Our Fairy Tale is Over

[MissStacey 1]

JenT- I look forward to that day in the future when you pop back in to post about all your new found happiness. That day when all this is behind you- the pain, the anger, the hundreds of other emotions one goes through when a marriage ends. I can tell you that you will get through this- and you will find the peace and happiness that you deserve.

[William33 110]

Jen,

Sorry to hear this news. I know you will find the happiness that you deserve.

All the best to you.

[SusieK 3]

Jen,

I dont know your story but from what you wrote - but I stumbled across this post perhaps by mistake but was taken aback by the honesty and solitude of the posting.

To wish you the best in the future is a given, but one thing in life I learned very early on " I REFUSE TO LIVE LIFE WITH WHATIF'S. You will not have that so that will only be a chapter in your book of lifetime memories. You have now gone onto a new chapter to live and with that step forward and embrace that you have turned the page - our books in life are dog eared in certain places for certain reasons and I truly believe its for us to go back and read and say oh ok, now I understand what was being said.

Only the most kindest wishes of a happy and healthy future for your family.

Cheers

Susie

[JenT 0]

... this journey is no walk in the park and is not for the faint hearted.

Very true words, Lisa. There are so many unknowns when one embarks on a journey such as this.... I did what I knew how to do in order to make the best decision I could about whether to accept David's proposal or not. For example, I always thought it was important to meet a prospective partner's family and friends. By them, you can generally get a better measure of your partner's character and upbringing. We can't choose our family and those relationships shape our upbringing... but we do choose our friends and that says a lot about the traits we value in other people. Without going into specifics, I was (for the most part) reassured by the people in David's life whom I met. Of course, given the limited time we had together in Germany, my exposure to family and friends was somewhat limited.

I hate to use the word 'baggage' but it's easily understood by most, so I will... We each bring 'baggage' into a relationship... the older you are, the more life experience you've had, the more baggage you have, and the more you have been shaped by that experience and baggage. For those of you who are evaluating your circumstances... don't minimize the effect of that 'baggage'. Some people learn from their mistakes and attempt not to repeat them. Others... not so much. I tried to understand how the baggage that David and I each brought to the relationship would affect the marriage. There is imbalance to the equation, however.... one never knows the extent of the baggage that someone else brings to the table. But.... as long as two people are willing to work to make the marriage strong, the effect of the baggage is minimized. The problems begin when the baggage begins to take over and the willingness to sort it out dissolves.

Early on, I remember asking David not to put me in the same category as the other women in his life.... again, without getting into details, it was clear that in many cases, after we were married, he was responding to me as if I were his mother, an ex-girlfriend, or his ex-wife. He never found a way to break that pattern and I resented not being seen for who I was. But he never learned how to react any differently and it was clear after months of therapy, that he really wasn't interested in trying. He just thought I was trying to change him. All I was trying to change was how we related to each other, but we never made any progress. I tried writing letters to him and once, I was ridiculed for that. I just didn't know how else to communicate with him and I began to feel like my thoughts and feelings didn't matter. He was too mired in his own self-pity to see beyond it.

Another unknown was his potential for being able to find a job here, as is true for so many. Before he left Germany, he declared that it didn't matter where he worked... as long as he had a job. Unfortunately, once he arrived, that was not the case. He found a job with a local landscaping firm that first summer. It gave him some place to be... some other men to relate to. But after a short time, the company lost a large contract in the area and had to let people go. After that, it seemed as if his job search was similar to the search for the Holy Grail. Nothing was good enough. When I suggested he apply at a local bank when they had bank teller openings, his response was, "What... do you want to break my spirit?" what?!?!?! A year later and David still not having a job, with credit card debt for the first time in my life, I was beginning to feel as though I was being taken advantage of... especially when he refused to show any initiative around the house with respect to cleaning and yard work. I didn't understand what he did all day long. It got to the point where he would only do his 'own' dishes and leave others in the sink... how does one respond kindly to that?

So this post has turned into a much larger post than intended.... I thought I had said all I thought I needed to say in my first post, but many of you are bringing up points that make me remember other things... I appreciate your indulgence and the opportunity to share my experience. Soon, this thread will be buried with all of the others, but I hope it makes a difference as long as it 'lives'.

