RANT: Government Sucks

[DeadPoolX 9]

So I've put off getting my SIN and PR Card because my wife and I were looking for a new apartment in another province. We figured that the Canadian government would need the correct address to ship both to and since we wouldn't be staying very long at our current one, it didn't seem logical to supply them with that.

Obviously, logic and government are the polar opposites of each other.

When I "landed" in Canada, the psycho immigration officer demanded to know my address. I told her that where I'm staying now would not be my permanent address, since my wife and I would be moving very soon. She barely let me finish, told me to "zip it" and said, "Give me your address or you aren't getting in." Well, I complied and told her it, even though it wouldn't be my address for much longer. She then handed me a "change of address" form for the PR card and told me to go.

After several weeks of looking, my wife and I found our new place, so I looked over the form the immigration officer had tossed at me. There was a government website address on it, which claimed I could fill in the necessary information online. I liked that -- especially since I hate speaking to low-paid non-interested government employees -- and attempted to go there, only to find that the URL no longer existed. Using Google, I found the new link, but I was a little annoyed that forms were being given out with non-existent website addresses on them. I filled out the info and sent it off.

My SIN was next, so I filled out that form by hand and brought that into the Canadian Government service center. They took it, processed it and gave me a sheet of paper with my SIN on it, to use as a temporary measure until my card gets mailed to me.

All sounds good, right? Guess again!

I had a nagging feeling that writing the "change of address" form online wouldn't be enough, so I asked the lady in the SIN department about it. She said whatever address was written down at the time I entered Canada as a permanent resident is where my PR card will be shipped to. I arrived on August 14th and since it supposedly takes 30 working days (six weeks) for it to arrive, the card had likely been shipped out already and is headed to my soon-to-be-old address.

I immediately went to the immigration office to ask them about this and at first, the lady there said my card was going to my new address. She then took back her words, smiled and laughed and said, "No, it's going to the original one on file." She then handed me a sheet with a number to call.

I get home and call that number. The very unfriendly CSR who answers tells me I have two options: I can either forward my mail to my new address (which is what I'm going to do) or wait for the card to be returned and have a new one issued again, starting the six-week cycle over. While I understood she couldn't do much after-the-fact, her attitude pissed me off. Her tone of voice indicated that she felt she was doing me a favor my even speaking to me.

Then I noticed something as I get off the phone. There were two glaring errors on my SIN. The number seemed correct (how would I know if it wasn't?), but my new address was missing the apartment number (which is probably useful if I'd like to actually receive my mail) and they somehow managed to misspell my name.

I called them up too. The much-more-friendly CSR gladly fixed my address (or so she said; at this point, I don't exactly have a whole lot of faith in these departments), but stubbornly refused to do anything about my name. She said, "I can't change your name since that's what Immigration Canada has written down."

Let's see here... I've had my name my whole life and Immigration Canada has had access to it for maybe seven or eight months (including the entire visa process) at most, yet they seem to think they know what my name is better than I do. Call my crazy, but I think they made a mistake. Every piece of documentation from the United States can prove it too, including my birth certificate, driver's license and passport. Going beyond the U.S., the Canadian Consulate General in Los Angeles and my marriage certificate (which is from British Columbia) has it written correctly too!

Regardless, she refused. She did, however, tell me that if I wanted it changed (gee, ya think?) I'd need to go to an Immigration Canada office in-person, convince them it was an error on their part, and have them print out documents showing I am correct. Once I do that, I'll need to hotfoot it over to the SIN office, hand over the papers I've received from Immigration Canada, and then they'll supply me with a fully corrected name on my SIN.

That seems a little unnecessary, doesn't it? I understand it's due to bureaucracy, but I really do think I'd know my name by now, seeing as how I'm getting pretty close to 30. If they asked me to "pat my head and rub my stomach" at the same time, well... that might not work so well, but I do know my name.

All in all, it's been a very, very lousy day.

[Sprailenes 47]

Aww haha its like a mirror image of all of us except you're on the other side. I'm sorry DP, I hope things look up for you soon.

