Our Fairy Tale is Over

[Caladan 19]

Beautiful thoughts, rebeccajo.

One thing I'd add is that even one can get to know one another over the Internet and phone, and with visits, is that it creates a very artificial context for the relationship, even if you are honest with each other, especially if there's a short courtship. Online one tends to focus on the person's absence, and what portrait of day-to-day life is presented is necessarily edited, even by the most honest person. And visits are usually (not always) vacations for one or both parties. It's easy to be in love when one is being showered with attention, going out to nice restaurants, and relaxing. In a relationship that developed in the same place, one would see the other person sometimes after work, or on weekends, in a normal context.

Moreover, I think we underestimate the stress of what is essentially forced unemployment for the immigrant, especially if the immigrant is used to being a breadwinner or independent. Many domestic marriages fail because of financial stress when someone loses a job; nearly every international marriage starts off with a ton of expenses, and one person not being able to work.

I'd like to talk a bit more about the communication of our long-distance relationships, and the bit Caladan talks about above where she speaks of an honest person.

I don't think any of us want to give the impression that there is no value to what a couple can learn about each other while separated (I've re-read my post above a couple of times and wondered if I gave that impression). Quite the contrary, between honest people the couple can learn quite a lot. Wes and I used to talk about every little thing - what we had eaten that day; the weather; what happened at work and with family. We talked about religion and politics and our different cultures. We talked about driving on opposite sides of the road... .

I hope what readers take away from this discussion is how all the magnification of distance and longing in an LDR does level out after the couple is reunited. I know Wes and I always said (as everyone here does) that we couldn't wait to be 'normal'. The key for us has been reminding ourselves now that - well - normal is boring. Normal has ups and downs and normal has mood swings. Normal is having a lot of money some days and being broke on others.

And normal is remembering how to communicate. Something we hopefully did very well while we were apart, and bringing those skills back to the table on days when you don't like each other very much.........

No, you didn't. And I do think honest communication happens; it's just in a different context, and maybe... edited for time is a good way to put it. There's a big difference between what one says on the phone, and what one would say in person, in my experience. C. still travels a lot with work so in some ways we still deal with distance. He calls every night and we discuss our days and mundane things like bills and plans and all of that. But if we were having these conversations face-to-face, they'd be different conversations, interspersed more with idle chatter, reading body language, occurring over several hours and periods of silence, sometimes saying nothing at all. There's a difference between C. saying 'Work was exhausting today; I am really tired' and me being able to read how tired he is from how he's sitting.

LDR communication is good, but good communication over the telephone or Internet doesn't necessarily translate into good communication in person.

[rebeccajo 14]

Something else people never take into account is the fact that it takes most immigrants (all immigrants I know personally for sure) a long, long time to "be themselves" again after moving into a different country.

This doesn't mean that they are unhappy or not willing or capable to adjust, they are mostly doing fine, have jobs, slowly make friends but still feel like they are different personalities from who they were in the countries they were born and lived in for so long.

I'm no exception, I like living here, I'm very happy with my husband, but I'm still "not me". On happy days this does not bother me. When times aren't so good it comes to the surface and I suffer from being different. Many people still treat me like "X from Germany". I think it will take many years for this to go away.

If the circumstances like the relationship, job situation or finances are not ideal this adds additional stress and can lead to frustrations. The immigrant blocks adjustment and withdraws, like it seems JenT's David did, and the USC gets frustrated and feels like the alien does not try hard enough.

I don't know where I read it (or how long ago either) but I recall learning that the average adjustment period for a person who has emigrated is seven years.

And I believe the adjustment difficulties for an english-first-language-speaker are often underestimated. Another Brit (not my husband) told me it's so utterly frustrating to not know how to do ANYTHING - not to know where to buy stamps or post a letter; not to know where to go for personal toiletries or everyday household goods; not to know how to get from Point A to Point B. Because the British accent is so charming to Americans, they are often treated like performing monkeys. My Irish husband gets comments DAILY in his job (he's on the phone all day) about his voice. It's nice to be noticed, but sometimes it annoys him.

After three years, I find Wes to still suffer at times from 'cultural hesitation'. There are still times I need to explain to him how something gets done in America; how something works; or where we need to go to get a task done. It's really quite amazing when I think about it. Those of us who have not moved to another country really have no appreciation for how MUCH an immigrant will face.

Heck, it took Wes a couple of months to realize he couldn't stuff an American toilet with toilet paper and expect it work - our toilets here are of the water-saving variety. Toilets in the UK have about a million pounds of water pressure behind them and could suck an unsuspecting American right down the hole.......

Edited September 25, 2008 by rebeccajo

[*JG* 2]

Something else people never take into account is the fact that it takes most immigrants (all immigrants I know personally for sure) a long, long time to "be themselves" again after moving into a different country.

This doesn't mean that they are unhappy or not willing or capable to adjust, they are mostly doing fine, have jobs, slowly make friends but still feel like they are different personalities from who they were in the countries they were born and lived in for so long.