Jen

[JenT 0]

Jen,

I dont know your story but from what you wrote - but I stumbled across this post perhaps by mistake but was taken aback by the honesty and solitude of the posting.

To wish you the best in the future is a given, but one thing in life I learned very early on " I REFUSE TO LIVE LIFE WITH WHATIF'S. You will not have that so that will only be a chapter in your book of lifetime memories. You have now gone onto a new chapter to live and with that step forward and embrace that you have turned the page - our books in life are dog eared in certain places for certain reasons and I truly believe its for us to go back and read and say oh ok, now I understand what was being said.

Only the most kindest wishes of a happy and healthy future for your family.

Cheers

Susie

Thanks Susie... very insightful. Someone else mentioned 'what ifs' too.... and you're both right... only now, the what ifs could be... "what if we tried harder? what If I were more patient? what if, given more time, David would have accepted that he needed medical treatment for his depression? what if I had not pressured him to find a job and just let him be? what if he were finally able to accept that my daughters are my first priority? what if he'd given himself more time to find his initiative to seek out fellow musicians? what if he accepted that life in the US was not going to be like life in Germany or the UK? what if we'd had more money to be able to take vacations and spend more time one-on-one? (we never even had a honeymoon....)"

I could go on and on, but you see the point. Every life event leads to what ifs... some are answered, some are not. Your reference to dog-eared pages is a very visual one and reminds me of the saying 'hindsight is 20/20'. Only for some things, there is no hindsight. There are only more 'what ifs'.

But we can't live in The Land of the What-Ifs if we are to move forward with our lives... and with time, I will be able to do that.

Jen

[rebeccajo 14]

Well, this is what I get for rarely going into the upper forums anymore. And especially my even more rare readings in this one.

Jen -

I am unbelievably devastated to read your news. I honestly never thought I'd see this. I had sensed an unidentifiable melancholy in some of our last PM's but I wasn't able to put my finger on it. I had simply put it down to a bad day; to the adjustments of a new marriage - who knows.

But I'm not surprised at all to see you post your news so frankly- it was always like you to post with honesty and clarity. Your writings now, I'm certain, are cathartic for you. A release. As they should be.

As both of use are 'old-timers' to this board we can both attest to the fact that it's unpopular on VJ to speak of anything being more horrible than the separation of an LDR and the wait for the visa. During our wait for Wes' greencard (17 months) I frequently tried to express to readers how debilitating THAT waiting was also. Frequently I think I failed to get the message across.

I've also occassionally commented that one of the things you read EACH DAY on VJ is a fallacy, although an innocent one. And it's something Wes and I said too. "If we can get through this long distance relationship, we can get through anything".

Nothing could be further from the truth.

I've always said that I have the utmost respect for those who give up all they know to move around the world in the name of love. It's a courageous leap of faith. We read tales here so often of USC's who feel they've been defrauded by the foreign spouse. How often is it also that we don't read of the USC with the unrealistic expectation that their SO will land on US soil and immediately acclimate?

Jen, you write about your feelings now with such clarity, such accuracy. You see others here telling you they've felt the same; wondered about the same things; struggled - some with success, some not. You wonder if you'd spent more time physically together if you would have known more about each other. You wonder if you had not rushed the visa and spent more time apart if you would have known more about each other. You even wonder if you had your 'eyes wide shut' to pitfalls.

So here's what I think, my friend. I think you loved him, and he loved you, and it would have mattered not if you had met and married right within the same town. You would have believed that the love would have overcome all. When we fall in love, that is what we do. We believe.

There are some differences in these relationships from the 'typical' vanilla relationship. There IS the risk of being overtly blind - I believe that someone who is so blinded in an international relationship would behave the same way in a domestic one. There's the risk to the alien who gives it all up, only to realize later the adjustments are too great. And of course there is international travel and phone calls at strange hours - the struggle to get the visa -

the stuff of romance. All those things that lead to eventually...........................

Normalcy. A man and a woman. Two people who won't always agree. Two people who won't always share the burden 50/50. Two people who will wake up somedays saying "OMG what have I done". Two people - two ordinary people with a wonderful story behind them, and thousands of normal tomorrows together. Two people who have to face all the adjustments of marriage (and they are many) along with cultural adjustments; financial adjustments; language barriers; religious differences.