[Kathryn41 3,205]

Deadpool - go to the local office of your Member of Parliament. Even though the House has rise and the government is dissolved, existing MPs still keep staff in the offices to handle problems such as this. They should be able to mediate on your behalf with immigration to get the documents corrected. Good luck.

[jedinite 0]

DP maybe you should have remained in SoCal, the weather is so much better there too

Ok, enough teasing. I absolutely agree with you, gov't employees can be a bit robotic and moronic when it comes to common-sense things. But if they were efficient at their jobs we wouldn't need to hire as many of them and we'd all save a bunch on taxes. That goes against the nature of the universe though and anything that should be easy isn't.

Hope you get things sorted out soon.

[trailmix 77]

I hate speaking to low-paid non-interested government employees

Correction! The non-interested government employees in Canada are well paid.

So where are you moving to?

[Emancipation 2]

ugh.. sorry for the incompetency of the gov. workers.. it's comforting to know they are on both sides of the border though! Hang in there!! It'll be worth it to live in Canada I PROMISE!!

[SpiritAlight 1]

Shitty!

[Reba 2]

So, how's those shoes fittin'?

[Carlawarla 1]

Aww haha its like a mirror image of all of us except you're on the other side. I'm sorry DP, I hope things look up for you soon.

Really! Except we can't just got to an office and hand in forms...we have to mail them and wait months for them to come. Wrong name? Heck, there are people here waiting up to a year to have a new GC sent out with their correctly spelled name on it.

You should really have your mail forwarded DeadPoolX. I've never heard of anyone in Canada that doesn't do this. Your wife will be doing it too I would suspect? Just put both your names on the card when you do this.

Just go to the office with the documentation that says your name in error, with your BC etc. and they'll send in a change of name. No biggie.

Where are you moving?

[thetreble 19]

Yes but hopefully it had not been sent out previous to DP changing the apartment number on the mailing address since it was not there in the first place.

How stressful. Governments all over the world are constantly making very small, critical errors. It's very annoying to us citizens and immigrants just trying to get our stuff done properly. I'm sorry they were such Aholes to you. I know how that feels on both sides of the pond.

I lost my SIN card two years back and paid for a new one. I found the old one and was NEVER mailed a new one. M-F's!

[antda 13]

Hi DeadPoolX,

Sorry that you had to go through all that trouble in Canada to get your SIN card, with the correct address and name on it. Gee, you would think that they would know that you of all people would know your own name, and that when you say change it correctly they should listen to such and not make you run around to correct it. I hope you get your SIN soon, and you don't have to deal with any more frustrations from the government anymore.

I guess it goes to show how governments work, in an incompentent way, regardless of country.

If it makes you feel any better, I had problems with the SSN here in the USA. And yes I have learned too that having an SSN is very important here in the USA, as it is asked for pretty much everything around here. When I applied for my SSN, I had to wait until after I got my green card, to do so. And even after that, there was still a delay, as they wanted to see the actual green card/I-551 (I did not have/apply for an EAD), with my Canadian passport, marriage certificate, birth certificate, Canadian identification, etc. They didn't even care/take into account that there was a valid I-551 stamp in my Canadian passport which I got after I was approved for the AOS interview in the same week, before they could issue me an SSN. So even with my Canadian passport with the I-551 stamp in it, it didn't help, as they wanted to see the actual green card, and didn't even tell me about it. I had actually phoned on several ocassions and asked what the heck was going on as I was waiting for several weeks, to which I got no answer for. I then showed up in-person at the SSA office in the middle of a snowy winter day, then found out what the problem was (they wanted to see my actual card), showed them my green card, got that resolved, and finally got my SSN card in the mail shortly after, even though I had to wait an extra 8 weeks from when I originally applied for that oh so important SSN card...grrr.....

