Our Fairy Tale is Over

[sasha414 0]

Something else people never take into account is the fact that it takes most immigrants (all immigrants I know personally for sure) a long, long time to "be themselves" again after moving into a different country.

This doesn't mean that they are unhappy or not willing or capable to adjust, they are mostly doing fine, have jobs, slowly make friends but still feel like they are different personalities from who they were in the countries they were born and lived in for so long.

I'm no exception, I like living here, I'm very happy with my husband, but I'm still "not me". On happy days this does not bother me. When times aren't so good it comes to the surface and I suffer from being different. Many people still treat me like "X from Germany". I think it will take many years for this to go away.

If the circumstances like the relationship, job situation or finances are not ideal this adds additional stress and can lead to frustrations. The immigrant blocks adjustment and withdraws, like it seems JenT's David did, and the USC gets frustrated and feels like the alien does not try hard enough.

I don't know where I read it (or how long ago either) but I recall learning that the average adjustment period for a person who has emigrated is seven years.

And I believe the adjustment difficulties for an english-first-language-speaker are often underestimated. Another Brit (not my husband) told me it's so utterly frustrating to not know how to do ANYTHING - not to know where to buy stamps or post a letter; not to know where to go for personal toiletries or everyday household goods; not to know how to get from Point A to Point B. Because the British accent is so charming to Americans, they are often treated like performing monkeys. My Irish husband gets comments DAILY in his job (he's on the phone all day) about his voice. It's nice to be noticed, but sometimes it annoys him.

After three years, I find Wes to still suffer at times from 'cultural hesitation'. There are still times I need to explain to him how something gets done in America; how something works; or where we need to go to get a task done. It's really quite amazing when I think about it. Those of us who have not moved to another country really have no appreciation for how MUCH an immigrant will face.

Heck, it took Wes a couple of months to realize he couldn't stuff an American toilet with toilet paper and expect it work - our toilets here are of the water-saving variety. Toilets in the UK have about a million pounds of water pressure behind them and could suck an unsuspecting American right down the hole.......

don't know where I read it (or how long ago either) but I recall learning that the average adjustment period for a person who has emigrated is seven years.

isnt that what they call the "7 year itch?"...i heard that before too, not only for immigrating spouses but also for newly wed couples in the same country

[rebeccajo 14]

isnt that what they call the "7 year itch?"...i heard that before too, not only for immigrating spouses but also for newly wed couples in the same country

I don't think the 'seven year itch' is hardly the same at all.

[JenT 0]

No, it's not the same: http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/seven-year-itch.html

Update:

So I'm feeding my four dogs tonight and the beagle gets green beans in his supper dish as a filler (he's a bit overweight). I put the beans in the wrong bowl and I start crying... and can't stop.

Little things are making me very emotional... like not being able to find my pie server. (My daughter found it and then gave me a hug....) I went to the doc today to have my migraine meds refilled and to get some sleeping pills... the otc stuff is too potent, even half of a dose. He also prescribed a low-dose anti-depressant to get me over the next couple of months. Never thought I'd need either one of these...

The movers are coming for his things tomorrow and it's likely that his departure date will be 10/25.

I was thinking about how I seemed to handle the emotions of my first divorce better than I am this time, and I thought about why that might be. Last time, I was the one who moved out, so I had a house to buy and arrange, and the kids' schedule to organize between the two houses, etc. This time, I'm just WAITING. Being busy with work, kids, and animals isn't enough of a distraction. And being in the same house is extremely difficult. We had a HUGE fight on Sunday night, some of which the kids overheard.... I am SO ready to get on with my life. But I'm still so sad that he won't be a part of it.

Every once and a while, I have a weak moment and am tempted to try to reconcile. But all I have to do is remember that it's not just me wanting this... he doesn't want to be here anymore and if I try to talk him into staying, all I'd really be doing is postponing the inevitable.

Jen

[rebeccajo 14]

Sometimes it's just hard to move on.

