Motivations for citizenship.

[NickD 203]

  Turboguy said:

  mattr said:

For me it's voting (and i'm so pissed off I won't be able to vote in November and making sure I won't be subjected to some crazy policy that would get me removed from the US of A. I've been living here for 10 years and love it, I feel i'm part of this country and I want to contribute more than just paying taxes, I don't want some jerk to decide that i'm not worth it or that i'm not up to his or her standards.

Mattr.

Sorry you are going to have to miss this election. I am sure a lot of people think the right to vote is important. It is a shame that so many who can vote don't. I think people often feel there are so many who vote that thier vote won't matter and I think history has shown that sometimes a few votes do make a difference.

Thanks Mattr, Richie and to all those who have participated so far. I hope more can take the time. You are a great group of people and my wife apprecites the help very much.

You would think as far as living together and sharing finances, both copies of the state and federal IRS labels would be enough on your tax returns and the USCIS if they could share the IRS database, would be assured these weren't forgeries. But had to go deeper than that with original W2's and 1099's and see exactly how much taxes you paid for at least the last three years at my wife's recent interview. So if you are paying steep taxes as a LPR, shouldn't that give you the right to vote?

Another difficulty is trying to maintain a valid foreign passport as a LPR, why should we give you a passport when you are not even living in our country? You know, they make a very good point with that question, why should they? To complicate matters, the I-751 treats kids as tag-a-longs, except for that I-751 stamp, getting a passport for the parent is not enough, also want that for the kids as well, then suddenly they are treated like individuals and must have their own proof of being a LPR, where you would think their parents valid stamped passport should be enough.

Yet another motivation for USC, is that I-864 contract we had to sign, haven't read that for quite some time, but believe that contract with the US government is voided after USC. With the way our jobs are being exported overseas, one never knows if he/she will have a job the next day and may need a couple of bucks for food stamps or heating assistance. And that is about it, a couple of bucks. But you wouldn't need that money if a family could income average, but the way it works, can find that at the 1st of the year, you no longer have a job due to corporation cutbacks, then come April 15th, broke, have a huge tax burden to pay for the previous year. But the IRS is from year to year, so you still have to pay.

That home you worked so hard for to build and payoff is only yours to keep on your ability to pay the property taxes on it, wife and I are paying taxes on three properties that far out value our home here, but only a couple of hundred per year. We have a city, state, and federal government that is spending money on God knows what like their is no tomorrow and they set the rates. Also have full control of our tariffs and what countries we can do business with with an EPA that would rather export jobs than cure the problems with emissions here. So which ever way you turn, your hands are tied. Beginning to wonder why we are even staying here, this was a great country not too many years ago, but seems we have crooks running this country now.

99% of our energy to heat and electrify our homes comes from the good old USA, so why are these rates going up with imported foreign oil? Somebody here is making money hand over foot with no regulation on these crooks, but I guess my fellow Americans are too stupid to question this.

[akdiver 3]

Nick:

Those are some quality rants. Kudos to you (:

I have to disagree about the value of being able to vote though. Given the candidates that you have to choose from, being able to vote amounts to a vote between chopping off your left foot or your right foot. It's nice to get to choose, but either way, you're going to be missing a foot when it's all over and done with.

Aside from that, let's face it, most people are uneducated, uninformed morons. Most people will vote for:

- whomever makes the biggest promises to give them stuff

- whomever they like the most in terms of looks and/or personality

- whomever agrees with them on 1 to 3 hot button issues

- whomever they think can actually win - because no one wants to pick a loser

What is generally missing is the concept of, "who is actually the most well-rounded, capable and suitable person for leading the country". Whomever that person is will NEVER be elected, even if they are foolish enough to run for president.

Aside from all of that, the system is constructed such that, for the most part, it really doesn't matter who the president is. Half of congress will fight that person at every turn, simply because they're from a different party, and they don't want to give that party credit for doing anything useful - so that they can get their candidates elected. The system is large enough and federal enough that it's really just a big machine and even the president can't do the things that need to be done to get it under to control. It's just gotten out of hand.

