Can anyone share experience setting up a pre-nuptial ?

[kevinj 19]

Hi everyone,

I understand that we'll need a lawyer to set up a pre-nup, but I wonder if any of you have experience and (free!) advice?

1/ How long does it take and how much does it cost?

2/ Does it reflect in any way on the immigration process? Eg., if they ask during the interview whether we have one or not, and we say yes, does that sound fishy or not?

3/ We both have close to nothing right now, so we're not worried about that. But one of us will be making big college debts in the next couple of years, and we're wondering if there's a way to set up a pre-nup so that the other person can't be held responsible for these debts. Anyone have experience with this?

Thanks so much!

Best luck to everyone,

Kevin

[payxibka 10,045]

1) Depends on situation... It would cost alot more if you were a billionaire because you have more complex issues to discuss,

2) No

3) A prenup is a marriage contract and typically deals with non or pre marital assets and liabilities. However, in any kind of contract, one can agree to just about anything in exchange for appropriate consideration.

[justashooter 430]

you should be able to get a pre-nup for $150, or so. it will take 1 visit to discuss for 15-30 minutes ( if you have a list with property particulars, you names, address & etc, it will speed things up a bit), and a return visit to sign the prepared document.

agreeing to seperate future debt is tricky, and enforcing such an agreement after divorce even more so. this kind of agreement is really only as good as the integrity of the people signing it.

[Gumbolette 58]

I wouldn't be married to my husband right now if I didn't told him how hurt I was by the first time he told me he wants to get one. As a woman,I took it as if an insult to my love for him. Didn't we had a vow that a couple should be as one, whatever it takes, in what ever aspect of life? When a couple has a pre-nuptial agreement,it feels like there is always a gap that divides you and your partner. That, hey!, this is mine and that is yours, it's just so unpleasant,and I admit hurtful if your soon to be husband would arrange this, I believe that when you trust and fully know your partner and you are entrusting yourself to be a lifetime partner both of you will work out on every debts that will soon come up as you go a along the way of your marriage.

Is pre-nup is more worthy that her love?

Due to the increasing cases of divorce in USA, more and more couples are taking this set up before getting married.

Edited October 3, 2008 by my_panacea = Greg

[KHPerfectMatch 1]

I'm in the process of doing this right now. I'm doing it myself because I know my fiancee won't have the resources to have SEPERATE LEGAL COUNSEL so I won't use an attorney either which should make it more fair. There are many online documents for sale for do it yourself Pre-Marriage agreements. (Pre-Nups)

I'm doing it to make sure there is documentation of our premarriage assets and debts, and to make sure that any increase in the value of those assets remain the individual property of the individual who owned the asset prior to marriage, make sure that just because I will be contributing to the household expenses, and we will be filing taxes jointly that this does not mean that he is entitled to any of my assets if we were to divorce.

Unfortunately I've been down this road before... My advice is to hope for the best, but plan for the worst. As a 50 year old woman I have considerable assets to protect (including pension funds, etc.) and in the USA (unlike in Egypt where my fiance is from) I have NO Protection of my personal assets in case of a divorce in my state. My fiance can't believe that such protection for women doesn't exist here, so he has NO PROBLEM signing it.

I did discover in my previous divorce that joint debt incurred during a marriage cannot be eliminated by a pre-nup if the couple JOINTLY signed any contract. If you sign a credit application, contract, etc. it doesn't matter if you have any kind of pre-nup... you owe the debt if you signed the contract...

And even if your spouse has credit in their own name ONLY, if you use their card, or they get you a card in your name, if they used the card to buy things used JOINTLY the creditor can come after the spouse who isn't even a party to the contract. Fortunately we didn't have any such debts!

Also in Oregon husbands and wives are liable for medical bills of the other regardless of whether they signed a contract or not. I'm going to have it in my pre-nup that he has to maintain continous health insurance coverage... (but have no way to enforce this obviously)..

Using an attorney to do this can cost as much as $1000... it is not cheap and you need 2 attorneys, one for each of you, one attorney can not advise BOTH parties ethically. I'm a bit concerned that someone coming on a K-1 Visa having only 90 days to marry could claim they signed under "duress" and try to have the agreement overturned. Therefore I've saved an email chain making it clear this was discussed PRIOR to his arrival here.

This said, I totally doubt this will ever be an issue and pray that it never will... but I refuse to act like Pollyanna at 50...

K

[justashooter 430]

i agree with pollyanna that debts incurred jointly are not seperable. this is why i remarked that any pre-nup is only as good as the character of the parties signing it if it includes "what if" clauses.

at 44, i have assets totaling a half million if liquidated tomorrow, and my young wife has few. we have a pre-nup prepared by my estate attourney, and it is enforceable in PA, even though she did not have seperate counsel. the particulars of this vary by state. in cases where one party is not english fluent a duress case can be pursued. thankfully, my wife is CET8 certified.

as a show of good faith i had my will adjusted in the same moment to regard my wife equally with my children of first marriage. i provided her with all the particulars including insurance policies of about 3/4 million. as a show of good faith she has not whacked me yet.

