Obligation

[TracyTN 237]

What are you on about?

[diadromous mermaid 36]

it is interesting to see that the OP is of the opinion that when a USC marries a foreigner that they are morally obligated to support someone who choses to leave their life. i would guess that the OP is a foreigner who has done or is looking to do the same. this opinion evidences a sense of entitlement that is the mark of an immature persona, avoidant of personal responsibility in the matter.

the OP places the burden for support on the USC, citing the interest of the USCIS, rather than citing the interest of the immigree. funny, in light of the fact that it is usually the immigree who is served (through a process of coercion - a nice word for extortion). this kind of disposition of responsibility is a commonly seen in diagnosis of borderline personality disorder.

this disorder is a psychiatric condition catalouged in the DSMIV as axis 1 (major mental illness), but was formerly catalouged as axis 2 (personality disorder). the DSMIV was written for americans who, being from an economically mature society, have a greater sense of personal responsibility than most immigrees from underdeveloped economies. cultural differences...

Really, justashooter? Remarkable insight you have, NOT!

[Mrs.J06 4]

it is interesting to see that the OP is of the opinion that when a USC marries a foreigner that they are morally obligated to support someone who choses to leave their life. i would guess that the OP is a foreigner who has done or is looking to do the same. this opinion evidences a sense of entitlement that is the mark of an immature persona, avoidant of personal responsibility in the matter.

the OP places the burden for support on the USC, citing the interest of the USCIS, rather than citing the interest of the immigree. funny, in light of the fact that it is usually the immigree who is served (through a process of coercion - a nice word for extortion). this kind of disposition of responsibility is a commonly seen in diagnosis of borderline personality disorder.

this disorder is a psychiatric condition catalouged in the DSMIV as axis 1 (major mental illness), but was formerly catalouged as axis 2 (personality disorder). the DSMIV was written for americans who, being from an economically mature society, have a greater sense of personal responsibility than most immigrees from underdeveloped economies. cultural differences...

Really, justashooter? Remarkable insight you have, NOT!

O.M.G. that was funny!

He/she really is.... just a shooter...

[morocco4ever 63]

it is interesting to see that the OP is of the opinion that when a USC marries a foreigner that they are morally obligated to support someone who choses to leave their life. i would guess that the OP is a foreigner who has done or is looking to do the same. this opinion evidences a sense of entitlement that is the mark of an immature persona, avoidant of personal responsibility in the matter.

the OP places the burden for support on the USC, citing the interest of the USCIS, rather than citing the interest of the immigree. funny, in light of the fact that it is usually the immigree who is served (through a process of coercion - a nice word for extortion). this kind of disposition of responsibility is a commonly seen in diagnosis of borderline personality disorder.

this disorder is a psychiatric condition catalouged in the DSMIV as axis 1 (major mental illness), but was formerly catalouged as axis 2 (personality disorder). the DSMIV was written for americans who, being from an economically mature society, have a greater sense of personal responsibility than most immigrees from underdeveloped economies. cultural differences...

Okey dokey sharpshooter.

[dillon 6]

It is not 10 years....it's 40 working quarters. Combine yours with theirs and it's really 5 years.

But, yes, I knew the seriousness of it when I signed it.

Well, that is true Jomo's girl, only if the couple remain married. If the alien and UC divorce before the SSA makes the determination that the 40 quarter has been satisfied, then the alien would not be afforded credit for an ex-spouse's work contribution.

How do you know if they were credited for the ex-spouse's work contribution?

[trinket 30]

Sorry, I don't want to hijack this thread but I just want to understand what my obligations are as an intending immigrant to make sure I can be free our joint-sponsor from his responsibilities asap.

I have always wanted to know what exactly are -- 40 working quarters.

I did google about it but didn't get any relevant answer. I understand it has something to do with individual's income, but how is it calculated?

How many thousand dollars or how many working hours does an individual has to put forth to earn their 1st working quarter? and thus calculating 40 working quarter.

[Caladan 19]

it is interesting to see that the OP is of the opinion that when a USC marries a foreigner that they are morally obligated to support someone who choses to leave their life. i would guess that the OP is a foreigner who has done or is looking to do the same. this opinion evidences a sense of entitlement that is the mark of an immature persona, avoidant of personal responsibility in the matter.

the OP places the burden for support on the USC, citing the interest of the USCIS, rather than citing the interest of the immigree. funny, in light of the fact that it is usually the immigree who is served (through a process of coercion - a nice word for extortion). this kind of disposition of responsibility is a commonly seen in diagnosis of borderline personality disorder.

this disorder is a psychiatric condition catalouged in the DSMIV as axis 1 (major mental illness), but was formerly catalouged as axis 2 (personality disorder). the DSMIV was written for americans who, being from an economically mature society, have a greater sense of personal responsibility than most immigrees from underdeveloped economies. cultural differences...

Really, justashooter? Remarkable insight you have, NOT!

I love google-trained psychologists.

