So, who won vice presidential debate???

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

What did the conservatives think about her also supporting legislative acceptance of gay unions? Not that she wanted to change the fundamental definition of what is a tradtional marriage, no, but you know she has like, all kinds of people within her own family and friends circle and she also totally supports their personal right to whatever they want to do, so long as it doesn't threaten what she understands as being the traditional one woman one man marriage union.

Its not that much different from the present. Its essentially a semantic distinction - you can give a gay couple all the rights and legal recognition that pertain to marriage, but as long as a euphemism is used instead of the word "marriage".

Its a silly position to be honest.

Both tickets are in concurrence since its more more of a "rights" than "rubric" issue

I know. Its a dumb, fence-sitting position. Someone needs to have the guts to get up and say "This is just dumb. If we're giving people all the rights pertaining to marriage, that's what we should call it".

The only reason they don't is because the fundies would get up in arms about it - because the religious establishment feels it *owns* marriage, despite the fact that it was taken over by secularism decades ago.

Edited October 3, 2008 by Paul Daniels

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

Who give a flyin hoot who owns the word marriage? Its not a big deal.

[metta 0]

I heard tonight the inside-the-beltway denizen talking to a Main Street American.

Of course the pundits are going nuts because Palin did not make any gaffes they were looking forward to.

I see in her how a middle class American processes information and how they would respond.

Those of us used to Sunday morning talk shows will see her style quaint but she reminds me of Harry Truman.

Give her 6 months and you will be surprised what she can be.

Clearly, Sarah Palin won in style. She can strike ordinary Americans as a breath of fresh air different from all the elite discourse.

We'll see what the polls say in the coming days but I suspect McCain poll numbers may stabilize and perhaps even improve.

Biden ( I like this guy very much) met the expectation people have of a senator whose been in Washington for 36 years.. No more no less.

How someone talks isn't an indication of the quality of wisdom or political judgement that they have.

It's not necessarily how she talks but also how she processes information and respond. Not in crisp point 1, 2, 4 etc. But in very plain language addresses issues the way she understands it and then later in the response addresses them. I think many ordinary folks who are still undecided will find it quite resonating..

Take your biases off and try to put on an objective observer hat guys

Are none of us here "ordinary folks"?

As I said - it wasn't lost on me that the moderator mentioned on serveral occasions that the candidates weren't really answering the questions asked. I think the format of the debate catered specifically to the sort of performance that Palin put in. Polished certainly, but ultimately rather superficial.

No we ain't. We are political junkies cruising the blogosphere if not peddling our povs on vj.

Who do you class as "ordinary folks" then?

A person who doesn't really use the internet, doesn't post on message boards, doesn't have more than a token, superficial interest in politics and who can be swayed simply by feel-good rhetoric?

Did we get substance out of this debate?

Did we really? Honestly?

Folks who don't spend hours trolling the net or watching tv going after every bit of commentary and punditry

By that definition - you're looking at the urban poor (who don't have a PC, and can't afford more than basic cable) and people in nursing homes.

Oh - and prison inmates.

That's a cheap shot fish and you know it.

Not everyone who has a laptop spend that much time browsing the net as some of us do..

You can't resist injecting "class warfare" every chance you get. can't you.

Goodness, what do we have here in you? An imported loony left from across the pond, eh

Another wanna be Andrew Sullivan I presume....

[Kathryn41 3,205]

We watched the debate while also in a chat room with a number of our online friends while they watched the debate. With us were two avowed Republicans, 2 avowed Democrats, 2 'Other' and 2 undecided along with me who has no vote. It was a 100% decision tonight that Biden won the debate, although Palin did better than expected. The two Republicans both agreed that Sarah looked like she was just reciting memorized lines and that she didn't answer the questions, just went off on tangents of her prepared 'shifts'. Biden looked positively Presidential and Palin looked like a cheerleader. Even the two Republicans said that they were very impressed with Biden.

Here in Atlanta, Georgia - a red state - the published poll of Georgia voters in the Atlanta Journal Constitution has Biden winning the debate with 52% and Palin with 48%. McCain is slipping substantially in Georgia having lost 18% points in the last 2 weeks. Palin didn't lose it for the Republicans tonight, but she certainly didn't win it either.

Edited October 3, 2008 by Kathryn41

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Goodness, what do we have here in you? An imported loony left from across the pond, eh

Another wanna be Andrew Sullivan I presume....

I am shocked that you want to mock another poster for which country he's from.

At least he's from a country that has an actual history of democracy.

[Peikko 1,575]

Hardly, Six would not be considered even slightly left of centre in the UK - oh, that's right, Europeans are all on the loony left

[mRx 16]

Biden did do a good job by not calling her "Mrs. Palin", "she", or any other term of address for a woman that could be blown out of proportion by the hairy, smelly feminists. It was always "Governer". LOL.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

That's a cheap shot fish and you know it.Not everyone who has a laptop spend that much time browsing the net as some of us do..

You can't resist injecting "class warfare" every chance you get. can't you.

Goodness, what do we have here in you? An imported loony left from across the pond, eh

Another wanna be Andrew Sullivan I presume....

Metta, they live by it!

[metta 0]

What did the conservatives think about her also supporting legislative acceptance of gay unions? Not that she wanted to change the fundamental definition of what is a tradtional marriage, no, but you know she has like, all kinds of people within her own family and friends circle and she also totally supports their personal right to whatever they want to do, so long as it doesn't threaten what she understands as being the traditional one woman one man marriage union.

Its not that much different from the present. Its essentially a semantic distinction - you can give a gay couple all the rights and legal recognition that pertain to marriage, but as long as a euphemism is used instead of the word "marriage".