[mikeuday19 0]

A prenuptial accord is a contract between two people about to wed that spells out how assets will be distributed in the event of divorce or death.

- from my own understanding, a pre-nup is a presumption of divorce before you even get married, how sad...

[Nikita2Charles 32]

I am not sure the pre nup will help much in your case, debts that occurs after marriage is the responsibility of both parties, so a pre nup might cover pre existing debt but not future debt.

Each person situation is different, If you have children from previous marriage, older couple, or folks with a lot of financial asset it makes sense for a pre nup but for a young couple starting their life together it really doesn't make much sense.

Where a pre-nup would help

A colleague had a housethat was passed on to him after his mother died, he got married and they had an 8 year old daughter. For The past 2 years prior to the divorce his wife had an affair but denied the it all along saying the person was just a friend.

2 years later they got divorce so basically they were together for about 9 years.

what happened?

She got custody of their daughter moved 150 miles away with her friend, now finally admitting it was her Lover. As a married couple and without a pre-nup, he offers to buy her out so he can keep the house his mom left him, but they had NO PRENUP, there was going to be a city appraisal, her lawyer advised her to delay the divorce proceding for 4months until the city appraisal, after the appraisal came in, now SHE WANTS TO SELL, but now the husband can't afford to buy her off.

He's forced to sell the house where he grew up with, where his daughter grew up, this guy was like 230lbs huge fella talk, a year later he was like 160lbs. lost almost 100lbs.

Sold the house, she took her half and moved 150 miles away where it's much cheaper, bought a house, the BOYFRIEND IS A DEAD BEAT NO JOB. So the poor guy now got stuck with ALIMONY, CHILD SUPPORT. and whenever the daughter needs something she said GO CALL YOUR DADDY.

Now he's living in a CONDO whereas as he's paying for the house this Feeloader staying with his ex.

Edited October 6, 2008 by Nikita2Charles

[justashooter 430]

anyone not willing to agree to a prenup in a case in which assets and income disparity exists is not worth marrying. if they are not reasonable enough to see a prenup as fair, how reasonable are they going to be in other issues? if they cannot acknowledge the past and the present, how will they act in the future?

[Gumbolette 58]

- from my own understanding, a pre-nup is a presumption of divorce before you even get married, how sad...

Soooo TRUE!!!

[Laura+Tom 2]

Lets not get morals invloved, the OP asked for advice not judgement.

[rheanick 42]

You might be interested to read this blog:

http://oc-divorce.typepad.com/california_d...to_cover_i.html

"what to cover in your prenup?"

If you have smartly decided to get a prenuptial agreement before you marry, there are many areas you may want to cover. You can cover as few or as many of the items as you want. Some of the items may not be relevant to your situation. Be sure that if you follow the list, you will cover most of the key issues.

1. Decide how all of your debts will be handled. This includes those debts incurred before you are married and those incurred after you are married.

2. Make sure you disclose all of your assets, liabilities, sources of income, and any other potential future assets, such as gifts or inheritances.

3. Should you divorce or die, decide who will get your primary residence or any vacation homes.

4. Determine what will happen to any assets or property you bring to your marriage. Normally, this will be separate property. But you need to agree with your soon-to-be, what will happen to any post-marriage appreciation, earnings, or proceeds of that property.

5. Figure out what will happen, if you divorce or die, to any assets or property you acquire after you get married.

6. Clearly state what will happen to each specific type of property, either community or separate. For example, real estate, antiques, jewelry, stock options, and accident settlements.

7. Determine the status of any gifts or bequests you receive, either before or after marriage. These should be separate property, but questions may arise when a gift is given to a couple after marriage. A good example is a gift by one spouse's parents of a down payment on a house. Is that a gift to the couple or just to their child.

8. Although any provision for child support won't be binding later, you can provide for spousal support (alimony) in your prenup. Understand what is reasonable for both the payor and the receiving spouse.

9. Set forth the beneficiary of all retirement plans (e.g. 401(k)s, pensions, IRAs) in the event of your death. Also, clarify how the plans will be divided upon divorce.

10. Clarify who will provide health insurance for your children and how the costs will be shared.

11. Clearly state what state's laws will apply and how a move to another state will affect the prenup.

12. Make sure your attorneys are identified. Have them explain each provision in the prenuptial agreement and try your best to understand what it all means. Don't be afraid to ask questions.

13. Agree upon what happens to your pets in the event of your divorce. Who gets custody and will there be visitation rights?

14. Include a clause that requires the one who challenges the validity of the prenup to pay all of the other spouse's fees, regardless of the outcome. You can also make the challenger give up something of value they might be getting under the prenup.

