Liberals' Warnings About Obama Loss May Prove Self-Fulfilling

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I DO think it's fair to say that there exists a segment of the population, however small or large, that won't vote for Obama because he's black...and/or Muslim ( ). HOWEVER, they probably wouldn't have been voting for any Democrat anyway.

Sure there is. Just like there is another segment of the population that will do the same. Given some more recent poll data about race and the choice... we can conclude that race IS a factor for some people... but that has always been there. I just think it will be less and less every subsequent election independent of how much the loudest objectors to race reasons deny they are that way.

yah... and on the flip side...apparently some women will vote for McCain/Pailin simply because Palin is a woman...

craziness....

I was a little bemused to see that there are celebrity magazines promoting Palin's fashion style. It takes all sorts I guess...

[HAL 9000 96]

I DO think it's fair to say that there exists a segment of the population, however small or large, that won't vote for Obama because he's black...and/or Muslim ( ). HOWEVER, they probably wouldn't have been voting for any Democrat anyway.

Sure there is. Just like there is another segment of the population that will do the same. Given some more recent poll data about race and the choice... we can conclude that race IS a factor for some people... but that has always been there. I just think it will be less and less every subsequent election independent of how much the loudest objectors to race reasons deny they are that way.

yah... and on the flip side...apparently some women will vote for McCain/Pailin simply because Palin is a woman...

craziness....

Hence the strategy of choosing Palin. There are no real surprises here.

[Sister Fracas 5]

I DO think it's fair to say that there exists a segment of the population, however small or large, that won't vote for Obama because he's black...and/or Muslim ( ). HOWEVER, they probably wouldn't have been voting for any Democrat anyway.

Sure there is. Just like there is another segment of the population that will do the same. Given some more recent poll data about race and the choice... we can conclude that race IS a factor for some people... but that has always been there. I just think it will be less and less every subsequent election independent of how much the loudest objectors to race reasons deny they are that way.

yah... and on the flip side...apparently some women will vote for McCain/Pailin simply because Palin is a woman...

craziness....

I was a little bemused to see that there are celebrity magazines promoting Palin's fashion style. It takes all sorts I guess...

Apparently the style of her eye glasses has caused a bit of a frenzy with opticians. Woman are running out to buy glasses in the same style??? Don't understand that either... Gaaaah!

I DO think it's fair to say that there exists a segment of the population, however small or large, that won't vote for Obama because he's black...and/or Muslim ( ). HOWEVER, they probably wouldn't have been voting for any Democrat anyway.

Sure there is. Just like there is another segment of the population that will do the same. Given some more recent poll data about race and the choice... we can conclude that race IS a factor for some people... but that has always been there. I just think it will be less and less every subsequent election independent of how much the loudest objectors to race reasons deny they are that way.

yah... and on the flip side...apparently some women will vote for McCain/Pailin simply because Palin is a woman...

craziness....

Hence the strategy of choosing Palin. There are no real surprises here.

I worry about the people that fall for it...

[alienlovechild 75]

I just think it will be less and less every subsequent election independent of how much the loudest objectors to race reasons deny they are that way.

You mean like the example below?

Speaking for myself - I can saying fairly confidently that I won't be decrying racism if Obama loses

In reality, the more toward racial tolerance has followed religious tolerance. In 1960, we had a Catholic president and it was big deal but few noted we had Jewish VP candidate in 2000. In short term, if Obama loses, there won't be another black candidate taken seriously in the Dem primaries for least the next 20 years. As far as gender goes, remember that after 1984 with female VP candidate, it took another 24 years for two women to get close to the White House.

[HAL 9000 96]

I just think it will be less and less every subsequent election independent of how much the loudest objectors to race reasons deny they are that way.

You mean like the example below?

Speaking for myself - I can saying fairly confidently that I won't be decrying racism if Obama loses

In reality, the more toward racial tolerance has followed religious tolerance. In 1960, we had a Catholic president and it was big deal but few noted we had Jewish VP candidate in 2000. In short term, if Obama loses, there won't be another black candidate taken seriously in the Dem primaries for least the next 20 years. As far as gender goes, remember that after 1984 with female VP candidate, it took another 24 years for two women to get close to the White House.

For that 'example' to make sense, you first have to find evidence that the originator has displayed some kind of sign of racism. Which to my knowledge, he has not.

As for timing, I do not claim clairvoyance and do not seek to pass off an incomplete 'analysis' as complete. For example- there are always going to be new kids on the block to be potentially taken seriously. Boys and Girls. Black, Brown, and White. Specially with the changing demography that is the USA. Hence your conclusion may be quite incorrect.

Edited September 23, 2008 by maviwaro

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I just think it will be less and less every subsequent election independent of how much the loudest objectors to race reasons deny they are that way.

You mean like the example below?