I've voted in every election I could since turning 18. I will probably continue to do so. But I'm under no illusion that my vote will ever matter - nor could it matter. The whole concept of "our government represents our people" is just a big fraud. At this point, my main goal in going to the polls is to vote against any and all bond issues that may be on the ballot. Unfortunately, they always seem to pass anyway.

Edited September 22, 2008 by akdiver

[NickD 203]

  akdiver said:

Nick:

Those are some quality rants. Kudos to you (:

I have to disagree about the value of being able to vote though. Given the candidates that you have to choose from, being able to vote amounts to a vote between chopping off your left foot or your right foot. It's nice to get to choose, but either way, you're going to be missing a foot when it's all over and done with.

Aside from that, let's face it, most people are uneducated, uninformed morons. Most people will vote for:

- whomever makes the biggest promises to give them stuff

- whomever they like the most in terms of looks and/or personality

- whomever agrees with them on 1 to 3 hot button issues

- whomever they think can actually win - because no one wants to pick a loser

What is generally missing is the concept of, "who is actually the most well-rounded, capable and suitable person for leading the country". Whomever that person is will NEVER be elected, even if they are foolish enough to run for president.

Aside from all of that, the system is constructed such that, for the most part, it really doesn't matter who the president is. Half of congress will fight that person at every turn, simply because they're from a different party, and they don't want to give that party credit for doing anything useful - so that they can get their candidates elected. The system is large enough and federal enough that it's really just a big machine and even the president can't do the things that need to be done to get it under to control. It's just gotten out of hand.

I've voted in every election I could since turning 18. I will probably continue to do so. But I'm under no illusion that my vote will ever matter - nor could it matter. The whole concept of "our government represents our people" is just a big fraud. At this point, my main goal in going to the polls is to vote against any and all bond issues that may be on the ballot. Unfortunately, they always seem to pass anyway.

Ha, are you trying to outdo me in a rant contest? You see, I was helping my wife study for the civics test and the single most important part of becoming a US citizen is being able to vote.

With national elections doesn't make a bit of sense with over 300 million people in this country, only a small handful run for the chief of the arm services position. By a handful, like 6 to 12 people, and that is very small handful. And you cannot cross volt, if one guy you may like for president picks a guy you do not like, have no choice but to also vote for the guy you don't like. We also have no choice in voting for the speaker of the house that is 3rd in that position to take over the country.

President also appoints the supreme court justices, and can veto bills of congress if they don't go along with his choice. So exactly where is this balance of power in the civics test? Primaries are based on the person you would most likely would like to share a beer with, or in other words, the best BSer in the crowd, er, make that a very small crowd. Even though the majority of Americans may vote for the other guy, the party best at playing the elector college system will win. Course with winner take all states, that is dependent on which party is in charge of the legislation in that state, so it can go either way. No set rules for determining how the electoral votes will be counted in all 50 states.

States were a compromise in the founding of this country, each were used to setting up their own laws, George Washington couldn't even change that and if he needed funds to defeat the British, had to do side favors for certain states, that hasn't changed over the last 230 years. Only control the federal government has over states is to cut the funds they should get back anyway as our tax system is set up that way. The most powerful senator always seems to get more than his share for his state.

A new representative is certainly not equal, all he/she can do their first term is to get coffee for those that have been there the longest, may have to do some unmentionable things as well. Also a lot of blackmailing goes back and forth in congress, so the best blackmailer gets his/her will.

Election reform is brought up briefly for each national election, but that subject has been dropped for this election, such as where they get their campaign funds, and the big one, term limits.

Just a small powerful group of people have learned how to manipulate the system, I normally vote for a 3rd party candidate, least they are out of the mainstream, but it is a wasted vote.

When it takes more than 300 million bucks to get a guy in office for a 150,000 buck a year job, something is fishy. Can go on, but better quit now.

Yeah, everyone in town wants a new statue or some other dust collector that is never used that raises taxes. When I go to our school's website, it's the best school in the nation, even though the nation never even heard of our town. And in the city's website, our town is one of the top eight in the nation. But they don't explain why our population is declining each year.

