Market Based Healthcare

[Heracles 417]

I would agree America does have one of the best health care systems in the world. Consequently, yes, not everyone can afford it.

There is no easy fix. People want cheap health care as well as universal health care. Like saying I want to buy a BMW at a Chevy price and I also want the BMW for everyone. Not going to happen..

people die because they can't afford healthcare. i've seen it happen, sadly. i'm not disputing that there aren't world class doctors there, but the fact that a lot of people can't afford it means that it cannot be the best healthcare system in the world. i totally agree that there is no easy fix.

I agree we need some sort of universal health care option but do not agree with bringing down a system that works, in order to provide free access to all. There are a range of options they can and need to explore and consider. Options that are tailored to the United States.

First of all I do not want to be paying one cent for an illegal immigrants medical bill, unless it is a life threatening emergency. Second obstacle is that as long as lobbyists are allowed to operate freely and behind closed doors in America, nothing will change.

Right, people die here because they have no health insurance. Some people also get sub standard care in the UK because the particular NHS trust they belong to cannot afford to adequatly treat them; I've SEEN that happen too. If I had a dollar for every person that's said to me " I want free healthcare, like they have in England", I'd be rich....You pay for it one way or another.

I am interested to see how healthcare is hoing to be handled in the upcoming Prez debates.

yes people can't afford health insurance, and i think that is very sad how can anyone stand by and watch someone die? i am NOT promoting the NHS though. i am all too aware of its shortcomings.

There are probably pro and cons to both systems. UHC vs NHS that is.

Edited September 20, 2008 by Aficionado

[Dan J 277]

I would agree America does have one of the best health care systems in the world. Consequently, yes, not everyone can afford it.

There is no easy fix. People want cheap health care as well as universal health care. Like saying I want to buy a BMW at a Chevy price and I also want the BMW for everyone. Not going to happen..

people die because they can't afford healthcare. i've seen it happen, sadly. i'm not disputing that there aren't world class doctors there, but the fact that a lot of people can't afford it means that it cannot be the best healthcare system in the world. i totally agree that there is no easy fix.

Right, people die here because they have no health insurance. Some people also get sub standard care in the UK because the particular NHS trust they belong to cannot afford to adequatly treat them; I've SEEN that happen too. If I had a dollar for every person that's said to me " I want free healthcare, like they have in England", I'd be rich....You pay for it one way or another.

I am interested to see how healthcare is going to be handled in the upcoming Prez debates.

Universal health care is not free health care. Its just fairer than the system we have now. Which allows people to get care, but declare bankruptcy or get their bills forgiven. Putting the costs on those who can still afford it.

Free health care is a conservatives horror story to tell around a camp fire.

[rocks 494]

I agree we need some sort of universal health care option but do not agree with bringing down a system that works, in order to provide free access to all. There are a range of options they can and need to explore and consider. Options that are tailored to the United States.

First of all I do not want to be paying one cent for an illegal immigrants medical bill, unless it is a life threatening emergency. Second obstacle is that as long as lobbyists are allowed to operate freely and behind closed doors in America, nothing will change.

not everyone needs free healthcare. i don't think it should be available to those who can afford to pay their insurance bills (and this is where the problem will be, deciding who can and can't pay), but there needs to be something available to those who need help and cannot afford it themselves.

[rocks 494]

There are probably pro and cons to both systems. UHC vs NHS that is.

i totally agree, neither is perfect. i like the free contraception on the NHS not a fan of huge waiting lists though, which obviously happens because there isn't enough money to treat everyone who needs help.

[tmma 467]

Right, people die here because they have no health insurance. Some people also get sub standard care in the UK because the particular NHS trust they belong to cannot afford to adequatly treat them; I've SEEN that happen too. If I had a dollar for every person that's said to me " I want free healthcare, like they have in England", I'd be rich....You pay for it one way or another.

I am interested to see how healthcare is hoing to be handled in the upcoming Prez debates.

yes people can't afford health insurance, and i think that is very sad how can anyone stand by and watch someone die? i am NOT promoting the NHS though. i am all too aware of its shortcomings.

It is sad. It's all sad...I agree. I wasn't being argumentative with your POV at all.....Individuals cannot afford health insurance here and some trusts cannot afford the health costs there. Neither system is "the best".

The reason I brought up the NHS is that as soon as people hear my accent ( it's British) they immediatly start on the whole "free healthcare" thing...and to be honest that bugs the ####### out of me. I then spend ages explaining that it's NOT free there, that people DO pay into it from their paychecks and sometimes the ratio of money available v money income from that is NOT enough to treat the flow of patients.

