So, who won vice presidential debate???

[rocks 494]

But pretty much any career woman does that to an extent - more often than not both parents are working and the kids inevitably spend time in daycare.

yep, but those are not good family values, which was my point.

Family values have evolved since the 1950s.

good one.

it's a shame palin's policies haven't.

[Peikko 1,575]

What I find most disturbing, is not that potential voters identify with Ms Palin as a down to earth, working mother who 'knows how it feels to be poor and without health insurance' etc, but that merely being able to identify with her is all that is required.

Seriously, there are probably millions of people that could stand on a platform and say the same thing. What makes a politician different, or should anyway, is that they take these experiences and translate them into effective ways to change the things that are wrong with government and society and make it better. When has Ms Palin articulated anything beyond fthe identification stage? I haven't heard it. It's all very well to say that you understand what it's like to have a child who is mentally ill or to not have health care but how does that change anyone's life? How does this identification translate into any policy measures that will allow average Americans access to effective and affordable health care for example?

I have to ask, is anyone less well qualified to be VP than Sarah Palin? I would very much doubt it. It's most bizarre to me that she is allowed to be so ineffectual and ditzy and pretty much gets away with it unchallenged by either the media or the general voting public just because people like and identify with her.

Edited October 3, 2008 by Madame Cleo

[Minya's wife 25]

i liked how at the end of the debate her children came on stage and she held her baby for about 10 seconds before palming it off onto another child. the husband paid no interest in it at all. what a lovely family.

I didn't see her palm the kid off. I thought the shots of her holding the kid and patting his/her back looked good for her, actually. More so than what she'd been previously saying.

a daughter was holding it (i think bristol?), then palin kinda held it but it was just hanging there, no affection like from the first daughter, then she quickly gives it to another daughter who is barely big enough to hold it, who was very loving too. dad just stood by and didn't have anything to do with it. their family values are messed up. she does not represent the values of any women i know.

IT? It has a name!

lol, is that the best you can come up with?

Sorry rocks, same applies. You have no idea how this woman handles her family, and to attack her on such a non-issue when it comes to having a hand in running the country just seems to lack substance. There are a multitude of issues to take up with her. This just seems lame.

We may have no idea how she is w/ her children day-to-day, but I still find issue with the fact that she parades her special-needs baby in front of large crowds, as if she deserves a trophy for being a mother to one. Thinking back to the convention...IMO it cannot be a good thing for that baby to have to sit through the bright lights and all that loud cheering and clapping ...but there was the baby, being held up to the limelight. She choses to parade her child in front of the camera. While I agree that this may not indicate whether she is a good mother or not, I do think it is an indicator of the fact that she (and by extension her party) will subject even a small baby as a prop if it can in any way further their agenda. Again, IMO not very motherly.

-P

[HAL 9000 96]

Everyone was expecting a Lloyd Benson/ Dan Qayle moment & there wasn't one. However Independents polled felt Biden won & that's what matters (the left & right cancel each other out).

yep

I am sick of the "maverick" speak. We freaking GET IT.

Maverick mavericik Maverick maverick...

[HAL 9000 96]

Paul-I forgot to mention that. Calling the leader of Iran "insane" was really not a good idea. Maybe you don't agree with his views, but implying he is mentally unstable when you are trying to run for VP of a country that puts a lot of work into forgien relations is ridiculous. Not one news agency I saw mentioned this at all.

Furthermore, no one said anything about her comment about "I'm just not used to the way you people in Washington do things or say things..." (to some degree, not a quote) What a stupid thing to say when she WANTS to become a part of it and the very party she is involved with is currently in power in...wait a minute...Washington.

I am sure that doesn't quite fall under the umbrella of not telling your 'adversary' that he is one. McCain had to actually wrench his tummy on that one.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

What I find most disturbing, is not that potential voters identify with Ms Palin as a down to earth, working mother who 'knows how it feels to be poor and without health insurance' etc, but that merely being able to identify with her is all that is required.

Seriously, there are probably millions of people that could stand on a platform and say the same thing. What makes a politician different, or should anyway, is that they take these experiences and translate them into effective ways to change the things that are wrong with government and society and make it better. When has Ms Palin articulated anything beyond fthe identification stage? I haven't heard it. It's all very well to say that you understand what it's like to have a child who is mentally ill or to not have health care but how does that change anyone's life? How does this identification translate into any policy measures that will allow average Americans access to effective and affordable health care for example?