Speaking for myself - I can saying fairly confidently that I won't be decrying racism if Obama loses

In reality, the more toward racial tolerance has followed religious tolerance. In 1960, we had a Catholic president and it was big deal but few noted we had Jewish VP candidate in 2000. In short term, if Obama loses, there won't be another black candidate taken seriously in the Dem primaries for least the next 20 years. As far as gender goes, remember that after 1984 with female VP candidate, it took another 24 years for two women to get close to the White House.

As I said - I won't be decrying racism if Obama loses. I do think its funny that this angle of criticism has been injected into his campaign - I'm well aware that race plays a part in Obama's popularity, just as gender did for Hillary. What I object to is the comments by people like Geraldine Ferraro who offer ridiculous simplifications to suggest that some sort of race novelty is the only appeal that Obama has and is the primary reason for his popularity. A gross simplification if ever there was one...

Of course when the assumption is that anyone who supports Obama is some sort of irrational, far left nutjob (our self-declared right-wing conservative friend Boo-Yah indicated the other day that he'd "probably support" Obama) is more than a little amusing.

Demonising the opposition in general terms is old hat.

Edited September 23, 2008 by Paul Daniels

[jundp 191]

...and on the flip side...apparently some women will vote for McCain/Pailin simply because Palin is a woman...

craziness....

That is what bothers me the most. The same as people who will only vote for Obama because he's black. But the switching affiliations and (apparently) beliefs simply because a woman is in the running for VP boggles the mind.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I just think it will be less and less every subsequent election independent of how much the loudest objectors to race reasons deny they are that way.

You mean like the example below?

Speaking for myself - I can saying fairly confidently that I won't be decrying racism if Obama loses

In reality, the more toward racial tolerance has followed religious tolerance. In 1960, we had a Catholic president and it was big deal but few noted we had Jewish VP candidate in 2000. In short term, if Obama loses, there won't be another black candidate taken seriously in the Dem primaries for least the next 20 years. As far as gender goes, remember that after 1984 with female VP candidate, it took another 24 years for two women to get close to the White House.

For that 'example' to make sense, you first have to find evidence that the originator has displayed some kind of sign of racism. Which to my knowledge, he has not.

As for timing, I do not claim clairvoyance and do not seek to pass off an incomplete 'analysis' as complete. For example- there are always going to be new kids on the block to be potentially taken seriously. Boys and Girls. Black, Brown, and White. Specially with the changing demography that is the USA. Hence your conclusion may be quite incorrect.

The only comments I've made in regards to the impact of race in the Obama campaign are in relation to comments like those of Geraldine Ferraro. I accept as a given that there may well be people who vote for superficial reasons, not just race or gender - but at a more simple level - by party. I suspect there's a few people who are simply in love with what they feel a certain party represents, and their voting decisions are driven more by preconceived ideas than by specifics about what individual candidates represent.

Certainly there's been plenty of dismissive rhetoric flying around all over the shop over the last few months.

[HAL 9000 96]

I just think it will be less and less every subsequent election independent of how much the loudest objectors to race reasons deny they are that way.

You mean like the example below?

Speaking for myself - I can saying fairly confidently that I won't be decrying racism if Obama loses

In reality, the more toward racial tolerance has followed religious tolerance. In 1960, we had a Catholic president and it was big deal but few noted we had Jewish VP candidate in 2000. In short term, if Obama loses, there won't be another black candidate taken seriously in the Dem primaries for least the next 20 years. As far as gender goes, remember that after 1984 with female VP candidate, it took another 24 years for two women to get close to the White House.

For that 'example' to make sense, you first have to find evidence that the originator has displayed some kind of sign of racism. Which to my knowledge, he has not.

As for timing, I do not claim clairvoyance and do not seek to pass off an incomplete 'analysis' as complete. For example- there are always going to be new kids on the block to be potentially taken seriously. Boys and Girls. Black, Brown, and White. Specially with the changing demography that is the USA. Hence your conclusion may be quite incorrect.

The only comments I've made in regards to the impact of race in the Obama campaign are in relation to comments like those of Geraldine Ferraro. I accept as a given that there may well be people who vote for superficial reasons, not just race or gender - but at a more simple level - by party. I suspect there's a few people who are simply in love with what they feel a certain party represents, and their voting decisions are driven more by preconceived ideas than by specifics about what individual candidates represent.

Certainly there's been plenty of dismissive rhetoric flying around all over the shop over the last few months.

Which is why I think superficiality and reasons rooted in a closet hatred or not so closet pride are ancillary support reasons to the main trunk of why people vote: political platforms. All other "issues" sidestep this main factor and can be quite easily inflated to look like whatever the person analyzing wants it to look like.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I have to ask why people are dissuaded from Obama because of silly things. As I said yesterday - my MIL told me recently that she wouldn't vote for him because of that lapel pin incident and whether or not he put his hand over his heart during the pledge of allegiance. Both of those incidents were later derided as I recall, and it certainly if this was a big concern it wouldn't be difficult to seek clarification of those episodes.