I am lucky. I have health insurance, and I have been in the NHS system also. When I was an NHS patient the care I had was abysmal, yet when I was in the UK in hospital under my private insurance...well, you can figure out the rest.......

Boils down to healthcare costs money. Where should all that money come from? Should those that have and pay for insurance pay more to cover those that don't have insurance/chose not to buy it? Should privatly insured folks get better treatment (like I did in the UK) than those who are using NHS? Nasty facts, and it's NOT right but healthcare will never be fair because it's all about money..

[rocks 494]

It is sad. It's all sad...I agree. I wasn't being argumentative with your POV at all.....Individuals cannot afford health insurance here and some trusts cannot afford the health costs there. Neither system is "the best".

The reason I brought up the NHS is that as soon as people hear my accent ( it's British) they immediatly start on the whole "free healthcare" thing...and to be honest that bugs the ####### out of me. I then spend ages explaining that it's NOT free there, that people DO pay into it from their paychecks and sometimes the ratio of money available v money income from that is NOT enough to treat the flow of patients.

I am lucky. I have health insurance, and I have been in the NHS system also. When I was an NHS patient the care I had was abysmal, yet when I was in the UK in hospital under my private insurance...well, you can figure out the rest.......

Boils down to healthcare costs money. Where should all that money come from? Should those that have and pay for insurance pay more to cover those that don't have insurance/chose not to buy it? Should privatly insured folks get better treatment (like I did in the UK) than those who are using NHS? Nasty facts, and it's NOT right but healthcare will never be fair because it's all about money..

i didn't think you were being argumentative, i just wanted to point it out before i got called a socialist by someone, sorry if that didnt come across

are you dutch? sucks that people would think that you're british, what an insult! haha

your accent must be very good

america needs to ensure that it does not encounter the same problem the NHS has with the two tier standard of treatment. there is definitely no easy answer to any of those questions.

[tmma 467]

It is sad. It's all sad...I agree. I wasn't being argumentative with your POV at all.....Individuals cannot afford health insurance here and some trusts cannot afford the health costs there. Neither system is "the best".

The reason I brought up the NHS is that as soon as people hear my accent ( it's British) they immediatly start on the whole "free healthcare" thing...and to be honest that bugs the ####### out of me. I then spend ages explaining that it's NOT free there, that people DO pay into it from their paychecks and sometimes the ratio of money available v money income from that is NOT enough to treat the flow of patients.

I am lucky. I have health insurance, and I have been in the NHS system also. When I was an NHS patient the care I had was abysmal, yet when I was in the UK in hospital under my private insurance...well, you can figure out the rest.......

Boils down to healthcare costs money. Where should all that money come from? Should those that have and pay for insurance pay more to cover those that don't have insurance/chose not to buy it? Should privatly insured folks get better treatment (like I did in the UK) than those who are using NHS? Nasty facts, and it's NOT right but healthcare will never be fair because it's all about money..

i didn't think you were being argumentative, i just wanted to point it out before i got called a socialist by someone, sorry if that didnt come across

are you dutch? sucks that people would think that you're british, what an insult! haha

your accent must be very good

america needs to ensure that it does not encounter the same problem the NHS has with the two tier standard of treatment. there is definitely no easy answer to any of those questions.

I'm not Dutch...I am the USC, but I decided it would be cool to have a Brit accent ( kind of like Madonna) ....Seriously, though the reason I have a British accent ( and had the access to NHS there) is because I lived there from being 6 months old to being 22. Long story, but that's the gist....and I wasn't saying the whole Brit accent thing bugs the ####### out of me...LOL...I was meaning that the whole freeeeeeeeeeeeeeee thing and explaining it all bugs me....I am just getting that in before someone comes along with the whole " sooooooo being thought of as British is a bad thing...huh?huh?huh? "

I completely agree with you on the bolded-and you said it far better than me.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I would agree America does have one of the best health care systems in the world. Consequently, yes, not everyone can afford it.

There is no easy fix. People want cheap health care as well as universal health care. Like saying I want to buy a BMW at a Chevy price and I also want the BMW for everyone. Not going to happen..

people die because they can't afford healthcare. i've seen it happen, sadly. i'm not disputing that there aren't world class doctors there, but the fact that a lot of people can't afford it means that it cannot be the best healthcare system in the world. i totally agree that there is no easy fix.

Right, people die here because they have no health insurance. Some people also get sub standard care in the UK because the particular NHS trust they belong to cannot afford to adequatly treat them; I've SEEN that happen too. If I had a dollar for every person that's said to me " I want free healthcare, like they have in England", I'd be rich....You pay for it one way or another.

