Political Threads

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

also, gotta add my humble opinion

another of my concerns is that while the dems are blaming the republicans for everything wrong in our country, they are lacking in the morals of our country... main ones commonly such as abortion, gay rights, drugs, adultery and many more raging... to the dems its all about their rights and money that they dont even bother to work hard for... while forgetting the morals of our country are going into the pits of hell and leading our country that very way... straight down... shame shame!

Well its fine to have *a* moral view certainly. What I would ask however is why someone else's morality should dictate to others how they should live their lives.

I can't say I'm threatened in any way by gay marriage, or if a woman can choose to have an abortion. Are you?

Politics always go hand in hand with either Power, Money or Religion ... the latter is what gay marriage and abortion dictate in politics

I not sure I see how those issues dictate religion.

[~PalmTreeGurl~ 154]

While we're bringing up abortion and gay rights...if you're talking about Pro Life issues, let's also lump Capital Punishment in there.

It rankles me to see people b!tch about abortion yet not bat an eye at capital punishment. Either you are pro life or you aren't. Don't tell me there's a difference because life is life. When you start saying one is more important than the other, then you are playing God. I do believe there's only one God in my religion who has the right to that judgment. If one believes in the New Testament then I don't know how one can justify this.

well that makes sense now? abortion in most cases simply bcz a woman doesnt want a baby, so she aborts it....

or a man that murdered someone deserves to live? I'll take the insult... call it what you want... but abortion is wrong... and yes I am for capital punishment in some cases...

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

also, gotta add my humble opinion

another of my concerns is that while the dems are blaming the republicans for everything wrong in our country, they are lacking in the morals of our country... main ones commonly such as abortion, gay rights, drugs, adultery and many more raging... to the dems its all about their rights and money that they dont even bother to work hard for... while forgetting the morals of our country are going into the pits of hell and leading our country that very way... straight down... shame shame!

Well its fine to have *a* moral view certainly. What I would ask however is why someone else's morality should dictate to others how they should live their lives.

I can't say I'm threatened in any way by gay marriage, or if a woman can choose to have an abortion. Are you?

There is no way to have a cohesive national identity without some objective morals. Not everything can be about what makes individuals feel good. A balance must be drawn and is drawn in many other societal norms. This is where the rights vs. responsibility debate draws lines between conservatives and liberals. Liberals emphasize rights, conservatives emphasize responsibility.

Having rights doesn't absolve people from responsibility for them, or indeed - behaving responsibly.

I don't see how having the right to have an abortion or marry a same sex partner encourages irresponsibility. You can't use legislation to ensure that people behave according to a fixed set of religious morals.

[jundp 191]

While we're bringing up abortion and gay rights...if you're talking about Pro Life issues, let's also lump Capital Punishment in there.

It rankles me to see people b!tch about abortion yet not bat an eye at capital punishment. Either you are pro life or you aren't. Don't tell me there's a difference because life is life. When you start saying one is more important than the other, then you are playing God. I do believe there's only one God in my religion who has the right to that judgment. If one believes in the New Testament then I don't know how one can justify this.

well that makes sense now? abortion in most cases simply bcz a woman doesnt want a baby, so she aborts it....

or a man that murdered someone deserves to live? I'll take the insult... call it what you want... but abortion is wrong... and yes I am for capital punishment in some cases...

I wasn't insulting anyone. My religion (and yes, I'm a Democrat, but I am also a Christian) tells me:

Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. (Matthew 5:38-40)

It shouldn't be capital punishment in some cases. There are too many cases where innocent men or women have been convicted and, shamefully, put to death. In a flawed system, death is the wrong price to pay. For one, if we're talking just legally here, there is no "justice." How can there be social justice if death is the price?

Death is death. Abortion is murder. Capital punishment is state supported murder. Euthanasia is murder (or suicide).

Edited September 22, 2008 by jundp

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Not that these things should be taken seriously - but the poll on capital punishment in the other section is quite alarming. There are people who suggested that the DP is worth keeping - even if innocent people are executed as a by-product.

[~PalmTreeGurl~ 154]

the verse in Matthew you quoted was right, but that is not dealing with someone who murdered someone not deserving death punishment. Its talking about turning the other cheek, doesnt that apply to you who are alive? if I am dead, how can I turn the other cheek to the one who killed me? It applies to things in life of us who are alive...

If someone murdered someone, on what grounds are they supposed to be allowed to live? Just to turn the other cheek? And if this country doesnt want to follow the Bible in the other aspects of life, why are you going to bring up Matthew talking about turning the other cheek...

[rocks 494]

If someone murdered someone, on what grounds are they supposed to be allowed to live?

everyone has the right to live, that is why murder is wrong.

[~PalmTreeGurl~ 154]

If someone murdered someone, on what grounds are they supposed to be allowed to live?

everyone has the right to live, that is why murder is wrong.