I was surprised too, that when I got my SSN, it was on a flimsy piece of paper. Gee, you would think that they would put it in plastic or something, since it is used often. And I found it funny too, that it says "not to carry it with you", even though almost everyone around here asks for it, so much so, that I've pretty much had to memorize it (and hope that it's correct, as I can't seem to remember numbers correctly) because I can't carry it with me...lol....

At least with the Canadian SIN, it's in plastic, it actually says "carry it with you", and you barely even use it (for work, financial, and taxes purposes only, and not much else). Lol...heck, when I was in Canada, I didn't even know my SIN number, without looking at the card, as nobody asked for it. In fact, I felt like leaving that SIN card at home, as I didn't need it and it took up unnecessary space in my wallet..lol....

Ant (Oh the SSN woes....)

So I've put off getting my SIN and PR Card because my wife and I were looking for a new apartment in another province. We figured that the Canadian government would need the correct address to ship both to and since we wouldn't be staying very long at our current one, it didn't seem logical to supply them with that.

Obviously, logic and government are the polar opposites of each other.

When I "landed" in Canada, the psycho immigration officer demanded to know my address. I told her that where I'm staying now would not be my permanent address, since my wife and I would be moving very soon. She barely let me finish, told me to "zip it" and said, "Give me your address or you aren't getting in." Well, I complied and told her it, even though it wouldn't be my address for much longer. She then handed me a "change of address" form for the PR card and told me to go.

After several weeks of looking, my wife and I found our new place, so I looked over the form the immigration officer had tossed at me. There was a government website address on it, which claimed I could fill in the necessary information online. I liked that -- especially since I hate speaking to low-paid non-interested government employees -- and attempted to go there, only to find that the URL no longer existed. Using Google, I found the new link, but I was a little annoyed that forms were being given out with non-existent website addresses on them. I filled out the info and sent it off.

My SIN was next, so I filled out that form by hand and brought that into the Canadian Government service center. They took it, processed it and gave me a sheet of paper with my SIN on it, to use as a temporary measure until my card gets mailed to me.

All sounds good, right? Guess again!

I had a nagging feeling that writing the "change of address" form online wouldn't be enough, so I asked the lady in the SIN department about it. She said whatever address was written down at the time I entered Canada as a permanent resident is where my PR card will be shipped to. I arrived on August 14th and since it supposedly takes 30 working days (six weeks) for it to arrive, the card had likely been shipped out already and is headed to my soon-to-be-old address.

I immediately went to the immigration office to ask them about this and at first, the lady there said my card was going to my new address. She then took back her words, smiled and laughed and said, "No, it's going to the original one on file." She then handed me a sheet with a number to call.

I get home and call that number. The very unfriendly CSR who answers tells me I have two options: I can either forward my mail to my new address (which is what I'm going to do) or wait for the card to be returned and have a new one issued again, starting the six-week cycle over. While I understood she couldn't do much after-the-fact, her attitude pissed me off. Her tone of voice indicated that she felt she was doing me a favor my even speaking to me.

Then I noticed something as I get off the phone. There were two glaring errors on my SIN. The number seemed correct (how would I know if it wasn't?), but my new address was missing the apartment number (which is probably useful if I'd like to actually receive my mail) and they somehow managed to misspell my name.

I called them up too. The much-more-friendly CSR gladly fixed my address (or so she said; at this point, I don't exactly have a whole lot of faith in these departments), but stubbornly refused to do anything about my name. She said, "I can't change your name since that's what Immigration Canada has written down."

Let's see here... I've had my name my whole life and Immigration Canada has had access to it for maybe seven or eight months (including the entire visa process) at most, yet they seem to think they know what my name is better than I do. Call my crazy, but I think they made a mistake. Every piece of documentation from the United States can prove it too, including my birth certificate, driver's license and passport. Going beyond the U.S., the Canadian Consulate General in Los Angeles and my marriage certificate (which is from British Columbia) has it written correctly too!

Regardless, she refused. She did, however, tell me that if I wanted it changed (gee, ya think?) I'd need to go to an Immigration Canada office in-person, convince them it was an error on their part, and have them print out documents showing I am correct. Once I do that, I'll need to hotfoot it over to the SIN office, hand over the papers I've received from Immigration Canada, and then they'll supply me with a fully corrected name on my SIN.