I am interested to see how healthcare is going to be handled in the upcoming Prez debates.

Universal health care is not free health care. Its just fairer than the system we have now. Which allows people to get care, but declare bankruptcy or get their bills forgiven. Putting the costs on those who can still afford it.

Free health care is a conservatives horror story to tell around a camp fire.

Well stated.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

McCain's plan doesn't do anything to address the core concerns of the current system - you'll still be pre-existing conditioned out of coverage, you'll still have certain conditions and treatments excluded from coverage which makes signing up to a plan a veritable minefield.

I should point out that my FIL makes a *lot* of money from his job. Why then is he having to take chances with his health in order to mitigate costs? If he isn't able to do it, that doesn't exactly make a good case for everyone else.

NHS healthcare isn't the best in the world by any means - but given that the US lags behind in certain key statistics (infant mortality, longevity), its not difficult to see why.

[rocks 494]

I'm not Dutch...I am the USC, but I decided it would be cool to have a Brit accent ( kind of like Madonna) ....Seriously, though the reason I have a British accent ( and had the access to NHS there) is because I lived there from being 6 months old to being 22. Long story, but that's the gist....and I wasn't saying the whole Brit accent thing bugs the ####### out of me...LOL...I was meaning that the whole freeeeeeeeeeeeeeee thing and explaining it all bugs me....I am just getting that in before someone comes along with the whole " sooooooo being thought of as British is a bad thing...huh?huh?huh? "

I completely agree with you on the bolded-and you said it far better than me.

ah ok, nice one on the accent lol! the accent thing is weird, mostly i find people can't understand me (i am pretty well spoken) let alone tell i am british

i can imagine being questioned about that all the time would be really annoying, it clearly isn't free.

[rebeccajo 14]

Rather than a company deciding who we use, we should be able to use that money to pick our own provider. This does not provide universal health care but at least gives people more choices and allows them to pick a deal that suits their circumstances.

Jaysus.

That's how it USED to be. Back in the stone age. Before HMO's, PPO's and other 'innovative products' designed by the insurance companies to make sure we'd all half bleed to death before they paid a claim.

I can't get over how you have all these opinions about things American, but you actually don't have a very good footing for your opinions.

Edited September 20, 2008 by rebeccajo

[kaydee457 13]

McCain's plan doesn't do anything to address the core concerns of the current system - you'll still be pre-existing conditioned out of coverage, you'll still have certain conditions and treatments excluded from coverage which makes signing up to a plan a veritable minefield.

I should point out that my FIL makes a *lot* of money from his job. Why then is he having to take chances with his health in order to mitigate costs? If he isn't able to do it, that doesn't exactly make a good case for everyone else.

NHS healthcare isn't the best in the world by any means - but given that the US lags behind in certain key statistics (infant mortality, longevity), its not difficult to see why.

Well, finally we may be close to agreement on at least one issue. The McCain proposal was a "deal breaker" for me early on in the primaries.

It's now a matter of the lesser of the two evils for me: McCain would like to raise my taxable income by making my employer HI ordinary income less 5k....

Well, my copay is around 5k, and the actual cost for my plan for the wife and I is around 18k/year......McCains plan would give the green light to many employers to simply drop their HC for employees. I worked for many years to earn employer HC in retirement and don't appreciate the idea of having to share my benefit with those that have none.

With Obama's plan.....Who knows the cost? He's cloaking his intention to provide for illegals.

I simply hope that they both of them are hog tied due to the cost of the current mess, or particularly if McCain is elected then hope that his plan dies the quick death it deserves........

Edited September 20, 2008 by kaydee457

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I tend to think that neither of the candidates will be able to make much headway on healthcare, given the other economic priorities at the moment.

BTW - have you seen what the AMA are proposing? Within the bounds of the current system.

[IAMX 3,055]

####### is he talking about? Competition? That's part of what's wrong with our healthcare system now - for-profit institutions 'competing' with each other for what should NOT be considered a commodity.

Competition in who can promise the most with giving the least. The health insurance industry is as much about as much about promoting good health as McHeartAttacks is. No sense in giving power to people who have no vested interest in keeping the public healthy.

[rocks 494]

I tend to think that neither of the candidates will be able to make much headway on healthcare, given the other economic priorities at the moment.

BTW - have you seen what the AMA are proposing? Within the bounds of the current system.

"The AMA proposal would expand health insurance coverage and improve fairness by shifting government spending toward those most likely to be uninsured: people with lower incomes"

very interesting, sounds like a good idea. giving full control of health care to the government would be a mistake, the site says they would work with private companies so there is still a choice but available there isn't space for the two-tier standard system the NHS has.