I have to ask, is anyone less well qualified to be VP than Sarah Palin? I would very much doubt it. It's most bizarre to me that she is allowed to be so ineffectual and ditzy and pretty much gets away with it unchallenged by either the media or the general voting public just because people like and identify with her.

The media comments (I was watching it on Fox) were certainly a bit strange. Mainly interested in how she carried herself, almost no interest in what she said.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

Everyone was expecting a Lloyd Benson/ Dan Qayle moment & there wasn't one. However Independents polled felt Biden won & that's what matters (the left & right cancel each other out).

yep

I am sick of the "maverick" speak. We freaking GET IT.

Maverick mavericik Maverick maverick...

Hope change hope change hope Hope change hope change hope Hope change hope change hope Hope change hope change hope

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Everyone was expecting a Lloyd Benson/ Dan Qayle moment & there wasn't one. However Independents polled felt Biden won & that's what matters (the left & right cancel each other out).

yep

I am sick of the "maverick" speak. We freaking GET IT.

Maverick mavericik Maverick maverick...

Hope change hope change hope Hope change hope change hope Hope change hope change hope Hope change hope change hope

I don't think Biden referenced that campaign slogan at all in the debate.

[rocks 494]

We may have no idea how she is w/ her children day-to-day, but I still find issue with the fact that she parades her special-needs baby in front of large crowds, as if she deserves a trophy for being a mother to one. Thinking back to the convention...IMO it cannot be a good thing for that baby to have to sit through the bright lights and all that loud cheering and clapping ...but there was the baby, being held up to the limelight. She choses to parade her child in front of the camera. While I agree that this may not indicate whether she is a good mother or not, I do think it is an indicator of the fact that she (and by extension her party) will subject even a small baby as a prop if it can in any way further their agenda. Again, IMO not very motherly.

-P

exactly, i don't know what she does at home but i can see what she does to try to gain votes. whilst i can appreciate that not everyone would think that would make her a bad mother, i do.

[*JG* 2]

I WON it. I managed to get around all the closed streets, roadblocks, police, and crazy drivers, to make it home from work in one piece!

[HAL 9000 96]

But pretty much any career woman does that to an extent - more often than not both parents are working and the kids inevitably spend time in daycare.

yep, but those are not good family values, which was my point.

Family values have evolved since the 1950s.

good one.

it's a shame palin's policies haven't.

But she did say she wasn't against homosexual civil unions. Which should alienate some of that religious fundamentalist element that is an important base in the Republican campaign machinery. From what I understand, they are just pretty much anti-**, and do not wan't to recognize any kind of government sanctioning of homosexual unions from the legal to the social. Just my take.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

But pretty much any career woman does that to an extent - more often than not both parents are working and the kids inevitably spend time in daycare.

yep, but those are not good family values, which was my point.

Family values have evolved since the 1950s.

good one.

it's a shame palin's policies haven't.

But she did say she wasn't against homosexual civil unions. Which should alienate some of that religious fundamentalist element that is an important base in the Republican campaign machinery. From what I understand, they are just pretty much anti-**, and do not wan't to recognize any kind of government sanctioning of homosexual unions from the legal to the social. Just my take.

Both parties are pro-status quo on that issue.

[HAL 9000 96]

Everyone was expecting a Lloyd Benson/ Dan Qayle moment & there wasn't one. However Independents polled felt Biden won & that's what matters (the left & right cancel each other out).

yep

I am sick of the "maverick" speak. We freaking GET IT.

Maverick mavericik Maverick maverick...

Hope change hope change hope Hope change hope change hope Hope change hope change hope Hope change hope change hope

I don't think Biden referenced that campaign slogan at all in the debate.

He also didn't insult the governor's intelligence. She did that all by herself at times much like Marc likes to do so all the time.

[HAL 9000 96]

Both parties are pro-status quo on that issue.

Pretty much. They can't alienate that many voters even though, as I mentioned above- the Republicans count on their religious fundamentalists to get them some votes. Its pretty much useless thinking they'd vote elsewhere, since to them I am sure the alternatives are having a Muslim anti-Christ in office.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Both parties are pro-status quo on that issue.

Pretty much. They can't alienate that many voters even though, as I mentioned above- the Republicans count on their religious fundamentalists to get them some votes. Its pretty much useless thinking they'd vote elsewhere, since to them I am sure the alternatives are having a Muslim anti-Christ in office.

As I say its a non-issue given that the point of contention appears to be over who actually owns the word "marriage".