That seems a little unnecessary, doesn't it? I understand it's due to bureaucracy, but I really do think I'd know my name by now, seeing as how I'm getting pretty close to 30. If they asked me to "pat my head and rub my stomach" at the same time, well... that might not work so well, but I do know my name.

All in all, it's been a very, very lousy day.

Edited September 26, 2008 by AntandD

[DeadPoolX 9]

Well, here's an update...

My wife and I went down to both the immigration and SIN offices at the Canadian Government building this morning. We decided it made more sense to check with Immigration Canada first, since the SIN office had stated that they couldn't change anything without approval from them. So after a short wait in line, the extremely irritable and less-than-interested woman working the desk told me shouldn't help, since my "landing papers" had my name written incorrectly.

I replied that it was a mistake (and one I didn't make), so I would like it fixed. At the very least, I would like it written correctly within the government databanks and a printout that I could take to the SIN office. Once again, the woman refused and stated that this was a "common problem" and it's "not a big deal if my name is written like that." She then proceeded to ignore me.

As I'm sure many of you can tell by now, I have a temper. I don't like being screwed with. I raised my voice to a level that indicated extreme annoyance (but not shouting) and told her that I want this fixed, and if she couldn't help me, there must be someone there that could. Pointing to some chairs nearby, she told my wife and I to sit down and that someone would be by soon to talk to us. My wife urged me to sit, so I did. That was probably a good thing too, since at that point, I felt like eviscerating that lady.

After about ten minutes, that same rude and obnoxious lady called me to her desk. She asked for some information (mainly my Client ID) and I heard her say to whoever she was speaking with over the phone, "No... he's acting ridiculous and won't just accept his name as it is." Yeah, I'm sure she wouldn't mind have her name altered by the government of a country she recently moved to and then get told to just "deal with it."

So another 20 minutes or so passed and someone -- I can only assume it was the manager or whatever title she may have held -- showed up and called me over. She explained to me the error they made and supplied me with a document from Immigration Canada (signed by an immigration officer) in order to allow the SIN office to process my request. The manager said that if this didn't work, I might have to request the SIN office change my middle name to a single initial or drop it altogether. I replied that I'd asked to do that already, but they refused and said they were unable to do it. The manager thought that was odd and then said that I may have just been unlucky and spoken to a jerk. She also added that the immigration officer who processed my entrance into Canada could have fixed my name. I told her about my awful experience coming in, where neglecting to inform me that name corrections could be done at that time was the least of my worries. She suggested I make a complaint, which I might still do.

With that document in-hand, my wife and I made our way to the SIN office. Once we sat down for a one-on-one with someone there, the woman said that since my "landing papers" had my middle name spelled a certain way (correct or not), they had to go with that. I informed her that there was an error and provided her with my passport, my visa, my marriage certificate and the signed document from Immigration Canada -- all of which had my middle name spelled correctly. She bluntly told me that it didn't matter what I showed her. All she could go by was what's on the "landing papers."

I said that I filled out my SIN application with the correct middle name. She shrugged and said that they "perform an interactive application" there, and don't bother with the paper applications. My wife wanted to know why I was told to fill one out then. The lady said that it's procedure, but they don't look at them.

At this point, I was thinking I had found my second candidate for evisceration and it wasn't even noon yet. I decided to ask if I could drop my middle name. The lady replied, "Yes, you can do that. But it'll be a $10 service fee." I questioned why I couldn't have done this before or why I wasn't allowed to do it previously. She said I couldn't do this over the phone and if in-person, I need to ask.

Apparently, I need to know they'll screw up my application before they do in order to stop it from happening. That has to be one of the most ridiculous ideas I've ever heard. Naturally, that's how government works.