Hope this helps.

Hi everyone,

I understand that we'll need a lawyer to set up a pre-nup, but I wonder if any of you have experience and (free!) advice?

1/ How long does it take and how much does it cost?

2/ Does it reflect in any way on the immigration process? Eg., if they ask during the interview whether we have one or not, and we say yes, does that sound fishy or not?

3/ We both have close to nothing right now, so we're not worried about that. But one of us will be making big college debts in the next couple of years, and we're wondering if there's a way to set up a pre-nup so that the other person can't be held responsible for these debts. Anyone have experience with this?

Thanks so much!

Best luck to everyone,

Kevin

[Mrs.J06 4]

Using an attorney to do this can cost as much as $1000... it is not cheap and you need 2 attorneys, one for each of you, one attorney can not advise BOTH parties ethically. I'm a bit concerned that someone coming on a K-1 Visa having only 90 days to marry could claim they signed under "duress" and try to have the agreement overturned. Therefore I've saved an email chain making it clear this was discussed PRIOR to his arrival here.

This said, I totally doubt this will ever be an issue and pray that it never will... but I refuse to act like Pollyanna at 50...

K

Not necessarily, you can waive this by putting in a clause that states that the both of you understand and agree to the contract, and that the one partner not represented separately has fully understood the content of the contract and waives the right to his/her own attorney.

But note that the wording has to be correct and should be done by a legal advisor in order not to void the whole contract.

[Team J and B 2]

Hi, kevinj -

The prenuptial does not affect your visa process in any way. Not that I am aware of, anyway. As a matter of fact, I think it is added proof that one party is not using the other party for purpose of immigration.

My lawyer cost around $5000, give or take $500 (I don't have the bill with me). My husband's lawyer probably cost more, as he initiated the prenup and had to go over the language and assets much more closely with his lawyer and more often.

I met with my lawyer once (two hours), and spoke and emailed with her probably a total of two hours. We made a few minor revisions (costs money), and remember, any time you are on hold or she looks up information for you and gets back to you another day costs money, too!

So basically, you each would hire a lawyer to act in your own best interest. It might have cost more for us as our lawyers were in different cities and they probably played a lot of telephone and email tag.

We will be using my husband's lawyer for our will soon, so some of the items in the prenup were left without revision such as in the case of death, any children, etc.

In our state, the will needed to be signed *I think* a week before marriage date, but I don't remember, sorry. As we lived in a different city as my husband's lawyer at that time, she sent us the final prenup, we signed it in the presence of a notary at Fedex, and Fedexed it back to her a few days before our wedding date.

I guess the main thing is you want to know the cost. It could cost at least $10K depending on what assets you have. If it's less assets, it would cost less. But both parties must hire two separate lawyers.

[kevinj 19]

Hello everyone,

thanks very much for taking the time to write a reply - some of you even took a LOT of time, I really appreciate it!

I'd like to add a few words to the "prenups-are-evil" crowd. As you may have noticed, the main worry for me is future debt, not houses and couches and cars. You are all a bit quick jumping to the conclusion that we envision falling out of love one day.

We're looking at $100k - $200k in future debt for her education. (The thought of raising kids outside of "socialist" Europe is terrifying ;-).) I do trust her fairness in dealing with that. But what if something happens to her - let's say the worst happens and she gets run over by a train, what then? I have no assets whatsoever, I would be heartbroken enough and getting financially broken too would not make things any better.

I would not judge my love unworthy for protecting myself against her. But what I'm really doing is protecting myself against situations that are out of her control. As a previous poster pointed out (thanks!), there are situations in which they might seize my assets and income whether she wants it or not! Why doesn't anyone ever think about that in these pro/con prenup discussions?

In a way it can even be extra security for her too if a bankruptcy of one partner would not automatically drag the other partner down as well.

Of course we will be building a life together and so the $150k in debt (best estimate) will exist for me too, whether it is in my name or not ; will limit or steer the choices "I" make ("I" as one part of "we") ; our actions as a couple will be guided by our (financial and other) resources as a couple.

When I fell in love with her 3.5 years ago, I left my country behind, my family, my old friends, and everything familiar ; I gambled on changing jobs, all to be with her. (And it worked out great!) That was as a Ph.D. student, on a job with a limited time frame. Now I'm making that choice all over again, but this time for good : leaving my home country and my family forever. (And I don't think life would have been any less comfortable for me in Europe - you know, where school is free.) I've declined job offers and instead I'm waiting for a green card and will have to humbly go hunting for jobs so I can live with her (the offers were in different cities). So, if anyone wants to challenge my love or my commitment, go ahead.

Well, sorry for that rant. I truly appreciate everyone's point of view, even those who don't like my ways too much. I'm not sure why I felt the need to justify myself, but here it is.

G'night everyone,

Kevin

Edited October 23, 2008 by kevinj