In short, I think that quite a lot of people make political judgements about election candidates based on preconceived ideas, but feel the need to disguise this bias by focussing on one or two non-issues to justify the stance.

[kaydee457 13]

Just a few months ago - people were decrying that Obama beat Hillary unfairly because he had a unfair racial advantage, and that Geraldine Ferraro was therefore perfectly correct in her assertion that race explained the majority of Obama's approval.

Now - if Obama loses, it must be due to race. Who honestly believes that...

Liberals, and liberal democrats will believe that as this article postulates. The article is very prophetic.

There will be anger, most likely manifesting itself into riots and property damage in the streets of most big cities where blacks reside.

As an aside-

One reason is the liberal elite's contempt for white Americans with less education -- even if they are Democrats.

There's that word associated with "librul" again...

Edited September 23, 2008 by kaydee457

[HAL 9000 96]

I have to ask why people are dissuaded from Obama because of silly things. As I said yesterday - my MIL told me recently that she wouldn't vote for him because of that lapel pin incident and whether or not he put his hand over his heart during the pledge of allegiance. Both of those incidents were later derided as I recall, and it certainly if this was a big concern it wouldn't be difficult to seek clarification of those episodes.

In short, I think that quite a lot of people make political judgements about election candidates based on preconceived ideas, but feel the need to disguise this bias by focussing on one or two non-issues to justify the stance.

Sadly, many people will mask one petty reason to not approve of someone with another petty reason. That is a hallmark of being in denial while not wanting to accept that even the real reasons that move some folks are quite silly.

Just a few months ago - people were decrying that Obama beat Hillary unfairly because he had a unfair racial advantage, and that Geraldine Ferraro was therefore perfectly correct in her assertion that race explained the majority of Obama's approval.

Now - if Obama loses, it must be due to race. Who honestly believes that...

Liberals, and liberal democrats will believe that as this article postulates. The article is very prophetic.

There will be anger, most likely manifesting itself into riots and property damage in the streets of most big cities where blacks reside.

As an aside-

One reason is the liberal elite's contempt for white Americans with less education -- even if they are Democrats.

There's that word associated with "librul" again...

Gee... I guess I better buy a rifle then.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Just a few months ago - people were decrying that Obama beat Hillary unfairly because he had a unfair racial advantage, and that Geraldine Ferraro was therefore perfectly correct in her assertion that race explained the majority of Obama's approval.

Now - if Obama loses, it must be due to race. Who honestly believes that...

Liberals, and liberal democrats will believe that as this article postulates. The article is very prophetic.

There will be anger, most likely manifesting itself into riots and property damage in the streets of most big cities where blacks reside.

As an aside-

One reason is the liberal elite's contempt for white Americans with less education -- even if they are Democrats.

There's that word associated with "librul" again...

If you say so - but given that you've already painted me as a stereotypical librul I wonder how you'll react when I subvert your expectations...

[kaydee457 13]

Just a few months ago - people were decrying that Obama beat Hillary unfairly because he had a unfair racial advantage, and that Geraldine Ferraro was therefore perfectly correct in her assertion that race explained the majority of Obama's approval.

Now - if Obama loses, it must be due to race. Who honestly believes that...

Liberals, and liberal democrats will believe that as this article postulates. The article is very prophetic.

There will be anger, most likely manifesting itself into riots and property damage in the streets of most big cities where blacks reside.

As an aside-

One reason is the liberal elite's contempt for white Americans with less education -- even if they are Democrats.

There's that word associated with "librul" again...

If you say so - but given that you've already painted me as a stereotypical librul I wonder how you'll react when I subvert your expectations...

And how would you do that? You're not whom I expect to be rioting in the streets......

Wow, I'm having to deal with a very sloooooow connection today....

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Just a few months ago - people were decrying that Obama beat Hillary unfairly because he had a unfair racial advantage, and that Geraldine Ferraro was therefore perfectly correct in her assertion that race explained the majority of Obama's approval.

Now - if Obama loses, it must be due to race. Who honestly believes that...

Liberals, and liberal democrats will believe that as this article postulates. The article is very prophetic.

There will be anger, most likely manifesting itself into riots and property damage in the streets of most big cities where blacks reside.

As an aside-

One reason is the liberal elite's contempt for white Americans with less education -- even if they are Democrats.

There's that word associated with "librul" again...

If you say so - but given that you've already painted me as a stereotypical librul I wonder how you'll react when I subvert your expectations...

And how would you do that? You're not whom I expect to be rioting in the streets......

Wow, I'm having to deal with a very sloooooow connection today....

Rioting or no - I'm not likely to assign blame to racism if Obama loses.

Edited September 23, 2008 by Paul Daniels