Not a journey for the faint of heart. Not a journey to be taken lightly. Not a journey to be entered into because one is swept off their feet. Not a journey for everyone.

Jen - you took the journey. I hope we see you here often. I'm sure as time heals you, you'll have more to share. More that can help others see clearly.

You are one of my visajourney friends - one of my peers. I'm here for you now, just like I was then. Don't look back - just look forward.

Remember - you aren't faint of heart.

[idocare 3]

Wow,

Nice Rebeccajo, I'm touched by your deep support. Americans don't always see clearly

when it involves matters of the heart, especially when they are being told words encouraging

support, honesty, and love. How will we know?

[almaty 19]

sister jen,

i am here if needed..i know you and you are a fighter and gave the relationship your very best.....always your friend..dean

Edited September 22, 2008 by almaty

[*JG* 2]

Well, this is what I get for rarely going into the upper forums anymore. And especially my even more rare readings in this one.

Jen -

I am unbelievably devastated to read your news. I honestly never thought I'd see this. I had sensed an unidentifiable melancholy in some of our last PM's but I wasn't able to put my finger on it. I had simply put it down to a bad day; to the adjustments of a new marriage - who knows.

But I'm not surprised at all to see you post your news so frankly- it was always like you to post with honesty and clarity. Your writings now, I'm certain, are cathartic for you. A release. As they should be.

As both of use are 'old-timers' to this board we can both attest to the fact that it's unpopular on VJ to speak of anything being more horrible than the separation of an LDR and the wait for the visa. During our wait for Wes' greencard (17 months) I frequently tried to express to readers how debilitating THAT waiting was also. Frequently I think I failed to get the message across.

I've also occassionally commented that one of the things you read EACH DAY on VJ is a fallacy, although an innocent one. And it's something Wes and I said too. "If we can get through this long distance relationship, we can get through anything".

Nothing could be further from the truth.

I've always said that I have the utmost respect for those who give up all they know to move around the world in the name of love. It's a courageous leap of faith. We read tales here so often of USC's who feel they've been defrauded by the foreign spouse. How often is it also that we don't read of the USC with the unrealistic expectation that their SO will land on US soil and immediately acclimate?

Jen, you write about your feelings now with such clarity, such accuracy. You see others here telling you they've felt the same; wondered about the same things; struggled - some with success, some not. You wonder if you'd spent more time physically together if you would have known more about each other. You wonder if you had not rushed the visa and spent more time apart if you would have known more about each other. You even wonder if you had your 'eyes wide shut' to pitfalls.

So here's what I think, my friend. I think you loved him, and he loved you, and it would have mattered not if you had met and married right within the same town. You would have believed that the love would have overcome all. When we fall in love, that is what we do. We believe.

There are some differences in these relationships from the 'typical' vanilla relationship. There IS the risk of being overtly blind - I believe that someone who is so blinded in an international relationship would behave the same way in a domestic one. There's the risk to the alien who gives it all up, only to realize later the adjustments are too great. And of course there is international travel and phone calls at strange hours - the struggle to get the visa -

the stuff of romance. All those things that lead to eventually...........................

Normalcy. A man and a woman. Two people who won't always agree. Two people who won't always share the burden 50/50. Two people who will wake up somedays saying "OMG what have I done". Two people - two ordinary people with a wonderful story behind them, and thousands of normal tomorrows together. Two people who have to face all the adjustments of marriage (and they are many) along with cultural adjustments; financial adjustments; language barriers; religious differences.

Not a journey for the faint of heart. Not a journey to be taken lightly. Not a journey to be entered into because one is swept off their feet. Not a journey for everyone.

Jen - you took the journey. I hope we see you here often. I'm sure as time heals you, you'll have more to share. More that can help others see clearly.

You are one of my visajourney friends - one of my peers. I'm here for you now, just like I was then. Don't look back - just look forward.

Remember - you aren't faint of heart.

Beautifully said, RJ.

