abortion or no abortion?

[akdiver 3]

Still digesting akdiver's proposal... hmmmm

If you really want, I'll send you my paper ("Climbing Mount Womb Is Me"). I'll have to find it and scan it it - in may take a few days. PM me if you want. Edited September 25, 2008 by akdiver

[Oosie 1]

That's generally a joint decision, men are hard to force. Or rather if you try to force them it's generally not hard enough.

No, a woman decides who comes in (except in cases of rape). A man only gets to decide whether to go in once approval has been granted.

There are TWO decisions being made, not one.

Are you seriously suggesting he doesn't get to decide if he want sex or not?

At some point the man makes that choice as does the women.

Nobody forces him and a man should know that sex carries the risk of pregnacy.

If he really wants to be sure he avoids that risk he can opt for celibacy, castration or a vasectomy ( though that isn't 100% guaranteed. Both partners need to take steps to protect themselves from an unwanted pregnancy but both must share the responsibility for any mistakes.

[jundp 191]

Pro-life / pro-choice are idiotic labels we have stuck on a complex personal situation.

Agreed (omg hell just froze!).

I am against abortion as I believe it is taking life. However, I do believe that going back to the pre-Roe V Wade days would be a mistake in this country. More lives would be lost.

I think the key here is education. I also think counseling should be required.

[akdiver 3]

Are you seriously suggesting he doesn't get to decide if he want sex or not?

No. I'm pointing out that while the man gets to decide if he WANTS sex or not, it's the woman who decides whether or not he actually has any.

[Oosie 1]

Pro-life / pro-choice are idiotic labels we have stuck on a complex personal situation.

Agreed (omg hell just froze!).

I am against abortion as I believe it is taking life. However, I do believe that going back to the pre-Roe V Wade days would be a mistake in this country. More lives would be lost.

I think the key here is education. I also think counseling should be required.

Who do you think should provide the counselling?

It's such an emotive subject and the cousellor is going to have a difficult time keeping personal feelings out.

I know a lot of pro life groups offer abortion counselling and provide women with misinformation about the long term effects of abortion. I also think it's possible for pro choice advocates to be too dismissive of real concerns a women may have.

Do you think it's possible to have completely unbiased counselling available for women faced with the decision of whether to contunire with a pregnancy or not?

Are you seriously suggesting he doesn't get to decide if he want sex or not?

No. I'm pointing out that while the man gets to decide if he WANTS sex or not, it's the woman who decides whether or not he actually has any.

The man had the same power, if she wants him and he isn't interested he also has the right to say know.

[akdiver 3]

The man had the same power, if she wants him and he isn't interested he also has the right to say know.

I never said he doesn't determine whether or not he DOES NOT get sex...only that he does not determine whether or he DOES get sex.

[Oosie 1]

The man had the same power, if she wants him and he isn't interested he also has the right to say know.

I never said he doesn't determine whether or not he DOES NOT get sex...only that he does not determine whether or he DOES get sex.

But that is no different to the woman's rights, she may or may not get what she wants.

Whether to have sex or not is a mutual decision. No one person has the power to make it happen nor should they. Both people have the power to say no.

[Sister Fracas 5]

The man had the same power, if she wants him and he isn't interested he also has the right to say know.

I never said he doesn't determine whether or not he DOES NOT get sex...only that he does not determine whether or he DOES get sex.

But that is no different to the woman's rights, she may or may not get what she wants.

Whether to have sex or not is a mutual decision. No one person has the power to make it happen nor should they. Both people have the power to say no.

realistically, how often is a man gonna say no?

[akdiver 3]

But that is no different to the woman's rights, she may or may not get what she wants. Whether to have sex or not is a mutual decision. No one person has the power to make it happen nor should they. Both people have the power to say no.

Do try to pay attention.

The woman gets to decide whether or not she wants sex, and whether the man gets sex with her.

The man gets to decide whether or not he wants sex, and whether the woman gets sex with him.

It ain't that complicated man. I dunno why you went off on this tangent.

realistically, how often is a man gonna say no?

Results vary.

I've told three different women no. Why?? Didn't want to get stuck with the cost of a baby. Just not worth it. Not even close to worth it.