[akdiver 3]

  NickD said:

Ha, are you trying to outdo me in a rant contest?

No - just keeping your company (:

  Quote

You see, I was helping my wife study for the civics test and the single most important part of becoming a US citizen is being able to vote.

Like most everything else the government says - that's a lie.

  Quote

With national elections doesn't make a bit of sense with over 300 million people in this country, only a small handful run for the chief of the arm services position.

The smart ones avoid politics entirely and control the nation from behind the scenes. Sir, I introduce you to "the power elite".

  Quote

And you cannot cross volt, if one guy you may like for president picks a guy you do not like, have no choice but to also vote for the guy you don't like. We also have no choice in voting for the speaker of the house that is 3rd in that position to take over the country.

Speaker has not become president due to vacancies in 200+ years. I don't see this as an important issue. It is lame if you can't split the ticket though.

  Quote

President also appoints the supreme court justices, and can veto bills of congress if they don't go along with his choice. So exactly where is this balance of power in the civics test?

President can't appoint unless senate gives approval, and Congress can override any veto if it has the will - so there is plenty of balance in this respect.

Primaries are a waste of time for people like me. I don't believe in political parties and I'm not a member of a political party. Given that the purposes of primaries is for a party to pick its candidate, and I'm not a member of the party, I don't feel like I have any business voting in a primary - so I don't. I do go to the poll and vote against the bonds and to vote on initiatives though.

Electoral college is important. It's the only thing that keeps the people in the 10 biggest states from screwing people in the other 40 entirely. It gets a bad rep, but it does need to stay. The founding fathers were smart on this one. Think of it as the states getting to vote, rather than the people - because that's what it is and what it amounts to. If you look at the original concept of federalism and a REPUBLIC vs the concept of a DEMOCRACY (which is just mob rule with voting), you can see how it needs to be this way. It gives small states a voice that they would otherwise just not have.

I agree winner take all is lame. Splitting state electors based on the actual votes makes a lot more sense to me - and I think it would also make the electoral college somewhat more palatable to those who do not understand why it is needed.

  Quote

States were a compromise in the founding of this country, each were used to setting up their own laws, George Washington couldn't even change that

I think you're a little lost on the concept here. States were not a compromise. The states, as sovereign entities existed BEFORE the nation did. They voluntarily came together to from a nation of equal and sovereign independent states so they could better defend themselves against others. The concept of a state is anything BUT a compromise. Unfortunately, this concept of a republic seems to have been lost - which is a damned shame because it has, as the founding fathers knew that it would, resulted in a tyrannical federal government and the all-but-complete loss of state's rights.

  Quote

if he needed funds to defeat the British, had to do side favors for certain states, that hasn't changed over the last 230 years.

This is how it should be. Again - it's the only thing to keep some states from being screwed by others.

  Quote

Only control the federal government has over states is to cut the funds they should get back anyway as our tax system is set up that way.

Wow. The federal govt is SO much more powerful than that. I dunno what to say. You need to rethink this one (:

I agree - the committee and seniority structure of Congress does wonders to complete #### up its ability to serve the country properly.

Abolishing the 16th and 17th amendments would go a long way toward fixing problems with how elections work.

I vote 3rd party too - and it is not a wasted vote. It is no more a "wasted" vote than the vote for the Democrat or Republican that also did not win.

It's is just bizarre how much money is spent on elections, I agree. This is one reason why, and I hate to say this, parlimentary systems have it right. The president should not be elected - he or she should be appointed by the governors of the states and SCOTUS.

  Quote

Yeah, everyone in town wants a new statue or some other dust collector that is never used that raises taxes. When I go to our school's website, it's the best school in the nation, even though the nation never even heard of our town. And in the city's website, our town is one of the top eight in the nation. But they don't explain why our population is declining each year.