Regardless, the I-864 is a contract between the sponsor and the American public: I am bringing over another person who only has a claim to be here because of our relationship, I will not let that person become an undue burden on the taxpayers. I think of it like a shifting of risk, too; one does not have to prove that much of a relationship to bring a spouse here (you don't have to prove true love, or fidelity, or that you're a compatible couple, or that you will survive long-term), so it helps ensure that the USC, at least, is serious enough about the relationship to pledge minimal financial support.

It's always a surprise to me that people are surprised by the requirements, after the fact.

[rebeccajo 14]

immigree?

[diadromous mermaid 36]

immigree?

Justashooter apparently knows DSMIV but not ASCII

I think he/she meant to write "immigré"...that's ALT+130 for the é, justashooter.

Back to the discussion....

Edited September 25, 2008 by diadromous mermaid

[diadromous mermaid 36]

Sorry, I don't want to hijack this thread but I just want to understand what my obligations are as an intending immigrant to make sure I can be free our joint-sponsor from his responsibilities asap.

I have always wanted to know what exactly are -- 40 working quarters.

I did google about it but didn't get any relevant answer. I understand it has something to do with individual's income, but how is it calculated?

How many thousand dollars or how many working hours does an individual has to put forth to earn their 1st working quarter? and thus calculating 40 working quarter.

A "quarter" is defined by by the Social Security Administration, in Title II of the Social Security Act as

(B.) QUALIFYING QUARTER DEFINED- For purposes this paragraph, the term `qualifying quarter' means a qualifying quarter of coverage under title II of the Social Security Act in which the sponsored alien--

(i) has earned at least the minimum necessary for the period to count as one of the 40 quarters required to qualify for social security retirement benefits; and

(ii) has not received any means-tested public benefit.

Simply put, it is considered a three-month consecutive period (there could only 4be 4 of such timer-period in one calendar year) in which the alien, or in the case of an alien who is married to a USC who also is working, the USC would have to earn a minimum threshhold in income, either as an employee or as a self-employed individual upon which social security tax deposits have been made. The exact amount of income at this time is $1050.00, the exact amount (as it increases from time to time relative to fluctuations in minimum wage, I think) is articulated in the Federal Register. There can only be 4 quarters accrued in one calendar year.

If an alien, or his or her USC spouse earns the prescribed minimum amount of income, and pays the requisite employment taxes on that income, each calendar quarter in a year, he or she could accrue credit for 1 quarter each of the 40 required to satisfy the I-864 requirement. So, if the alien remains married and both individuals work consistently, meeting the income requirement for each 3-month period and four times each year, then it is possible for an alien to satisfy the Affidavit of Support 40-quarter requirement in 5 years. Of course, as I said earlier, if a divorce occurs prior to SA making the determination that the obligation has been satisfied, then the alien would lose credit fr any quarters his USC spouse had contributed.

(A.) An alien lawfully admitted for permanent residence under the INA who has 40 qualifying quarters as determined under title II of the Social Security Act, including qualifying quarters of work not covered by Title II of the Social Security Act, based on the sum of: quarters the alien worked; quarters credited from the work of a parent of the alien before the alien became 18 (including quarters worked before the alien was born or adopted); and quarters credited from the work of a spouse of the alien during their marriage if they are still married or the spouse is deceased.

( 1 ) A spouse may not get credit for quarters of a spouse when the couple divorces prior to a determination of food stamp eligibility. However, if the State agency determines eligibility of an alien based on the quarters of coverage of the spouse, and then the couple divorces, the alien's eligibility continues until the next recertification. At that time, the State agency must determine the alien's eligibility without crediting the alien with the former spouse's quarters of coverage.

( 2 ) After December 31, 1996, a quarter in which the alien actually received any Federal means-tested public benefit, as defined by the agency providing the benefit, or actually received food stamps is not creditable toward the 40-quarter total. Likewise, a parent's or spouse's quarter is not creditable if the parent or spouse actually received any Federal means-tested public benefit or actually received food stamps in that quarter. The State agency must evaluate quarters of coverage and receipt of Federal means-tested public benefits on a calendar year basis. The State agency must first determine the number of quarters creditable in a calendar year, then identify those quarters in which the alien (or the parent(s) or spouse of the alien) received Federal means-tested public benefits and then remove those quarters from the number of quarters of coverage earned or credited to the alien in that calendar year. However, if the alien earns the 40th quarter of coverage prior to applying for food stamps or any other Federal means-tested public benefit in that same quarter, the State agency must allow that quarter toward the 40 qualifying quarters total.

from the Code of Federal Regulations, Title 7, Section 273.4 http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-....1.4&idno=7

As far as a sponsor's obligation is concerned, if an alien accesses federeal means-tested benefits before eligible, then the SSA, Titel II states various means that an agency can take to request reimbursement.

REIMBURSEMENT OF GOVERNMENT EXPENSES-

(1) REQUEST FOR REIMBURSEMENT-

(A.) REQUIREMENT- Upon notification that a sponsored alien has received any means-tested public benefit, the appropriate nongovernmental entity which provided such benefit or the appropriate entity of the Federal Government, a State, or any political subdivision of a State shall request reimbursement by the sponsor in an amount which is equal to the unreimbursed costs of such benefit.