I'm no exception, I like living here, I'm very happy with my husband, but I'm still "not me". On happy days this does not bother me. When times aren't so good it comes to the surface and I suffer from being different. Many people still treat me like "X from Germany". I think it will take many years for this to go away.

If the circumstances like the relationship, job situation or finances are not ideal this adds additional stress and can lead to frustrations. The immigrant blocks adjustment and withdraws, like it seems JenT's David did, and the USC gets frustrated and feels like the alien does not try hard enough.

I don't know where I read it (or how long ago either) but I recall learning that the average adjustment period for a person who has emigrated is seven years.

And I believe the adjustment difficulties for an english-first-language-speaker are often underestimated. Another Brit (not my husband) told me it's so utterly frustrating to not know how to do ANYTHING - not to know where to buy stamps or post a letter; not to know where to go for personal toiletries or everyday household goods; not to know how to get from Point A to Point B. Because the British accent is so charming to Americans, they are often treated like performing monkeys. My Irish husband gets comments DAILY in his job (he's on the phone all day) about his voice. It's nice to be noticed, but sometimes it annoys him.

After three years, I find Wes to still suffer at times from 'cultural hesitation'. There are still times I need to explain to him how something gets done in America; how something works; or where we need to go to get a task done. It's really quite amazing when I think about it. Those of us who have not moved to another country really have no appreciation for how MUCH an immigrant will face.

Heck, it took Wes a couple of months to realize he couldn't stuff an American toilet with toilet paper and expect it work - our toilets here are of the water-saving variety. Toilets in the UK have about a million pounds of water pressure behind them and could suck an unsuspecting American right down the hole.......

Thank you so much for saying this. I thought it was me.....that there was something wrong because after all this time, I am still having to explain stuff. 7 years......EGADS!!!!

[Mrs.J06 4]

I read about the seven years somewhere too, and I think that's probably realistic, but quite amazing, isn't it? That is a LONG time.

What Rebecca said about the Brit being frustrated about not knowing how anything works just reminded me about me trying to get prescription medicine for the first time in the US. It was so humiliating and frustrating that I left the store in tears. My husband had been waiting for me in the car and when I blurted out my frustrations to him he first giggled and then realized how hurt I was. He just had never anticipated little things like this could be so hard. He was very ashamed of reacting the way he did.

About being noticed - yes, most of the time it does not bother me and I answer questions without getting annoyed or anything, but sometimes I wonder when I will stop being "from Germany" and starting to be just myself again.

These experiences are something to smile about later, but when they happen, they hurt. And if people are not happy with their lifes anyway, this might well be the breaking point for some relationships. I'm sure the it takes a lot of patience for the USC to put up with suddenly having to explain everyday stuff for an extended period of time. It all boils down to wanting to make this work again.

[JenT 0]

I hadn't heard the 7-year adjustment period for non-USCs before, but I have heard of the 5-year adjustment for blending families... so those first 5 years can be a helluva challenge when kids are involved.

I admit to not being the most patient person alive. I'm very non-nonsense, to the point... and I admit that I had higher expectations for a 5-year-old male being more 'wordly' than I probably should have. Esp since he'd already been through one adjustment from England to Germany... and he lived in Germany for 17 years...

I did often think of what I would have felt like had the situation been reversed... somehow, that didn't really help.

It also didn't help when he got immediately defensive when I had to explain something more than once. He expected one impatient response to be the norm and he never gave me a chance after that. I attribute that to his experience with other women in his life, which I asked him to keep me separate from. Combine impatience with defensiveness and a temper, and you get unconstructive communication.

[JenT 0]

At one point, we were SO not communicating well, we decided to default to our non-native German. That helped at the time, but my vocab isn't strong enough to support a substantive conversation....

** edited for spelling, sigh

Edited September 25, 2008 by JenT

[Reba 2]

I'm reminded of a saying:

"To get something you never had, you have to do something you never did."

Seems to fit.

wow...that's brilliant, mind if I use that?

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{HUGS}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} to you Jen. And a quote of my own, from some book I read in high-school "once you hit rock bottom, there's no place to go but up"

[JenT 0]

I'm reminded of a saying:

"To get something you never had, you have to do something you never did."

Seems to fit.

wow...that's brilliant, mind if I use that?

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{HUGS}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} to you Jen. And a quote of my own, from some book I read in high-school "once you hit rock bottom, there's no place to go but up"

Go right ahead, Reba... thanks for the hugs. It all helps. I like your quote as well.... my problems are small, comparatively, and honestly, it would take a LOT more than this for me to hit rock bottom but I will be happy when I have some peace restored to my life.

Jen

[Cassie 8]

Something else people never take into account is the fact that it takes most immigrants (all immigrants I know personally for sure) a long, long time to "be themselves" again after moving into a different country.

This doesn't mean that they are unhappy or not willing or capable to adjust, they are mostly doing fine, have jobs, slowly make friends but still feel like they are different personalities from who they were in the countries they were born and lived in for so long.