The schools man..they are a ###### money pit. They always want more, more more, regardless of how poorly they perform and the fact that they leave their capital facilities unused for about a quarter of the year, while at the same time claiming they are overcrowded and need to build new ones. It makes no sense at all. Edited September 23, 2008 by akdiver

[NickD 203]

Heard all the same old arguments before where a republic protects the minority and individual rights and consider calling a democracy a mob rule to be an insult to the American people.

Exactly who is this minority that is being protected, in practice and exemplified by the current administration, we can see a perfect example of instead of the majority controlling the minority, we have a very small minority controlling the majority. Is that working good for you? It sure isn't work good for me. If the majority of Americans vote against individual rights, each of that majority would have to give up their individual rights that isn't about to happen. With our given system, I feel these many agencies and most recently the USCIS has infringed severely on my individual rights going against the US Constitution that is suppose to protect me, and you as well.

Only congress can declare war? When was the last time that happened in this country? To be precise, 67 years ago, Reagan comes out strong against communism to a country that doesn't even have communism, it's a dictatorship ran country, much as this one is. Our entire corporate system is a dictatorship with way overpaid dictators at that, they tell you where to go, when to be there, when you can use the restroom, how to dress, how to behave. Sure you have the freedom to leave, but only to work for another corporation exactly like the one you left. And your right to shelter is limited by your ability to pay property taxes, this is freedom? And the IRS is all powerful. With only congress declaring war, why wasn't that war declared that took away six years of my life? And if I didn't obey 100% would have been executed or spent the rest of my life in the brig, where was my freedom to choose there. And congress never declared that war? In the meantime, the likes of Ross Perot was making millions and George and Bill were having drinking parties at Harvard. Kind of ridiculous running a Skull brother, that Kerry guy against George since they already took that vow to protect each other, and Kerry should did that by falling apart at the end.

One thing about a republic, a whole hell of a lot easier to corrupt than a democracy.

So how does the electoral system grant equality when the larger states have a lot more electoral votes? Think you are confusing where our constitution lets all states have two senators. One real simple solution to this problem is to only have one state, but think of all the governmental officials that would be put out of work.

We aren't much different than the old Soviet Union or Nazi Germany where 10% or less of the population is controlling more than 90% of the rest of the population, that small group has the military and police under there control, controlling over 90% of the money, making the laws, and living on the high end where the rest of us have to work our cans off to make ends meet. I am for a true democracy for those very reasons. Did Jesus Christ really say, slaves obey your masters? Do not think so, the Romans put that in, and George and Jeff needed their slaves as well so conveniently left that out of the constitution.

So are we really free men or slaves? Why can't we deduct our transportation cost from our gross income is one small example, that is very much part of earning a living, and they also control what we can and cannot drive and how much we will pay for fuel. That small group has complete control over our every move, I don't like it.

Constitution may look good on paper, but certainly has been manipulated by those seeking massive power.

[akdiver 3]

Well, I will certainly agree that the constitution stopped being applied as our fundamental law a long time ago (1861 or earlier). However, any government can ignore any law - it doesn't mean the fault is with the law. If you have a corrupt government, it doesn't matter much what system of government is involved.

  Quote

Exactly who is this minority that is being protected, in practice and exemplified by the current administration, we can see a perfect example of instead of the majority controlling the minority, we have a very small minority controlling the majority. Is that working good for you? It sure isn't work good for me. If the majority of Americans vote against individual rights, each of that majority would have to give up their individual rights that isn't about to happen.

For example - the classic example is the rights of blacks. Suppose all the white people said, "black people are slaves and they will always be our slaves, that is the law." So, now the majority is oppressing the minority, without expressing giving up their own rights.

  Quote

Only congress can declare war?

Congress can de-fund the military at any time. Its failure to do so just means that it is as corrupt as the president.

  Quote

So are we really free men or slaves?

Oh, I definitely think we are slaves. Slaves to the tyrannical federal government that has grown beyond its constitutional mandate.

  Quote

Constitution may look good on paper, but certainly has been manipulated by those seeking massive power

I agree. I think it needs to be re-written to reflext everything we have learned in the last 200+ years. A new document would be similar - but make some corrections to prevent a bunch of the ####### that goes on now.