[JenT 0]

Hi Becc... your post really touched my heart. Thank you so much for your kind words and for taking the time to post. You have always been so helpful, supportive, and pragmatic… a true friend. When I thought of VJ over this last year, I often thought of writing you. I hope you will forgive me that I didn't. I thought about pm'ing a few people with the link to this post but that just didn't seem right (I only pm'd brother Dean because I read his post about him spending time with his dad and I thought this post might be buried by the time he returned). I can't really explain why I didn't reach out to everyone here sooner. I was overwhelmed with the situation I found myself in and we were on such a roller coaster, I really didn't confide in anyone at first, not even my closest family. I didn't want people to think poorly of David (especially if we were able to emerge from this as a stronger couple) and I was honestly embarrassed to admit that I found myself living in an abusive situation. I also didn't really want too much advice to influence my decision, especially when so few details can really be shared in a forum such as this.

Only a few people know about our intention to divorce, from my side… two people with whom I work, my best friend, and my immediate family. And now, all of you. When I told my girls, I expected their response to be pretty matter of fact. They've witnessed our silence, our physical distance, and our sleeping in separate rooms. Hopefully, though, they have not witnessed any of the nastiness…. I tried to be careful not to provoke an argument when the girls were with us. My youngest daughter, 13, reacted as expected and came over to give me a hug while I cried. My oldest, 16, started crying and said that she tried not to get attached, but she did. She said, "Now I have to go through this AGAIN. Why can't everyone just be happy? I'm tired of you and David arguing, and of dad and his wife arguing…." That broke my heart, because guess what? Had I never divorced their dad, NONE of this would even be happening. Mommy guilt galore.

Ultimately, I have to try to forgive myself for my part in all of this, and will somehow have to try to forgive David…. It's all going to take some time.

There are a few things you said, Becc, that I wanted to comment on:

...I've also occasionally commented that one of the things you read EACH DAY on VJ is a fallacy, although an innocent one. And it's something Wes and I said too. "If we can get through this long distance relationship, we can get through anything". Nothing could be further from the truth....

How many times did I say that to myself, and to David? We'd built a firm foundation of communication which I thought would give us an advantage over other couples…. The problem was, we weren't communicating about the right things because…..

.... I believe that someone who is so blinded in an international relationship would behave the same way in a domestic one....

… we were blinded by the romance of how it all started and by all of the details we needed to sort out... the business of immigration. We did go through pre-marital counseling during his 6-week visit here and we sought marriage counseling, but there was too much water rising over the dam by then. You can't take back the hurtful things that are said. Forgiveness is truly a lot harder than holding one's tongue.

Per your above quote, though Becc, someone may be equally blinded in a domestic relationship, but an international relationship has the added pressures of forms, deadlines, payments, and timelines. I really think that tends to cloud the reality for some. It did for us.

...Not a journey for the faint of heart. Not a journey to be taken lightly. Not a journey to be entered into because one is swept off their feet. Not a journey for everyone....

Swept off their feet…. Yep. That's what I was… and that's why I broke up with him at first. I didn't trust him, or myself. So when we resumed our relationship, it felt more 'intentional' and therefore, made it seem less risky. People cautioned us… "aren't you taking this too quickly?" On one hand, I knew we were, but on the other, I rationalized it by telling myself that I'd had enough life experience to know what I wanted, and I was willing to take the risk. So, when one is willing to take a risk, they must be equally willing to accept the consequences.

** hugs Becca ** and to Wes too….

sister jen,

i am here if needed..i know you and you are a fighter and gave the relationship your very best.....always your friend..dean

Thank you brother Dean, and for your pm as well.... you are a good friend.

Your sister,

Jen

[RandyM 0]

Jen,

Wishing you the better and brighter future, I saw you mentioned David is depressed, I am sure he is also going thru some major changes emotionally, I hope he overcomes his depression and find happiness and peace.

Life goes on!

[Caladan 19]

Beautiful thoughts, rebeccajo.

One thing I'd add is that even one can get to know one another over the Internet and phone, and with visits, is that it creates a very artificial context for the relationship, even if you are honest with each other, especially if there's a short courtship. Online one tends to focus on the person's absence, and what portrait of day-to-day life is presented is necessarily edited, even by the most honest person. And visits are usually (not always) vacations for one or both parties. It's easy to be in love when one is being showered with attention, going out to nice restaurants, and relaxing. In a relationship that developed in the same place, one would see the other person sometimes after work, or on weekends, in a normal context.

Moreover, I think we underestimate the stress of what is essentially forced unemployment for the immigrant, especially if the immigrant is used to being a breadwinner or independent. Many domestic marriages fail because of financial stress when someone loses a job; nearly every international marriage starts off with a ton of expenses, and one person not being able to work.