And sometimes there is a little niggly feeling you should listen too.

[carpe diem 2]

No, it's not the same: http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/seven-year-itch.html

Update:

So I'm feeding my four dogs tonight and the beagle gets green beans in his supper dish as a filler (he's a bit overweight). I put the beans in the wrong bowl and I start crying... and can't stop.

Little things are making me very emotional... like not being able to find my pie server. (My daughter found it and then gave me a hug....) I went to the doc today to have my migraine meds refilled and to get some sleeping pills... the otc stuff is too potent, even half of a dose. He also prescribed a low-dose anti-depressant to get me over the next couple of months. Never thought I'd need either one of these...

The movers are coming for his things tomorrow and it's likely that his departure date will be 10/25.

I was thinking about how I seemed to handle the emotions of my first divorce better than I am this time, and I thought about why that might be. Last time, I was the one who moved out, so I had a house to buy and arrange, and the kids' schedule to organize between the two houses, etc. This time, I'm just WAITING. Being busy with work, kids, and animals isn't enough of a distraction. And being in the same house is extremely difficult. We had a HUGE fight on Sunday night, some of which the kids overheard.... I am SO ready to get on with my life. But I'm still so sad that he won't be a part of it.

Every once and a while, I have a weak moment and am tempted to try to reconcile. But all I have to do is remember that it's not just me wanting this... he doesn't want to be here anymore and if I try to talk him into staying, all I'd really be doing is postponing the inevitable.

Jen

Jen, I don't know you but I do want to give you a virtual hug, and tell you I'm glad to hear your daughter gave you a real one.

This is going to be tough, there is no sugar-coating it. Eventually time will heal everything and joy will return in your life, but now you just need to get through the day. Someone in my immediate family recently had a serious relationship crisis after 11 years together that took her completely by surprise; they're trying to get back together but it's a slow process that seems to be almost entirely in the hands of her partner, who wanted to leave the relationship. It is so hard when one person really wants to fight for the relationship and the other doesn't-- you have to cope with the loss of one of the most important persons in your life, as well as disappointment that your partner apparently didn't value the relationship (or worse, you) enough to try harder, and the feeling that your intuition betrayed you because you had every expectation that this was going to work.

For now, just try to take good care of yourself. Force yourself to eat healthily, exercise, sleep (good that you temporarily got medication), and stay away from booze. Treat yourself regularly to something you really like-- nice chocolates, flowers, a good book, a great pair of jeans, a chick flick, a pumpkin spice latte, whatever lifts your spirits just a little bit. Get a haircut (seriously!), manicure, pedicure, or massage. Some other ideas: the fall weather is perfect for long walks, at least when it doesn't rain, and the fall colors and falling leaves will match your mood. Beautiful music can make you cry but sometimes that's a relief-- and to me it's always oddly comforting to know that I can still be moved by something beautiful. Also, please continue to do post here as often as you want to if it makes you feel better-- it seems that for you writing things down helps and this forum is the perfect place for that. Some people will get bored with you and not look at this thread anymore and you risk getting a hostile reaction or two, but it seems you have many friends here and there are others who don't know you but who can somehow relate. And talk to family members and friends, even if you say the same things over and over. Eventually they may tell you it's time to move on to the next stage but until that point is reached, don't worry about repeating yourself.

You will get through this, I know it, and I know you know it too. I'm wishing you the inner strength and warmth from others you'll need in the next few months.

[JenT 0]

Thanks CD... your post was very thoughtful and compassionate. Writing does help me sort things out and I tried that with David, as an alternate method of communication. I cried over one letter I wrote, and he knew it... yet when I gave it to him to read, I had to ask him whether he was going to turn off the tv or not... In our arguments, my writing has been thrown in my face as an example of how I can't communicate verbally.

I'm probably going to use this thread as a blog of sorts. I know some people will get bored and leave.... others might stay just out of curiousity... and others will genuinely support me. It's all fine. I know how these things go and this thread will probably ultimately die a slow death, just like my marriage.