Its a silly position to be honest.

Both tickets are in concurrence since its more more of a "rights" than "rubric" issue

I know. Its a dumb, fence-sitting position. Someone needs to have the guts to get up and say "This is just dumb. If we're giving people all the rights pertaining to marriage, that's what we should call it".

The only reason they don't is because the fundies would get up in arms about it - because the religious establishment feels it *owns* marriage, despite the fact that it was taken over by secularism decades ago.

Right!

The flock should pressure the One to do just that then.

Ask BO to take a clear stand on that...You don't say he's beholden to the fundies too?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

What did the conservatives think about her also supporting legislative acceptance of gay unions? Not that she wanted to change the fundamental definition of what is a tradtional marriage, no, but you know she has like, all kinds of people within her own family and friends circle and she also totally supports their personal right to whatever they want to do, so long as it doesn't threaten what she understands as being the traditional one woman one man marriage union.

Its not that much different from the present. Its essentially a semantic distinction - you can give a gay couple all the rights and legal recognition that pertain to marriage, but as long as a euphemism is used instead of the word "marriage".

Its a silly position to be honest.

Both tickets are in concurrence since its more more of a "rights" than "rubric" issue

I know. Its a dumb, fence-sitting position. Someone needs to have the guts to get up and say "This is just dumb. If we're giving people all the rights pertaining to marriage, that's what we should call it".

The only reason they don't is because the fundies would get up in arms about it - because the religious establishment feels it *owns* marriage, despite the fact that it was taken over by secularism decades ago.

Right!

The flock should pressure the One to do just that then.

Ask BO to take a clear stand on that...You don't say he's beholden to the fundies too?

So what - why are you concerned by what I don't say?

And yes he is totally beholden to the fundies - that's the simple reason that he won't do it. Because its a numbers game that requires him to be all things to all people. I have never once believed Obama was anything other than another career politician. Its the nature of the beast.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I heard tonight the inside-the-beltway denizen talking to a Main Street American.

Of course the pundits are going nuts because Palin did not make any gaffes they were looking forward to.

I see in her how a middle class American processes information and how they would respond.

Those of us used to Sunday morning talk shows will see her style quaint but she reminds me of Harry Truman.

Give her 6 months and you will be surprised what she can be.

Clearly, Sarah Palin won in style. She can strike ordinary Americans as a breath of fresh air different from all the elite discourse.

We'll see what the polls say in the coming days but I suspect McCain poll numbers may stabilize and perhaps even improve.

Biden ( I like this guy very much) met the expectation people have of a senator whose been in Washington for 36 years.. No more no less.

How someone talks isn't an indication of the quality of wisdom or political judgement that they have.

It's not necessarily how she talks but also how she processes information and respond. Not in crisp point 1, 2, 4 etc. But in very plain language addresses issues the way she understands it and then later in the response addresses them. I think many ordinary folks who are still undecided will find it quite resonating..

Take your biases off and try to put on an objective observer hat guys

Are none of us here "ordinary folks"?

As I said - it wasn't lost on me that the moderator mentioned on serveral occasions that the candidates weren't really answering the questions asked. I think the format of the debate catered specifically to the sort of performance that Palin put in. Polished certainly, but ultimately rather superficial.

No we ain't. We are political junkies cruising the blogosphere if not peddling our povs on vj.

Who do you class as "ordinary folks" then?

A person who doesn't really use the internet, doesn't post on message boards, doesn't have more than a token, superficial interest in politics and who can be swayed simply by feel-good rhetoric?

Did we get substance out of this debate?

Did we really? Honestly?

Folks who don't spend hours trolling the net or watching tv going after every bit of commentary and punditry

By that definition - you're looking at the urban poor (who don't have a PC, and can't afford more than basic cable) and people in nursing homes.

Oh - and prison inmates.

That's a cheap shot fish and you know it.

Not everyone who has a laptop spend that much time browsing the net as some of us do..

You can't resist injecting "class warfare" every chance you get. can't you.

Goodness, what do we have here in you? An imported loony left from across the pond, eh

Another wanna be Andrew Sullivan I presume....

You made some vague references to an undefined demographic that you refer to as "ordinary folks" - but don't seem able to define as anything more specific than "not people on VJ".

All that's missing is a reference to "the great unwashed".

And you say I can't resist injecting "class warfare" into things...

Hardly, Six would not be considered even slightly left of centre in the UK - oh, that's right, Europeans are all on the loony left

Who is "hard-left" in the UK? I guess there are some Old Labour / SDP types still kicking around but I've not met any...

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Who give a flyin hoot who owns the word marriage? Its not a big deal.

It isn't to people who take it for granted.

[Peikko 1,575]

I used to know a few communists back in the day, nice folks actually and they always seemed to have really good vodka.

[HAL 9000 96]

Biden sounded like he was talking from his head.. Palin sounded like she was just repeating things she had memorized..

Thats what we felt too

And you sure it wasn't the mainstream liberal media telling you what to think?

Thats what it was! Thank you so much for opening my eyes! Going republican!

Amazing ain't it?

[metta 0]

Goodness, what do we have here in you? An imported loony left from across the pond, eh

Another wanna be Andrew Sullivan I presume....

I am shocked that you want to mock another poster for which country he's from.

At least he's from a country that has an actual history of democracy.

I'm not mocking troll, just pattern recognition kicking in

My very own, beloved "first born" is of the same mindset. And, yes he is from across the pond too.

But since he finished his second degree in economics from machester u, his views seem to have been rightly adjusted...

Edited October 3, 2008 by metta