[NickD 203]

  Quote

For example - the classic example is the rights of blacks. Suppose all the white people said, "black people are slaves and they will always be our slaves, that is the law." So, now the majority is oppressing the minority, without expressing giving up their own rights.

With a republic for over 221 years, Blacks are still being oppressed, so the republic is not the answer either. With our immigration laws, the Irish, Italians, and the Chinese for years were able to enter this country, especially the Chinese until 1946 when 105 Chinese were finally permitted to immigrate into this per year. That was certainly generous. Our current president certainly does not like the Blacks, that biased southern hick, as governor, had a rather long list of Blacks on death roll and look at New Orleans, had hired guns called civilian security guards shoot them on the spot. Nancy is certainly his gal, won't even permit congress investigations of these allegations on the floor, this is vast misuse of power that I object to when you have essentially just two people controlling millions. So much for the republic.

Having the likes of Lee Atwater and Karl Rove certainly killed our system of government with a dumb American population to believe all these lies and hide behind fake Christian values to commit their crimes they will never be prosecuted for, well certainly not Lee, he is dead.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Atwater

This is why we are where we are today.

A cousin of my daughter-in-law was in college taking advantage of joining the National Guard, was pulled out, sent to Texas for seven weeks to MP school, given a gun and sent to Iraq, this same thing happened to two friends of my daughter recently out of high school. So we have three tiny little girls that can't even open a jar of pickles defending us. How low can our government stoop? Our own president and the one before him are both draft dodgers, but can certainly send our boys and girls into battle, that is really getting low.

[Gulskjegg 0]

To continue NickD's line of thought. I was going to trade school back in 1989. I took out some student loans and joined the Army Reserve for some extra educational benefits. The war came along in 1990 and off I went. Came back in 1991 pretty banged up. Couldnt work, thus couldnt go to school, and certainly couldnt pay back the student loans. They were $3000 back then, but are $15,000 now with interest and penalties.

So after I finished my NINE YEAR fight with the Department of Veterans Affairs, which fought 100 times harder then the Iraqi Republic Guard did in order to deny me my EARNED PENSION. I was designated "Totally and Permanently Disabled" by the VA in 2002. I found out shortly after that those that become T&P can have student loans forgiven.

So I filed the paperwork back in 2005. The Department of Education denied me for LACK OF EVIDENCE. The previously stated nine years of VA medical records, plus my grant of Social Security Disability Insurance. So thats two federal agencies that agree, whole heartedly, that I am a physical and psychological wreck. But all that apparently isnt good enough for the DoE.

I actually had a DoE Disability Determination Board phone bank drone BRAG that they routinely deny forgiveness to soldiers coming back from Iraq with missing limbs. I would like any future war crimes tribunal to drag these enablers of tyranny up for crimes against humanity. Openly putting cash before the welfare of wounded veterans whos lives are already in shambles.

The silver lining is, this years Education Bill includes a clause that essentially forces the DoE to recognize VA letters of Total and Permanent. I also dug up a DoE memo that discusses this very problem, but the consensus was to IGNORE the problem until DoE is forced, by law, to recognize VA or SSA decree. The clause comes into effect on July 1, 2010.

So is the crummy pension worth all the misery? Im not sure, because I was a fairly normal kid before with war with lots of friends and hobbies. I think Id rather have my health and sanity and let Uncle Sam keep the 30 peices of silver. Had I known back then that the gov't would stomp me over and over then kick me in the teeth every time I tried to get up I would have renounced my citizenship and headed for greener pastures long ago.

[Stef and Kel 0]

  Gulskjegg said:

To continue NickD's line of thought. I was going to trade school back in 1989. I took out some student loans and joined the Army Reserve for some extra educational benefits. The war came along in 1990 and off I went. Came back in 1991 pretty banged up. Couldnt work, thus couldnt go to school, and certainly couldnt pay back the student loans. They were $3000 back then, but are $15,000 now with interest and penalties.