[rebeccajo 14]

Beautiful thoughts, rebeccajo.

One thing I'd add is that even one can get to know one another over the Internet and phone, and with visits, is that it creates a very artificial context for the relationship, even if you are honest with each other, especially if there's a short courtship. Online one tends to focus on the person's absence, and what portrait of day-to-day life is presented is necessarily edited, even by the most honest person. And visits are usually (not always) vacations for one or both parties. It's easy to be in love when one is being showered with attention, going out to nice restaurants, and relaxing. In a relationship that developed in the same place, one would see the other person sometimes after work, or on weekends, in a normal context.

Moreover, I think we underestimate the stress of what is essentially forced unemployment for the immigrant, especially if the immigrant is used to being a breadwinner or independent. Many domestic marriages fail because of financial stress when someone loses a job; nearly every international marriage starts off with a ton of expenses, and one person not being able to work.

I'd like to talk a bit more about the communication of our long-distance relationships, and the bit Caladan talks about above where she speaks of an honest person.

I don't think any of us want to give the impression that there is no value to what a couple can learn about each other while separated (I've re-read my post above a couple of times and wondered if I gave that impression). Quite the contrary, between honest people the couple can learn quite a lot. Wes and I used to talk about every little thing - what we had eaten that day; the weather; what happened at work and with family. We talked about religion and politics and our different cultures. We talked about driving on opposite sides of the road... .

I hope what readers take away from this discussion is how all the magnification of distance and longing in an LDR does level out after the couple is reunited. I know Wes and I always said (as everyone here does) that we couldn't wait to be 'normal'. The key for us has been reminding ourselves now that - well - normal is boring. Normal has ups and downs and normal has mood swings. Normal is having a lot of money some days and being broke on others.

And normal is remembering how to communicate. Something we hopefully did very well while we were apart, and bringing those skills back to the table on days when you don't like each other very much.........

Edited September 25, 2008 by rebeccajo

[Mrs.J06 4]

Beautiful thoughts, rebeccajo.

One thing I'd add is that even one can get to know one another over the Internet and phone, and with visits, is that it creates a very artificial context for the relationship, even if you are honest with each other, especially if there's a short courtship. Online one tends to focus on the person's absence, and what portrait of day-to-day life is presented is necessarily edited, even by the most honest person. And visits are usually (not always) vacations for one or both parties. It's easy to be in love when one is being showered with attention, going out to nice restaurants, and relaxing. In a relationship that developed in the same place, one would see the other person sometimes after work, or on weekends, in a normal context.

Moreover, I think we underestimate the stress of what is essentially forced unemployment for the immigrant, especially if the immigrant is used to being a breadwinner or independent. Many domestic marriages fail because of financial stress when someone loses a job; nearly every international marriage starts off with a ton of expenses, and one person not being able to work.

I agree very much with this.

Something else people never take into account is the fact that it takes most immigrants (all immigrants I know personally for sure) a long, long time to "be themselves" again after moving into a different country.

This doesn't mean that they are unhappy or not willing or capable to adjust, they are mostly doing fine, have jobs, slowly make friends but still feel like they are different personalities from who they were in the countries they were born and lived in for so long.

I'm no exception, I like living here, I'm very happy with my husband, but I'm still "not me". On happy days this does not bother me. When times aren't so good it comes to the surface and I suffer from being different. Many people still treat me like "X from Germany". I think it will take many years for this to go away.

If the circumstances like the relationship, job situation or finances are not ideal this adds additional stress and can lead to frustrations. The immigrant blocks adjustment and withdraws, like it seems JenT's David did, and the USC gets frustrated and feels like the alien does not try hard enough.

[LoriLawless 0]

Jen, I'm so sorry. Everyone has pretty much said what I think, especially Becca.

I hope that you can find it in yourself to forgive, learn from it and grow.

Please don't let all of this affect your self esteem, it's way too easy to let that happen.

Remember that you're a beautiful person and that you deserve the best that life has to offer you.

The fairy tale is the hardest thing to give up, believe me, I've been there.

Also, remember that as this chapter in your life closes, another opens.

You have a good head on your shoulders, so I'm sure you already know.

You take care of YOU, ok?