Other parties...

[VisaJourneyLady 33]

it would be the new house and new senate that vote. The dems may pick up further senate seats in the upcoming election, and therefore not be beholden to Lieberman.

[IAMX 3,055]

ok, my bad. They have candidates, and some that win. I guess they are simply not as broadly appealing as the other two parties. The other two simply absorb the policies that garner the third parties support, and therefore reduce their appeal.

That's likely because they've convinced people they should only be voting for something everyone else votes for.

What's the point of voting at all if you're just voting like everyone else?

Do people just happen to think that these politicians get away with as much as they do because said politicians realize they've got voters cornered in this mentality of "one or the other"?

I mean I stand outside the circle, a person who's voted, at one time or another, for both major parties, and even third parties. And I see the same thing with these two major parties, just a different flavor in both. Then if you look at their legislation passed, why is it always helping or protecting the rich and big business, while stifling the rights of the working class which take up almost all of the pie? I'm sure people aren't THAT oblivious to the fact that they get screwed. They are just good at convincing themselves to cheer for the same sh!t like it's going to have some different result the next time, or the next time, or the next time.

It's not changing folks. Figure it out.

Edit: You know your elections are fvcked up when people are strategically thinking of "which party is gonna screw me the least".

Edited September 30, 2008 by SRVT

[lucyrich 20]

it would be the new house and new senate that vote. The dems may pick up further senate seats in the upcoming election, and therefore not be beholden to Lieberman.

Even that's not clear. The electoral college meets in December. The 12th Amendment clearly says that in case no candidate gets a majority of electoral college votes, the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President.. That word "immediately" argues pretty strongly that it's got to be the existing legislature that exists at the time the Electoral College meets. The new Congress won't be in office until January.

However, you could be right. There's a part of USC Title 3 that says it should be the new Congress. But normally, the Constitution trumps ordinary federal laws.

My guess is that the Supreme Court would get involved.

And whatever result happened, it would make the election of G.W. Bush in 2000 look like a sweeping landslide in comparison.

[SpiritAlight 1]

Can't say enough about how true the article is here, and emphasis on the bold parts.

I just wonder how anyone can look down upon third parties when they're voting for people who are not going to screw them, but already are. Not just voting for, but as highly prominent here on VJ, chanting and cheerleading for them. I can understand cheering for a hockey team or a football team. It's just sports. But why this cheering for these two major parties who you KNOW are going to just do the status quo of screwing the masses?

It only proves the two major parties don't want competition, so they market third party as stupid, and guess which lapdogs eat it up? I don't have an exact statistical answer to that, but I'd say around 99% of the voting population.

Democrats want change, and they vote for a guy who will largely do the same goddamn thing as his predecessors! He's already been challenged on how he will save your constitutional rights -- he already voted it down AND publicly defended it. His Democratic Convention was funded by the people who are TAKING these rights from you. How much more flaming can you get than that? Yet people still wave the damn "CHANGE" banner. Your party is no different in corruption than Republicans, as much as you'd justify it.

Republicans, well, exemplify the "screw everyone else but me" mantra, to the max. My beliefs take precedence over your marriage, my beliefs take precedence over your body, my beliefs, my beliefs, my beliefs. Lower taxes? Maybe. Fiscal responsibility? No chance in hell. If we're spending more and taxing less, what the hell are they going to use to cover those costs? Magic? No, we're in debt to someone. That someone is China, Saudi Arabia, and the like. Republicans are the party of preach and preach more, do and do more of the opposite, but, so long as you send the same message, people will still buy it, because hey, at least it's not the liberal Democrats.

Is this a guarantee most third parties wouldn't be corrupt? Not a chance, but at very least we know one thing, and that is, if someone is truly afraid of losing their position, and if people really DO hold the power of vote over these officials, more competition would greatly increase the quality of candidate elect. Also, if these politicians really were under the type of competition that creates a better country, they'd probably not be treating you, the masses, like idiots. And sadly they are turning out correct because they keep holding up that ball, and the masses sit there on their hind legs following it with their eyes, stupified and totally not in control of anything.

I dunno how much American citizens want to be owned by politicians, corporations, and government alike, but whatever the case, we're doing a fantastic job of headed straight toward it. The population at least expanding it's own options would shake up more than enough things just to start the process in the right direction. Until it does at least this, it will just get worse.

There's no constitution to protect you while the people running the government in charge of protecting you are taking those protections away.

This last line is so right on SRVT!

I cannot highlight it enough.

Thank you for making me feel normal.

ok, my bad. They have candidates, and some that win. I guess they are simply not as broadly appealing as the other two parties. The other two simply absorb the policies that garner the third parties support, and therefore reduce their appeal.

That's likely because they've convinced people they should only be voting for something everyone else votes for.

What's the point of voting at all if you're just voting like everyone else?

Do people just happen to think that these politicians get away with as much as they do because said politicians realize they've got voters cornered in this mentality of "one or the other"?

I mean I stand outside the circle, a person who's voted, at one time or another, for both major parties, and even third parties. And I see the same thing with these two major parties, just a different flavor in both. Then if you look at their legislation passed, why is it always helping or protecting the rich and big business, while stifling the rights of the working class which take up almost all of the pie? I'm sure people aren't THAT oblivious to the fact that they get screwed. They are just good at convincing themselves to cheer for the same sh!t like it's going to have some different result the next time, or the next time, or the next time.

It's not changing folks. Figure it out.

Edit: You know your elections are fvcked up when people are strategically thinking of "which party is gonna screw me the least".

Ah, the ever lasting hope that us as human beings can have...

Sad really, at times like this when things are actually only changing for the benefit of the few....fewer and fewer as time goes by.

Edited October 1, 2008 by SpiritAlight

[VisaJourneyLady 33]

There's no constitution to protect you while the people running the government in charge of protecting you are taking those protections away.

That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

Jefferson reckons you should start a revolution to fix the bind you're in.

[IAMX 3,055]

There's no constitution to protect you while the people running the government in charge of protecting you are taking those protections away.

That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

Jefferson reckons you should start a revolution to fix the bind you're in.

Jefferson would likely be marked as a terrorist/extremist and put on a no-fly list. And good luck if Jefferson ever filed for a K1.

[SpiritAlight 1]

There's no constitution to protect you while the people running the government in charge of protecting you are taking those protections away.

That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

Jefferson reckons you should start a revolution to fix the bind you're in.

Jefferson would likely be marked as a terrorist/extremist and put on a no-fly list. And good luck if Jefferson ever filed for a K1.

Yes, here it is.

After having spent the last 2 weeks (solid) reading (more), going to lectures, going to the Freedom Museum, reading some more, I have come to the conclusion that:

The Constitution, The Declaration of Independence, and The Bill of Rights, were/are the most radical writings!

The freedoms and allowances for regular to run their country as they democratically see fit are there for all to witness.

And how laughable that most USians do not - can not - see how few rights they have left, if any.

Did you know you could write and pass your own laws?

Did you know you could overthrow the government?

Did you know that it is your right to stop tyranny as did the founders?

Hey, I am speaking to the general public here; not those of you that are highly aware and conscious.

The problem lies in the fact that you may/will get you assss kicked (hard) if you try to assert even a simple right.

And then, yes, be on all kinds of lists...maybe even called "an enemy combatant" and be forced into isolation for 3 years in a tiny cell.

How fun!

Times now are so scary.

They are almost unbelievable.

Hence the problem.

Edited October 1, 2008 by SpiritAlight