The movers have just arrived and I've been crying all morning... I thought I'd be stronger, but not today. They're laughing and the dogs are going nuts.... one big party.

The other thing I was thinking, between last time and this one, is the fact that I initiated the divorce last time. I wanted it, he didn't it. But I allowed my heart to harden and I guess that's what helped me get through.

This time, it's he who wants it... I only did the filing because he never would have gotten off dead-center otherwise and we'd still be wallowing in misery.

Becc... I appreciate your giving a voice to that 'niggly feeling'. Trust me, that's the one I've been listening to all this time, which is why I have ALWAYS been the one to initiate reconciliation. However, nothing ever changed. The only change in his behavior was a little more self control over his physical outbursts since the time I had to call 911. I truly believe that he wasn't interested in changing because he saw no hope for the relationship and he just wanted to be back home. So he pushed the envelope as far as it would go and here we are.

The hardest thing to deal with is the fact that he doesn't think I'm worth it. Yet, I have saved text messages from the 'early' days that say how much he adores me and how he waited his whole life for me.... and now he's throwing it all away. That's just a little hard to accept.

As I said, I am mourning what could have been, not what was, which is silly... mourning a fantasy? I guess it just plain hurts when hopes and dreams disappear so quickly.

Jen

[*JG* 2]

Well, this is what I get for rarely going into the upper forums anymore. And especially my even more rare readings in this one.

Jen -

I am unbelievably devastated to read your news. I honestly never thought I'd see this. I had sensed an unidentifiable melancholy in some of our last PM's but I wasn't able to put my finger on it. I had simply put it down to a bad day; to the adjustments of a new marriage - who knows.

But I'm not surprised at all to see you post your news so frankly- it was always like you to post with honesty and clarity. Your writings now, I'm certain, are cathartic for you. A release. As they should be.

As both of use are 'old-timers' to this board we can both attest to the fact that it's unpopular on VJ to speak of anything being more horrible than the separation of an LDR and the wait for the visa. During our wait for Wes' greencard (17 months) I frequently tried to express to readers how debilitating THAT waiting was also. Frequently I think I failed to get the message across.

I've also occassionally commented that one of the things you read EACH DAY on VJ is a fallacy, although an innocent one. And it's something Wes and I said too. "If we can get through this long distance relationship, we can get through anything".

Nothing could be further from the truth.

I've always said that I have the utmost respect for those who give up all they know to move around the world in the name of love. It's a courageous leap of faith. We read tales here so often of USC's who feel they've been defrauded by the foreign spouse. How often is it also that we don't read of the USC with the unrealistic expectation that their SO will land on US soil and immediately acclimate?

Jen, you write about your feelings now with such clarity, such accuracy. You see others here telling you they've felt the same; wondered about the same things; struggled - some with success, some not. You wonder if you'd spent more time physically together if you would have known more about each other. You wonder if you had not rushed the visa and spent more time apart if you would have known more about each other. You even wonder if you had your 'eyes wide shut' to pitfalls.

So here's what I think, my friend. I think you loved him, and he loved you, and it would have mattered not if you had met and married right within the same town. You would have believed that the love would have overcome all. When we fall in love, that is what we do. We believe.

There are some differences in these relationships from the 'typical' vanilla relationship. There IS the risk of being overtly blind - I believe that someone who is so blinded in an international relationship would behave the same way in a domestic one. There's the risk to the alien who gives it all up, only to realize later the adjustments are too great. And of course there is international travel and phone calls at strange hours - the struggle to get the visa -

the stuff of romance. All those things that lead to eventually...........................

Normalcy. A man and a woman. Two people who won't always agree. Two people who won't always share the burden 50/50. Two people who will wake up somedays saying "OMG what have I done". Two people - two ordinary people with a wonderful story behind them, and thousands of normal tomorrows together. Two people who have to face all the adjustments of marriage (and they are many) along with cultural adjustments; financial adjustments; language barriers; religious differences.