Edited September 25, 2008 by akdiver

[Sister Fracas 5]

realistically, how often is a man gonna say no?

Results vary.

I've told three different women no. Why?? Didn't want to get stuck with the cost of a baby. Just not worth it. Not even close to worth it.

relax AK... lol

I DO think your proposal is an interesting one. Would be hard to implement though as the issue of having a baby goes way beyond financial considerations. Emotions and all that...

[Oosie 1]

But that is no different to the woman's rights, she may or may not get what she wants. Whether to have sex or not is a mutual decision. No one person has the power to make it happen nor should they. Both people have the power to say no.

Do try to pay attention.

The woman gets to decide whether or not she wants sex, and whether the man gets sex with her.

The man gets to decide whether or not he wants sex, and whether the woman gets sex with him.

It ain't that complicated man. I dunno why you went off on this tangent.

I think the tangent is yours, you seemed to have trouble accepting it's a two way street. You're the one who keeps insisting that the woman gets to choose whether you have sex though suddenly now you seem to see the light and agree it goes both ways. - Oosie _ I messed up the quotes and make this look like akdiver said it - my apologies

realistically, how often is a man gonna say no?

Results vary.

I've told three different women no. Why?? Didn't want to get stuck with the cost of a baby. Just not worth it. Not even close to worth it.

I can think of plenty men who would say no. Not wanting to risk a baby is a great reason to only have sex with a woman you trust.

Realistically speaking I can think of a few men I would love to f**k but I wouldn't even waste my time asking as I know I'm too old and that they are into women a lot younger than me. I could always try to get some hot young guy drunk but by the time he was drunk enough he would be too drunk to perform. On top of that I think it's despicable for a man to get a woman drunk to get past her better judgement so I have to behave by the same standards myself.

Edited September 25, 2008 by Oosie

[Sister Fracas 5]

I can think of plenty men who would say no. Not wanting to risk a baby is a great reason to only have sex with a woman you trust.

Realistically speaking I can think of a few men I would love to f**k but I wouldn't even waste my time asking as I know I'm too old and that they are into women a lot younger than me. I could always try to get some hot young guy drunk but by the time he was drunk enough he would be too drunk to perform. On top of that I think it's despicable for a man to get a woman drunk to get past her better judgement so I have to behave by the same standards myself.

are you married?

[akdiver 3]

I DO think your proposal is an interesting one. Would be hard to implement though as the issue of having a baby goes way beyond financial considerations. Emotions and all that...

Well, again, my focus here is on a parallel and equitable choice for men, that's all. I have no interest at all in preventing or limiting the choice of women to do whatever they want with their body and its contents. Merely, given that women have the choice whether or not to abort, giving men the parallel and equivalent choice to abort financial and parental consequences. That's all...no real magic to it. It's straightforward.

Realistically speaking I can think of a few men I would love to f**k but I wouldn't even waste my time asking as I know I'm too old and that they are into women a lot younger than me. I could always try to get some hot young guy drunk but by the time he was drunk enough he would be too drunk to perform. On top of that I think it's despicable for a man to get a woman drunk to get past her better judgement so I have to behave by the same standards myself.

Generally speaking, the data indicate that most men would be happy to #### you - as long as that's all you want. It's the relationship that they are more choosy about. If you're just looking for sex, the data are pretty positive that you will get it. The data suggest that just the opposite is true for men.

[Sister Fracas 5]

Well, again, my focus here is on a parallel and equitable choice for men, that's all. I have no interest at all in preventing or limiting the choice of women to do whatever they want with their body and its contents. Merely, given that women have the choice whether or not to abort, giving men the parallel and equivalent choice to abort financial and parental consequences. That's all...no real magic to it. It's straightforward.

yah... I get it. And I don't disagree.

Generally speaking, the data indicate that most men would be happy to #### you - as long as that's all you want. It's the relationship that they are more choosy about. If you're just looking for sex, the data are pretty positive that you will get it. The data suggest that just the opposite is true for men.

Funny how that is..... LOL

[akdiver 3]

Funny how that is..... LOL

Yes...another inequity. But at least this one is not caused by government interference in peoples' lives.