I'm no exception, I like living here, I'm very happy with my husband, but I'm still "not me". On happy days this does not bother me. When times aren't so good it comes to the surface and I suffer from being different. Many people still treat me like "X from Germany". I think it will take many years for this to go away.

If the circumstances like the relationship, job situation or finances are not ideal this adds additional stress and can lead to frustrations. The immigrant blocks adjustment and withdraws, like it seems JenT's David did, and the USC gets frustrated and feels like the alien does not try hard enough.

I don't know where I read it (or how long ago either) but I recall learning that the average adjustment period for a person who has emigrated is seven years.

And I believe the adjustment difficulties for an english-first-language-speaker are often underestimated. Another Brit (not my husband) told me it's so utterly frustrating to not know how to do ANYTHING - not to know where to buy stamps or post a letter; not to know where to go for personal toiletries or everyday household goods; not to know how to get from Point A to Point B. Because the British accent is so charming to Americans, they are often treated like performing monkeys. My Irish husband gets comments DAILY in his job (he's on the phone all day) about his voice. It's nice to be noticed, but sometimes it annoys him.

After three years, I find Wes to still suffer at times from 'cultural hesitation'. There are still times I need to explain to him how something gets done in America; how something works; or where we need to go to get a task done. It's really quite amazing when I think about it. Those of us who have not moved to another country really have no appreciation for how MUCH an immigrant will face.

Heck, it took Wes a couple of months to realize he couldn't stuff an American toilet with toilet paper and expect it work - our toilets here are of the water-saving variety. Toilets in the UK have about a million pounds of water pressure behind them and could suck an unsuspecting American right down the hole.......

Thank you so much for saying this. I thought it was me.....that there was something wrong because after all this time, I am still having to explain stuff. 7 years......EGADS!!!!

Nah, it's not you. This past weekend, I dealt with some personal issues relating to 'settling in' -- I've been here almost 4 years and still dealing with it. I have finally let go of some things, and feel much better about things as a whole, but it still doesn't feel like home to me. My hubby is extremely supportive, which helps, but I can't but help to feel bad about it a bit. At least when we make the move to Canada, I will know exactly what he is feeling like!

JenT, I am truly sorry to hear what has happened to you. I wish you nothing but the best.

[chnst 6]

@Mrs.J06: all your statements are so true! Your are truly speaking from the bottom of my heart! It makes me appreciate my hubby so much for being so supportive and patient with me when I get homesick, overwhelmed with the american culture or just frustrated with adjusting.

@Jen: I am so sorry for what happened. You are a very strong and honest woman and a great mother. Keep your head up, I wish you all the best! Thank you for sharing your story.

[Ban Hammer 13,445]

sorry for the late post, i don't get over to this forum very much, i'm usually busy organizing (yeah ewok finally had to scrap the bottom of the barrel for organizers)

this thread completely surprised me. i don't know what to say.

[JenT 0]

sorry for the late post, i don't get over to this forum very much, i'm usually busy organizing (yeah ewok finally had to scrap the bottom of the barrel for organizers)

this thread completely surprised me. i don't know what to say.

Wow Charles.... you're NEVER speechless. And you're also NEVER at the bottom of the barrel

I never thought I'd be here...

The movers are coming for his things this week, Oct 2, and he is free to leave 'whenever'.... all of the paperwork has been signed and as soon as I get a court date (sometime after 11/9), it will be final. He doesn't need to be here for the court date and he is vague about when he wants his flight booked.... he says he can only think of one thing at a time, which at the moment is packing his stuff....

Jen

[Mrs.J06 4]

O.k., I'll probably get flamed for it but I have to say that I find JenT's story particularily heartbreaking because they were a "real" couple. By "real" in my own definition, I mean a couple that has put a lot of thought into a relationship, quite a bit of work, and they fought for it. Sadly, even such a marriage can fail.

It touches me deeply because they are not like so many here that seem to have met online, "known" each other for two months, met once in person and then filed, only to find out they were not compatible at all, or even take for a ride. I'm not trying to criticize those couples, to each their own, but if such a relationship fails I have a hard time to really feel deeply sorry for them.

I do for you, JenT, and also for David. May the future bring only happier times for you both.

[Ban Hammer 13,445]

Wow Charles.... you're NEVER speechless. And you're also NEVER at the bottom of the barrel

I never thought I'd be here...

The movers are coming for his things this week, Oct 2, and he is free to leave 'whenever'.... all of the paperwork has been signed and as soon as I get a court date (sometime after 11/9), it will be final. He doesn't need to be here for the court date and he is vague about when he wants his flight booked.... he says he can only think of one thing at a time, which at the moment is packing his stuff....

Jen

at times like this i am speechless. i never expected to see you in this forum. and that site apparently don't like me hotlinking, so here's photobucket to the rescue!

[ED*Riza 0]

I admire your honesty and your strength Jen.. God bless you and the Kids.. and to David as well.