(B.) REGULATIONS- The Attorney General, in consultation with the heads of other appropriate Federal agencies, shall prescribe such regulations as may be necessary to carry out subparagraph (A).

(2) ACTIONS TO COMPEL REIMBURSEMENT-

(A.) IN CASE OF NONRESPONSE- If within 45 days after a request for reimbursement under paragraph (1)(A), the appropriate entity has not received a response from the sponsor indicating a willingness to commence payment an action may be brought against the sponsor pursuant to the affidavit of support.

(B.) IN CASE OF FAILURE TO PAY- If the sponsor fails to abide by the repayment terms established by the appropriate entity, the entity may bring an action against the sponsor pursuant to the affidavit of support.

(C.) LIMITATION ON ACTIONS- No cause of action may be brought under this paragraph later than 10 years after the date on which the sponsored alien last received any means-tested public benefit to which the affidavit of support applies.

(3) USE OF COLLECTION AGENCIES- If the appropriate entity under paragraph (1)(A) requests reimbursement from the sponsor or brings an action against the sponsor pursuant to the affidavit of support, the appropriate entity may appoint or hire an individual or other person to act on behalf of such entity acting under the authority of law for purposes of collecting any amounts owed.

© REMEDIES- Remedies available to enforce an affidavit of support under this section include any or all of the remedies described in section 3201, 3203, 3204, or 3205 of title 28, United States Code, as well as an order for specific performance and payment of legal fees and other costs of collection, and include corresponding remedies available under State law. A Federal agency may seek to collect amounts owed under this section in accordance with the provisions of subchapter II of chapter 37 of title 31, United States Code.

[trinket 30]

Thanks a lot diadromous mermaid. It is much clear to me right now.

So in short, once I am in US and I start working, both me and husband have to earn at least $1050 every 3 months and then we can complete 40 quarters in 5 years.

Now, what if a couple or the immigrant alone earns more than $1050 every 3 months, can they complete the 40 quarters prior to 5 years or will government will still calculate only 4 quarters of $1050 per year?

[diadromous mermaid 36]

Thanks a lot diadromous mermaid. It is much clear to me right now.

So in short, once I am in US and I start working, both me and husband have to earn at least $1050 every 3 months and then we can complete 40 quarters in 5 years.

Now, what if a couple or the immigrant alone earns more than $1050 every 3 months, can they complete the 40 quarters prior to 5 years or will government will still calculate only 4 quarters of $1050 per year?

No, only 4 quarters per individual per year can be accrued. Therefore, to get on the fast track to satisfying the 40-quarter requirement, it would require that an alien remain married to a USC, both work and earn the $1050.00 per quarter four times per year for 5 successive years; pay the required soc sec taxes.

[redbarn 0]

No, only 4 quarters per individual per year can be accrued. Therefore, to get on the fast track to satisfying the 40-quarter requirement, it would require that an alien remain married to a USC, both work and earn the $1050.00 per quarter four times per year for 5 successive years; pay the required soc sec taxes.

-In the above quote are you referring to filing taxes or Social Security being taken out of a persons pay check?

-What happens if someone doesn't file their taxes. I did taxes for my ex husband last year (we were married then) but I can picture him not filing for himself this year.

-Must you be up to date on filing taxes to apply for means-tested benefits?

-Can he file the I-751 after April 15 without having filed his taxes?

[SterlingGirl 1]

If you consider the USCIS's point of view, the intent of the I-864 is to prevent the non-USC from becoming a burden on the government (unemployment, medicare, etc).

This is exactly right.

Therefore, this does not mean pay for their housing if they refuse to work, pay for their housing if they can afford a cheaper place but prefer to keep some luxury condo - hell, if the person is fully able to work and have a job in the U.S., then I can't see where I'm obligated to pay anything at all if the relationship falls apart. If the government wants to come back on me because he finds himself on some kind of welfare or aid . . . okay. Fair enough, it's in the contract.

But, were my guy to suddenly walk away from the relationship, changed course from everything we built, and expect ME to foot the bill for his "new life" away from where he promised he wanted to be? Yeah, no. My obligation doesn't extend THAT far. Maybe it'd be different in my case because my hubby is English and there's not really much of a cultural barrier between himself and the employers in the U.S. But my options to him would be thus: if you want to saw off the plank you're standing on, then I'm afraid it's not going to be the end that's nailed to the ship. Either get a job and support yourself or I can pay for you to fly back home.

There's absolutely no reason for that not to happen if he has an EAD. Besides, there's really not much ANY single man could get as far as welfare in the U.S., so it may well be a moot point.

[pj1959us 0]

Maybe it'd be different in my case because my hubby is English and there's not really much of a cultural barrier between himself and the employers in the U.S.

Your bloke must not be living here yet. I was surprised after David moved here in 2004 just how much of a cultural barrier there was/is, with not only me but where he worked. Wait until he is asked for the 10,000,000,000th time if he's from Australia!!!!

Hell, I even thought David spoke English until I started living with him!

Good thread, DM, hope it might help some think a bit.

PJ