So after I finished my NINE YEAR fight with the Department of Veterans Affairs, which fought 100 times harder then the Iraqi Republic Guard did in order to deny me my EARNED PENSION. I was designated "Totally and Permanently Disabled" by the VA in 2002. I found out shortly after that those that become T&P can have student loans forgiven.

So I filed the paperwork back in 2005. The Department of Education denied me for LACK OF EVIDENCE. The previously stated nine years of VA medical records, plus my grant of Social Security Disability Insurance. So thats two federal agencies that agree, whole heartedly, that I am a physical and psychological wreck. But all that apparently isnt good enough for the DoE.

I actually had a DoE Disability Determination Board phone bank drone BRAG that they routinely deny forgiveness to soldiers coming back from Iraq with missing limbs. I would like any future war crimes tribunal to drag these enablers of tyranny up for crimes against humanity. Openly putting cash before the welfare of wounded veterans whos lives are already in shambles.

The silver lining is, this years Education Bill includes a clause that essentially forces the DoE to recognize VA letters of Total and Permanent. I also dug up a DoE memo that discusses this very problem, but the consensus was to IGNORE the problem until DoE is forced, by law, to recognize VA or SSA decree. The clause comes into effect on July 1, 2010.

So is the crummy pension worth all the misery? Im not sure, because I was a fairly normal kid before with war with lots of friends and hobbies. I think Id rather have my health and sanity and let Uncle Sam keep the 30 peices of silver. Had I known back then that the gov't would stomp me over and over then kick me in the teeth every time I tried to get up I would have renounced my citizenship and headed for greener pastures long ago.

Well, have you thought about getting Ukraine citizenship? You could always move there with your wife.

I lived in Italy with my hubs for 16 years before I finally dragged him over here with one of our kids (the other two stayed in the Old Country). After this citizenship process is over, we will feel more secure here and will have the ability to move in between the two countries much more freely.

When you have choices you breathe easier.

K

[NickD 203]

  Gulskjegg said:

To continue NickD's line of thought. I was going to trade school back in 1989. I took out some student loans and joined the Army Reserve for some extra educational benefits. The war came along in 1990 and off I went. Came back in 1991 pretty banged up. Couldnt work, thus couldnt go to school, and certainly couldnt pay back the student loans. They were $3000 back then, but are $15,000 now with interest and penalties.

So after I finished my NINE YEAR fight with the Department of Veterans Affairs, which fought 100 times harder then the Iraqi Republic Guard did in order to deny me my EARNED PENSION. I was designated "Totally and Permanently Disabled" by the VA in 2002. I found out shortly after that those that become T&P can have student loans forgiven.

So I filed the paperwork back in 2005. The Department of Education denied me for LACK OF EVIDENCE. The previously stated nine years of VA medical records, plus my grant of Social Security Disability Insurance. So thats two federal agencies that agree, whole heartedly, that I am a physical and psychological wreck. But all that apparently isnt good enough for the DoE.

I actually had a DoE Disability Determination Board phone bank drone BRAG that they routinely deny forgiveness to soldiers coming back from Iraq with missing limbs. I would like any future war crimes tribunal to drag these enablers of tyranny up for crimes against humanity. Openly putting cash before the welfare of wounded veterans whos lives are already in shambles.

The silver lining is, this years Education Bill includes a clause that essentially forces the DoE to recognize VA letters of Total and Permanent. I also dug up a DoE memo that discusses this very problem, but the consensus was to IGNORE the problem until DoE is forced, by law, to recognize VA or SSA decree. The clause comes into effect on July 1, 2010.

So is the crummy pension worth all the misery? Im not sure, because I was a fairly normal kid before with war with lots of friends and hobbies. I think Id rather have my health and sanity and let Uncle Sam keep the 30 peices of silver. Had I known back then that the gov't would stomp me over and over then kick me in the teeth every time I tried to get up I would have renounced my citizenship and headed for greener pastures long ago.