I certainly can appreciate that thought, but I dont see America choosing that option much, when you have more babies aborted each year then you have inmates being put to death for murder... something is wrong with that picture

[jundp 191]

the verse in Matthew you quoted was right, but that is not dealing with someone who murdered someone not deserving death punishment. Its talking about turning the other cheek, doesnt that apply to you who are alive? if I am dead, how can I turn the other cheek to the one who killed me? It applies to things in life of us who are alive...

If someone murdered someone, on what grounds are they supposed to be allowed to live? Just to turn the other cheek? And if this country doesnt want to follow the Bible in the other aspects of life, why are you going to bring up Matthew talking about turning the other cheek...

It also applies to those in life who are passing judgment and those who control the punishment. I know what the quote means and I know my Bible.

If someone murdered someone on what grounds are they supposed to be allowed to live? If you are bringing in abortion and gay rights as religious concepts, then I bring in capital punishment on the same grounds. My faith is very specific in that as human beings, it is not our place to take life...even if that means altering punishment for a murderer. The lines I quoted in Matthew are just a few, and I am sure that you know it is not just referring to "turning the other cheek." It is a rebuttal to the tenants of the Old Testament about retaliation and revenge. That would, it seems, include state mandated murder.

As well, I am not the one who said anything about not bringing religion into politics. I was merely stating that if one wants to claim abortion and gay rights as an issue on the grounds of it being immoral, then by golly, call a spade a spade. Death is death and murder is murder. And immoral. And having the state or government be the one to administer the death, doesn't make it any less murder.

In fact, there is currently circulating in my church a petition to vote against the Euthanasia initiative being introduced in my state. Religion does play a part in politics because people of faith vote and often people of faith turn to their church communities to discuss, in the context of their faith, the issues at hand to be voted on.

I imagine we'll have to agree to disagree as most people outside of my faith community anyway, don't agree with my views on capital punishment and abortion. In fact, most Christians I know, are anti-abortion and pro-capital punishment. Most Democrats I know are pro-choice and anti-death penalty.

It boggles my mind.

If someone murdered someone, on what grounds are they supposed to be allowed to live?

everyone has the right to live, that is why murder is wrong.

I certainly can appreciate that thought, but I dont see America choosing that option much, when you have more babies aborted each year then you have inmates being put to death for murder... something is wrong with that picture

I agree.

[Peikko 1,575]

Is BY still obsessed by not being able to utter the word '***'? What a dumb ####!

[IAMX 3,055]

the verse in Matthew you quoted was right, but that is not dealing with someone who murdered someone not deserving death punishment. Its talking about turning the other cheek, doesnt that apply to you who are alive? if I am dead, how can I turn the other cheek to the one who killed me? It applies to things in life of us who are alive...

If someone murdered someone, on what grounds are they supposed to be allowed to live? Just to turn the other cheek? And if this country doesnt want to follow the Bible in the other aspects of life, why are you going to bring up Matthew talking about turning the other cheek...

You're absolutely right. The Bible does tell people to kill other people. However, most of those are in the Old Testament. However, the New Testament even says the Old Testament is valid and must be followed. The problem is people cherrypick which parts of this Bible they want to follow. In which case, NO part of the Bible (I don't care how religious you are) should be dictating how the government is run.

Then there's that pesky separation of church and state thing..

Edited September 22, 2008 by SRVT

[~PalmTreeGurl~ 154]

I imagine we'll have to agree to disagree as most people outside of my faith community anyway, don't agree with my views on capital punishment and abortion. In fact, most Christians I know, are anti-abortion and pro-capital punishment. Most Democrats I know are pro-choice and anti-death penalty.It boggles my mind.

yes I noticed that too, most republicans and or christians are as you said, anti abortion and pro CP, and most democrats are pro choice, anti death penalty, and I alwys wondered why that was.... pretty interesting!

[Mags 112]

Play nicely, people. Difficult I know, what with this being kindergarten!

[~PalmTreeGurl~ 154]

oh some of us are being nice... we agreed to disagree and I definitely see what Jundp was saying about the anti one thing and pro another ... how interesting again Edited September 22, 2008 by TamaraLovesAdam

[PlatyPius 5]

If someone murdered someone, on what grounds are they supposed to be allowed to live?

everyone has the right to live, that is why murder is wrong.

I certainly can appreciate that thought, but I dont see America choosing that option much, when you have more babies aborted each year then you have inmates being put to death for murder... something is wrong with that picture

That's about the most ridiculous statement I've ever read.

Maybe there are fewer murderers?

Maybe Americans have decided to stop murdering murderers?

Maybe rape cases have increased?

Abortion is legal. Let's not forget that. People need to stop forcing their religion/beliefs on other people, and stop harassing those who are going through an emotionally difficult - but LEGAL - procedure.