Not a journey for the faint of heart. Not a journey to be taken lightly. Not a journey to be entered into because one is swept off their feet. Not a journey for everyone.

Jen - you took the journey. I hope we see you here often. I'm sure as time heals you, you'll have more to share. More that can help others see clearly.

You are one of my visajourney friends - one of my peers. I'm here for you now, just like I was then. Don't look back - just look forward.

Remember - you aren't faint of heart.

Good post RJ. I try and tell the reality of the situation, the adjustment period which lasts a long time, and actual day to day married life. It bugs me to no end when I hear someone say, he'll be here soon and everything will be okay. Reality checks are sometimes very hard to swallow.

I wanted to say things to Jen that just didn't come out sounding like I wanted them to sound. RJ spoke for me so eloquenty.

Thanks CD... your post was very thoughtful and compassionate. Writing does help me sort things out and I tried that with David, as an alternate method of communication. I cried over one letter I wrote, and he knew it... yet when I gave it to him to read, I had to ask him whether he was going to turn off the tv or not... In our arguments, my writing has been thrown in my face as an example of how I can't communicate verbally.

I'm probably going to use this thread as a blog of sorts. I know some people will get bored and leave.... others might stay just out of curiousity... and others will genuinely support me. It's all fine. I know how these things go and this thread will probably ultimately die a slow death, just like my marriage.

The movers have just arrived and I've been crying all morning... I thought I'd be stronger, but not today. They're laughing and the dogs are going nuts.... one big party.

The other thing I was thinking, between last time and this one, is the fact that I initiated the divorce last time. I wanted it, he didn't it. But I allowed my heart to harden and I guess that's what helped me get through.

This time, it's he who wants it... I only did the filing because he never would have gotten off dead-center otherwise and we'd still be wallowing in misery.

Becc... I appreciate your giving a voice to that 'niggly feeling'. Trust me, that's the one I've been listening to all this time, which is why I have ALWAYS been the one to initiate reconciliation. However, nothing ever changed. The only change in his behavior was a little more self control over his physical outbursts since the time I had to call 911. I truly believe that he wasn't interested in changing because he saw no hope for the relationship and he just wanted to be back home. So he pushed the envelope as far as it would go and here we are.

The hardest thing to deal with is the fact that he doesn't think I'm worth it. Yet, I have saved text messages from the 'early' days that say how much he adores me and how he waited his whole life for me.... and now he's throwing it all away. That's just a little hard to accept.

As I said, I am mourning what could have been, not what was, which is silly... mourning a fantasy? I guess it just plain hurts when hopes and dreams disappear so quickly.

Jen

Jen, girl.......I pray for you all the time. And, I send hugs whenever you may need one.

[JenT 0]

Jen, girl.......I pray for you all the time. And, I send hugs whenever you may need one.

"Thank you" hardly seems a sufficient way to express my gratitude.... I'm needing hugs this morning, which is why I'm here. I wish I could make it to the Chicago meet-up.... perhaps next time....

Jen

[tom&tata 2]

The hardest thing to deal with is the fact that he doesn't think I'm worth it. Yet, I have saved text messages from the 'early' days that say how much he adores me and how he waited his whole life for me.... and now he's throwing it all away. That's just a little hard to accept.

Jen

You know you are still worth it. It's him who got it all wrong. I am sorry you have to go through this. Hope things are getting better for you - a little at a time.

[rebeccajo 14]

Jen -

I don't want anything I say to sound like I believe you are making a mistake.

But I am going to make some observations and ask you to think about them.

Number One - If I didn't want a divorce, I wouldn't file for it.

Number Two - What might be 'dead center' to one person is not 'dead center' to another.

Number Three - Has he told you he doesn't think you are worth it?