We have two different kinds of people in this country, those that made a darn good living from a war, and those that had to make great sacrifices. Shame on you, Gulskjegg, for not getting killed, you would have saved the taxpayers a lot of money, much cheaper for them. Those that made more money than what they know what to do with ended up by buying defunct home mortgages, and we can see our government under the current leadership is right there to help these greedy non working, really kind of dumb people out.

As akdriver pointed out, we have minorities to protect, one is the super rich, sure after they lost that money, they can still afford their private jets, and then the GI or veteran. And what in the hell is/was our government trying to do. With Korea, many of our boys lost their life, how did that turn out? Along the shorts of Lake Michigan are deserted ship building yards, all that is in South Korea now, we are seeing many goods now imported from Viet Nam, exactly what is Kuwaiti doing for us? And why are we fighting for the freedom for the people of Iraq when they don't even want us there?

While I didn't get banged up, still got screwed by the VA, claimed all my records were lost in a St. Louis fire, and wouldn't even look at the complete file I saved of all the original records, so I can certainly share that feeling.

Stef amd Kel, what do you mean by, Well, have you thought about getting Ukraine citizenship? For those of us that have made a great sacrifice for our country, a question like this can be taken very offensively. But feel an explanation is in order before making assumptions.

[Stef and Kel 0]

  NickD said:

Stef amd Kel, what do you mean by, Well, have you thought about getting Ukraine citizenship? For those of us that have made a great sacrifice for our country, a question like this can be taken very offensively. But feel an explanation is in order before making assumptions.

Don't get offended NickD. I can tell you are very passionate about the issue and have a lot of meaningful things to contribute.

I do remember Guleskegg writing a few month's back about moving to Canada after his wife obtained citizenship in the US, so I was wondering if he ever considered taking citizenship in her home country and trying it out.

After 16 years in another country, I can only say that (1) I am very glad to be back in the US, with its warts and all, and (2), as I mentioned, having dual citizenship opens up a world of opportunity. Dual citizenship isn't only an option for our spouses, you know.

K

ps. about your VA benefits, good luck to you. I feel for you. The government is insidious in its recruitment of idealistic 18/19 year olds looking for opportunities in the military, only to send them home from Iraq in body bags, or worse.

[Turboguy 6]

There is an awful lot of good about this country but a lot of bad as well. I don't seem to have any dealings with the government that runs smooth and is handled by people who seem capable of doing their job. I would hate to have my life in their hands. Along the war injuries one relative who was a vet used the VA hospital for his medical care because it was free, by the time they were done with him they had him so messed up he ended up blowing his brains out. Sad.

[Gulskjegg 0]

I know NickD, I should gave dived on a grenade during the war. This way the gov't only expense would have been dropping me into a hole in the ground. Now I feel bad because I am cutting into ####### Cheney's 10 BILLION a month Halliburton profits.

Anyhow, I already have a 5 year Ukrainian visa and my wife got me a Ukrainian social security number and assigned me an address for legal permanent residency, for lack of a better word.

My concern is standard of living and ability to produce income. The USD dropped 5 freakin cents in a week and a half vs the Canadian Loonie. Regardless, we are sending off for my wifes US passport next week, then I will consider going for the Mexican M2 long-term residency visa or pushing northward into Canada.

If the US Border Patrol worked as hard to keep people away from our southern border as the Canadians work to keep Americans out of Canada, wed have no problems at all. Time will tell of course, but the citizenship issue is solved once and for all. We have freedom of movement...for now.

[NickD 203]

  Gulskjegg said:

I know NickD, I should gave dived on a grenade during the war. This way the gov't only expense would have been dropping me into a hole in the ground. Now I feel bad because I am cutting into ####### Cheney's 10 BILLION a month Halliburton profits.

Anyhow, I already have a 5 year Ukrainian visa and my wife got me a Ukrainian social security number and assigned me an address for legal permanent residency, for lack of a better word.

My concern is standard of living and ability to produce income. The USD dropped 5 freakin cents in a week and a half vs the Canadian Loonie. Regardless, we are sending off for my wifes US passport next week, then I will consider going for the Mexican M2 long-term residency visa or pushing northward into Canada.