I told her that I'd pay the fee and drop my middle name. Before I could speak again, she stated that if I paid in cash, I'd need to give her exact change. Since I didn't have a ten dollar bill on me, I handed her my debit card. However, since my U.S. debit card has the MasterCard logo on it, she insisted it wasn't a debit card, but a credit card and told me it would be processed as such. Knowing I wouldn't win an argument with this halfwit, I handed her a Visa credit card that I earn miles on instead. I found it somewhat amusing that she got annoyed when I demanded to see my information before I signed my name on the charge.

Finally, when it was all done and everything was (supposedly) fixed, she attempted to "chat" with us and act friendly. My wife and I did the bare minimum as far as niceties were concerned, but we were sick of the blatant stupidity there. Besides, neither of us were too interested in talking to someone who basically "used the system" to wrangle a little more money out of us for something that should have been done right the first time.

That's about it.

[Texanadian 10]

I remember going to get my SIN number in Canada. I was about 14 years old. I walked in. Waited for the person in line to finish. Then walked up, filled out the form and left. Whole thing took 5 minutes tops.

When I got my US SS number, I spent 45 minutes in line behind about 30 people. The first 45 minutes nobody at the window was taking any customers. After that it was another 30-35 minutes to get to the window. Borrrrrrring. And I showed up at 10:30AM. It wasn't like I showed up before the staff got there.

[DeadPoolX 9]

I was surprised too, that when I got my SSN, it was on a flimsy piece of paper. Gee, you would think that they would put it in plastic or something, since it is used often. And I found it funny too, that it says "not to carry it with you", even though almost everyone around here asks for it, so much so, that I've pretty much had to memorize it (and hope that it's correct, as I can't seem to remember numbers correctly) because I can't carry it with me...lol....

The reason they say "don't carry it with you" is because the American SSN, unlike the Canadian SIN, is used for far more than just employment purposes. Just about every organization -- including credit card companies, health insurance providers, universities and employers -- need to see your SSN. Someone's SSN can, in many cases, identify them (and everything about them, too). Although the U.S government states that "Americans are not identified by social security numbers," that's not true and everyone knows it.

In recent years, many organizations have shied away from using the SSN as a catch-all identifier, since the Internet allows for a greater opportunity to conduct "identity theft." For instance, there was a time (as recent as the 1980s) that universities would post test scores outside classrooms and in hallways, using the SSN to identify each student.

As for getting your SSN on a "flimsy piece of paper," that's normal. No one I've ever met has carried their SSN card on them. I'm not even entirely sure where mine is, other than "somewhere at my dad's house." You basically have to memorize it, which is pretty easy (it's almost as long as a ten-digit telephone number) and you'll be required to use it so often, you probably won't forget it anytime soon. The most important part of any SSN are the last four numbers, as most organizations use those as "proof of identity."

I remember going to get my SIN number in Canada. I was about 14 years old. I walked in. Waited for the person in line to finish. Then walked up, filled out the form and left. Whole thing took 5 minutes tops.

When I got my US SS number, I spent 45 minutes in line behind about 30 people. The first 45 minutes nobody at the window was taking any customers. After that it was another 30-35 minutes to get to the window. Borrrrrrring. And I showed up at 10:30AM. It wasn't like I showed up before the staff got there.

Had the Canadian government spelled my name correctly, I'm sure the process of getting my SIN would have been quite smooth. I honestly don't know how difficult it is to get an SSN, however, since U.S. citizens receive one at birth.

[Reba 2]

When I got my US SS number, I spent 45 minutes in line behind about 30 people. The first 45 minutes nobody at the window was taking any customers. After that it was another 30-35 minutes to get to the window. Borrrrrrring. And I showed up at 10:30AM. It wasn't like I showed up before the staff got there.

When I went for mine, we got there before the doors were opened and there was already a line snaked around the building. I got in, took a number, sat there for several hours, got up went out for lunch, went back, and sat for several more hours before my number was called.

I got my SIN by applying thru my highschool in grade 12. It was relatively painless. Now they do them at birth I think. I think my sister said something about filling out the paperwork for her babies when they were born.