[JenT 0]

A friend of mine phoned this morning to offer some moral support. He said that I should 'make peace' with David before he leaves. (Right now, we're barely speaking.) I'm conflicted about that. Part of me wants to stay angry and bitter (for now) and pledge to never speak to him again because it will be easier to watch the door close behind him if I do. I have really been a b!tch these last few weeks.

The other part of me wants to make peace and 'try to' part as friends. I'm just so hurt right now that the idea of being 'just friends' seems all the more painful.

I am 'friends' to some extent with the father of my kids. We don't exchange 'life news' but we are civil and can communicate well when it comes to the kids. When David leaves, I will really have no 'reason' to speak with him again.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

Jen

[tom&tata 2]

A friend of mine phoned this morning to offer some moral support. He said that I should 'make peace' with David before he leaves. (Right now, we're barely speaking.) I'm conflicted about that. Part of me wants to stay angry and bitter (for now) and pledge to never speak to him again because it will be easier to watch the door close behind him if I do. I have really been a b!tch these last few weeks.

The other part of me wants to make peace and 'try to' part as friends. I'm just so hurt right now that the idea of being 'just friends' seems all the more painful.

I am 'friends' to some extent with the father of my kids. We don't exchange 'life news' but we are civil and can communicate well when it comes to the kids. When David leaves, I will really have no 'reason' to speak with him again.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

Jen

Will it hurt you more if you try to extend peace to him & he refuses? Will it make it easier for you to let go if you do that?

[JenT 0]

Jen -

I don't want anything I say to sound like I believe you are making a mistake.

But I am going to make some observations and ask you to think about them.

Number One - If I didn't want a divorce, I wouldn't file for it.

Number Two - What might be 'dead center' to one person is not 'dead center' to another.

Number Three - Has he told you he doesn't think you are worth it?

Number One - I know. When the subject of divorce came up the last time, I told him that I wasn't going to file. If he wanted the divorce, he was going to have to file. But there are some basic aspects of his personality and our relationship that made me decide to file:

He never does anything that requires 'effort' if it doesn't please him... he'd have to research the process and make it happen. More importantly, he has NO (literally NO) money to pay for an attorney. And there's no way he'd file the paperwork himself. He has absolutely zero initiative, and that's honestly not an exaggeration. He would freely admit it. We'd be stuck in this misery forever and I can't put my kids through that. Nor do I deserve to be the recipient of any more verbal abuse. Plus, and this may sound bad, but the longer we're married, the more he'd be entitled to, financially. Since he has contributed ZERO to this marriage (emotionally and financially), I am unwilling to accept that he is entitled to anything, the law notwithstanding. Plus, him 'pushing' me to finally file gives him the ability to go home and tell everyone that it wasn't his fault, that I 'made him' leave.

Number 2 - True... everyone has a different tolerance level for what they will accept and what they won't. He'd say he was through but would never do anything about it. Last Sunday, I asked him for the final papers that he'd had in-hand for 4 days. His response was, "Are you sure YOU want to do this?" I resented the insinuation that it was all ME.... and if THAT was his attempt at breaking the ice and seeking to reconcile, it was pathetic. That was the one and only time he ever questioned anything about the separation/divorce.

Number 3 - Not in so many words. But he never disputed it when I mentioned it through tears....

[rebeccajo 14]

I'm sorry to say this, but IMO this is definately a bridge where there is too much water flowing underneath it too rapidly.

One of your daughters asked you why this (the divorce) had to happen again. Therefore I wonder if you are worrying excessively about 'putting them through' whatever it is that has been happening in your household. Which 'thing' is worse to put them through?

I went through a very verbally abusive and emotionally manipulative relationship for a very long time. So there ARE some things in your and David's relationship that concern me.

On the other hand, there are other things you write which make me wonder if your defenses aren't up unnecessarily too high. This happens sometimes to those of us who have been down a difficult road.

[JenT 0]

Will it hurt you more if you try to extend peace to him & he refuses? Will it make it easier for you to let go if you do that?

I doubt he would refuse... he has been trying to be reasonable and is just staying out of my way.