Is anyone watching the Dow?

[Dan J 277]

NPR just had some news....the DOW down 550 points.

Are we having fun yet?

Look I really do not think we need some corporations to make our world go round.

The greed has caused this kerfuffle.

It's time to let it collapse and re-invent it better...let it work for the people....not just a few rich guys.

The problem with a collapse is that it will mainly affect the average guy ... always the middle class. The rich have the resources to bounce back .

... never any skin off there back.

Sly

The bailout as it was written wont do much to help the average guy anyway. Discretionary incomes are shrinking which will impact economic growth. He could still loose his job due to a decrease in sales at the company he or she is working for.

[Dr. Obvious 49]

Wow, the S&P/TSX Composite (Canada) is down 865 points (7%)!

[sly_wolf 199]

With or without a bailout, we would be dealing with economic consequences.

With a bailout, since most of the money would be borrowed, the value of the dollar will fall. We will see inflation in the cost of goods across the board. There is no guarantee that a bailout would even stabilize the economy. We may stabilize the banking side of things, but we wont address shrinking discretionary incomes which drive the economy with purchases of goods and services.

Agreed. But we do need some stability right now rather than crash and burn.

Sly

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

To be perfectly honest, I wasn't sold on the bailout, which they tried to ram through more quickly than the patriot act which I think most people agree was not given the scrutiny it deserved. There seem to be a lot of economists who agree and believe it would not work because it does no sufficiently address the practices that made it necessary in the first palce.

I smelled bull$hit when Paulsen (ex CEO of Gioldman Sachs no less), who was insisting last week that it be approved or we would face economic apocalypse stated that caps on executive compensation would be a "dealbreaker." Hang on - I thought the economy was going to implode? The executives would prefer economic apocalypse to not getting the appropriate severance packages? How can this be so?

I think it may be a case of the administration crying wolf too many times - the "Stimulus package" was similarly rail-roaded as I recall, and that did as much good as a fart in the wind.

While I don't generally hold with conspiracy theories, some of this stuff smells of people trying to cover up their own misdeeds.

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

While I don't generally hold with conspiracy theories, some of this stuff smells of people trying to cover up their own misdeeds.

I've been reading some not entirely implausible conspriacy theories that he left Goldman Sachs in anticipation of the crisis. And how, having coerced the government into buying billions of dollars of worthless securities with minimal oversight and provisions, he would subsequently return to Goldman Sachs where, presumably, he would be heavily rewarded for his good work in betraying the public trust.

These people should be going to prison not getting a bailout

[Jasman0717 9]

I am so glad I moved all my 401k and 457 investments to stable value. I may only be making 4% a year but that is better than loosing tens of thousands on this mess the financial institutions have gotten themselves into.

[sly_wolf 199]

NPR just had some news....the DOW down 550 points.

Are we having fun yet?

Look I really do not think we need some corporations to make our world go round.

The greed has caused this kerfuffle.

It's time to let it collapse and re-invent it better...let it work for the people....not just a few rich guys.

The problem with a collapse is that it will mainly affect the average guy ... always the middle class. The rich have the resources to bounce back .

... never any skin off there back.

Sly

The bailout as it was written wont do much to help the average guy anyway. Discretionary incomes are shrinking which will impact economic growth. He could still loose his job due to a decrease in sales at the company he or she is working for.

Yes, but as I said a collapse would.

Sly

[SpiritAlight 1]

You are right about your concerns, Sly and Alhaya...

I do not for a second want the lower middle class and the working poor to suffer for one second thanks to this huge fiasco.

I just think that if the country was left to the people, the real people, the ones that work for a living producing, building, creating, then we could make this a sustainable country/community.

I have a dream!

Yes.

And as idealistic as I may sound at times, it is not without a zillion ideas to back it all up and how we can make it work.

I am not entirely sure I understand this whole game and that is because it is a game not for the regular people.

And so...let's talk about this.

What if we all bartered and traded with each other.

Stopped with global agriculture and brought it back home and respected the soil and the plants and the animals...no pesticides, no antibiotics, no hormones.

Just real, fresh and pure.

Solar and wind power...even wave power...sustainable energy.

Get rid of anything requiring petroleum...yes that includes PLASTIC!!!!!

That would be a great start!

(Hey, this is just me typing faster than I can string the words together...in excitement of the possibilities.)

Perhaps instead of waiting for more of the inevitable, "the collapse", we could just dismantle whatever is left and is not working right.

Edited September 29, 2008 by SpiritAlight

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

The only people who are pushing this stuff as essential are the guys in or around the govt. I must confess I don't know enough about it to know for sure whether it really is.

Certainly I'm not inclined to trust George Bush at face value. Perhaps it is necessary (though not really democratic), but we should never have been in this position to begin with. And now we're looking at scuttling the ship rather than trying to save it - neither solution sounds ideal.

I also didn't like how Bush kept saying only "most" of the money would be repaid...

Edited September 29, 2008 by Paul Daniels

[sly_wolf 199]

To be perfectly honest, I wasn't sold on the bailout, which they tried to ram through more quickly than the patriot act which I think most people agree was not given the scrutiny it deserved. There seem to be a lot of economists who agree and believe it would not work because it does no sufficiently address the practices that made it necessary in the first palce.

I smelled bull$hit when Paulsen (ex CEO of Gioldman Sachs no less), who was insisting last week that it be approved or we would face economic apocalypse stated that caps on executive compensation would be a "dealbreaker." Hang on - I thought the economy was going to implode? The executives would prefer economic apocalypse to not getting the appropriate severance packages? How can this be so?

I think it may be a case of the administration crying wolf too many times - the "Stimulus package" was similarly rail-roaded as I recall, and that did as much good as a fart in the wind.

While I don't generally hold with conspiracy theories, some of this stuff smells of people trying to cover up their own misdeeds.

It is interesting to hear that the failure of the vote is also being blamed on the republicans.

Sly

[SteveLaura 0]

NPR just had some news....the DOW down 550 points.

Are we having fun yet?

Look I really do not think we need some corporations to make our world go round.

The greed has caused this kerfuffle.

It's time to let it collapse and re-invent it better...let it work for the people....not just a few rich guys.

It'll happen. We'll return to bartering, mark my words. When the German economy collapsed after WWI, you needed a basket of notes to buy bread. Someone left theirs ouside a bakers by mistake. When they returned, the pile of money was there but someone had stolen the basket.

Oh, and I nearly forgot:

[Dr. Obvious 49]

IBOVESPA SAO PAULO (Brazil) down 12.69%.

[SpiritAlight 1]

oh, and if i hear the words "golden parachute" again,

I will throw up!

NPR just had some news....the DOW down 550 points.

Are we having fun yet?

Look I really do not think we need some corporations to make our world go round.

The greed has caused this kerfuffle.

It's time to let it collapse and re-invent it better...let it work for the people....not just a few rich guys.

It'll happen. We'll return to bartering, mark my words. When the German economy collapsed after WWI, you needed a basket of notes to buy bread. Someone left theirs ouside a bakers by mistake. When they returned, the pile of money was there but someone had stolen the basket.

Oh, and I nearly forgot:

Bahahaha!

Thanks for not disappointing.

I love that story about the bread.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

oh, and if i hear the words "golden parachute" again,

I will throw up!

I suspect a concrete overcoat would be more apt.

[rebeccajo 14]

This actually makes no sense.

Traditionally, if the bond markets are weak (and that's where all these band mortgage securities are) the stock market goes up.

This is lemming mentality, purely. The dollar is actually better right at the moment.