If the US Border Patrol worked as hard to keep people away from our southern border as the Canadians work to keep Americans out of Canada, wed have no problems at all. Time will tell of course, but the citizenship issue is solved once and for all. We have freedom of movement...for now.

Not a very bright picture when Nancy feels investigating some odd 750 times this administration broke the US constitution that will do more damage to this country than letting it go. Congressman told me that, she has the power what and what not can get on the floor. Nor the trillions of dollars misplaced in Iraq, and we both know damn well the troops aren't getting that money. Now the bailout of the super rich guys on Wall Street that got greedy on buying defunct home mortgages trying to cream the public with higher interest rates. It's so obvious how this administration is screwing us with every turn, but everyone is helpless to do anything about it. And the lies!!

I paid for my own college, got much better rates from a local savings and loan place than a VA loan to buy my first home, and our local VA medical place is a very very bad joke. Their prescription drugs are extremely limited, and do not show the manufacturers name on the bottle, like to know who I can sue if those drugs kill me. One drug I checked into was on the verge of being banned by the FDA. A pretty said story.

I do not write letters to my local newspaper editor, one letter telling the truth and asking key questions led to a two year long IRS tax audit, was treated like pure ####, and had to pay a tax attorney over $5,000.00 only to find I paid an extra buck one year, and a buck short the next. They know how to make life very miserable if you start asking key questions to make the public think. We have crooks running this country, and that has got to stop.

[Turboguy 6]

  NickD said:

With a republic for over 221 years, Blacks are still being oppressed, so the republic is not the answer either. With our immigration laws, the Irish, Italians, and the Chinese for years were able to enter this country, especially the Chinese until 1946 when 105 Chinese were finally permitted to immigrate into this per year. That was certainly generous. Our current president certainly does not like the Blacks, that biased southern hick, as governor, had a rather long list of Blacks on death roll and look at New Orleans, had hired guns called civilian security guards shoot them on the spot. Nancy is certainly his gal, won't even permit congress investigations of these allegations on the floor, this is vast misuse of power that I object to when you have essentially just two people controlling millions. So much for the republic.

A cousin of my daughter-in-law was in college taking advantage of joining the National Guard, was pulled out, sent to Texas for seven weeks to MP school, given a gun and sent to Iraq, this same thing happened to two friends of my daughter recently out of high school. So we have three tiny little girls that can't even open a jar of pickles defending us. How low can our government stoop? Our own president and the one before him are both draft dodgers, but can certainly send our boys and girls into battle, that is really getting low.

There are some interesting points raised here. Hopefully your daughter in laws cousin will make it back from Iraq from Iraq ok. It is always a worry. My son has been there twice and it does make for some sleepless nights. Should young ladies be out there killing the enemy? The feminists fight for the right to be equal.

I agree blacks are opressed yet. Being older than many of you when I grew up blacks were a lot more oppressed than now. I still remember vacationing with my family in Virginia and being a bit shocked when we stopped somewhere and they had bathrooms for whites and bathrooms for blacks. Sammy Davis Jr had to enter the casinos by the back door and was not allowed out with the customers. All of the riding in the back of the bus things and school things were standard. It has changed a lot. Perhaps not as fast as it needs to and there is a long way to go, but it will get there someday.

As far as the things you say I am not informed enough to know if you are right or wrong. Were the numbers of blacks on death row in Texas because the then Governor hated blacks or because more blacks did things that got them to death row? Was it really that the juries or police hated blacks? I have a feeling that in most cases there were blacks on the juries and it only takes one to hang a jury but I don't know that for a fact. Perhaps the juries just really did look at the evidence and do thier best to convict someone they thought was a criminal and guilty? Personally I don't have enough facts but I don't think the Governor has that much to do with who ends up on death row.

It seems to me that to want blacks to be treated equally is a good thing so should not you want young women to be treated equally as well? I will add on disclaimer here. I am saying that but don't really like to see women in combat. That just goes to my old fashioned values and not believing men and women should be equal in all ways. It sort of comes from growing up in a time when men provided for and protected women coupled with a knowledge that the world is changing.