it makes sense that people use corporal punishment. The emotional effects of 'co-sleeping' have been studied, as have the effects of spanking, and it neither seem to make much difference in the long run to the emotional health of a child (measured by American standards, of course). In the psychological literature what seems to matter is consistency over almost anything else.

That Syrian woman sounds 'mismooma' (poisonous), as they say in Morocco. I would stay away from her!

Very interesting post. Thank you. This supports what my husband told me about corporal punishment, that it happens but isn't accompanied by any emotional isolation or really any longterm anger from the parent; it's simply done for the good of the child. He doesn't understand time-outs and isolative punishment here. He also doesn't understand how a 15-year-old can go to prison here, even juvie. He told me when a teen acts out in Morocco, it's generally considered the parents' fault.

We have discussed the fact that the social context matters, that slapping a child's face here where it is generally not supported by society (and the child knows that) could be more damaging to the child than it would be in Morocco where it is more acceptable.

Good luck with your research. Sounds fascinating.

Thanks caybee!

I completely agree with you that hitting has a very different meaning in the US and have also tried to impress this on my fiance!

Interestingly enough, there are hebs draree sghar ('children's prisons) in Morocco (one in Fez and one in Sale, at least) and judges are increasing sending children there (mostly lower-class and even rural kids). I work with one 14-yr old boy who ended up there for 4 months after paralyzing another kid in a fight. The fact that you are seeing more young people go to jail, I think, has to do with a lot of changes in ideas about children and the family in Morocco that are occurring.

My husband is from Meknes. I wonder if he is very aware of these prisons.

We were out walking in the new medina one evening and he pointed out a couple of kids huffing paint in plain site. He told me that was fairly common and that a lot of kids huff chemicals in the theater watching Bollywood movies as a sort of escapism, watching the poor boy get the rich, beautiful girl.