temporary GC & marriage annulment

[MihaelaNYS 10]

"1. Even if he get anulment in divorce court, for immigration purposes marriage was still valid.

I have read it in some INS docs. Check adjudicator's mannual on CIS website. Huge document with many chapters but covers most situations (and I am sure many lawyers dont remember all defenitions/...)."

This is interesting, I would appreciate if you could give me a link to the page or chapter... in the meantime I will read/research as much as possible by myself.

"2.As far as I remember, there is strikt definitions for annulment in NY (no sex, sickness, etc). I am sure that you would not qualify."

....

Well, there is also the fraud (as ground for annulment) that's what he's betting on.

I will try to find out what does he have to back up his claim (as somebody suggested) I am upset that costs me a lot of money (each time a lawyer does something for you, the money starts going bye-bye in no time). I tried to talk to my husband (kind a hard to call him "husband."..) but no luck in getting any useful information.

Regarding alimony, take this: although we've been married for over a year, because I have a decent job and income and I paied for all my expenses so far, I am not a candidate for alimony! Even tough he makes more money then me (more then 1,000/month with respect to my salary...).

I am concerned that at the time of removal of temporary condition, I`ll still be in the divorce proceeding, since he is contesting the divorce.

The one year extension is a joke!

Do you have any idea how long it takes for a divorce decree to be issued if both parties dont agree (contested divorce) ? Average, is 3-5 years.... or better said, minimum that...

Many immigration lawyers that I`ve been to, didnt know the answer to my question: what happends if he doesn't agree to the divorce ?

There has to be a good strategy for people in this situation... and reading this forum for a while now, I can tell: there are a lot of them!!! (unfortunately)

Thank you all for your input.

[justashooter 430]

to make it simple, your husband is seeking the annulment based on a fraud claim. if he succeeds before your visa conditions are removed, he can remove his affidavit of support, and your green card conversion is in jeopardy. you want to divorce him first, so your green card conversion is assured.

so he makes a thousand more than you in a month? how is it you feel entitled to a slice of this? this kind of income differential is common in divorces between US citizens, and no support is paid, especially in short marriages.

"The fact that he doesnt agree to divorce, is in itself a proof of abuse (what would be the reason to stay married to me..." so he yells at you once in awhile and reads your mail to see what is going on, and now wants to declare your marriage fraudulent? sounds like he is unhappy with your behaviour and doesn't believe the things you say.

i am in favour of the VAWA allowance for independent removal of conditions if the alleged "abuse" can be documented through significant and credible hospital records, criminal conviction, or at minimum, a police report in which the USC is named as responsible party. i am not in favour of VAWA allowance for independent removal of conditions based on anything less.

you came to the US to marry this guy. that marriage is over. why else would you want to stay in America? why not just go home to romania and save yourself all this trouble? or did you really come to US just to marry this guy?

[Caladan 19]

She has a green card already, justashooter. This isn't a VAWA case; this is what a spouse is allowed to do if the marriage ends once the conditional green card has been issued, which is to file to remove conditions on her own. You going on about VAWA is entirely irrelevant here.

[cdn_in_wa 1]

She has a green card already, justashooter. This isn't a VAWA case; this is what a spouse is allowed to do if the marriage ends once the conditional green card has been issued, which is to file to remove conditions on her own. You going on about VAWA is entirely irrelevant here.

I'm confused.

If the CGC holder can apply for and receive removal of conditions after divorce without VAWA, what's the point of issuing the conditional GC? I thought they issued a conditional GC because so many marriages end in divorce before 2 years - to stem the flow of short-marriage-based immigration which could be fraudulent (based on time of marriage)?

I really don't understand how the USCIS can just hand out 10yrGCs to any immigrant who divorces the USC before the 2 year removal of conditions. It does not make sense. They issue the 2yrGC - conditional because the marriage has been less than 2 years.

I do understand in VAWA cases as well as death of USC, but I also wonder why so many immigrants would want to stay in the US after such an experience. Wouldn't you want to return to a more familiar place, especially considering the lengthy adjustment period that many immigrants experience?

Or is it that the marriage, while possibly entered into in good faith, was just as importantly - if not more - an avenue for the non-USC to immigrate to the US?

[pushbrk 13,011]

She has a green card already, justashooter. This isn't a VAWA case; this is what a spouse is allowed to do if the marriage ends once the conditional green card has been issued, which is to file to remove conditions on her own. You going on about VAWA is entirely irrelevant here.

I'm confused.

If the CGC holder can apply for and receive removal of conditions after divorce without VAWA, what's the point of issuing the conditional GC? I thought they issued a conditional GC because so many marriages end in divorce before 2 years - to stem the flow of short-marriage-based immigration which could be fraudulent (based on time of marriage)?

I really don't understand how the USCIS can just hand out 10yrGCs to any immigrant who divorces the USC before the 2 year removal of conditions. It does not make sense. They issue the 2yrGC - conditional because the marriage has been less than 2 years.

I do understand in VAWA cases as well as death of USC, but I also wonder why so many immigrants would want to stay in the US after such an experience. Wouldn't you want to return to a more familiar place, especially considering the lengthy adjustment period that many immigrants experience?

Or is it that the marriage, while possibly entered into in good faith, was just as importantly - if not more - an avenue for the non-USC to immigrate to the US?

Nevertheless, the standard for approval is "entering the marriage in good faith", not "having a successful marriage". People who come here legitimately and legally often leave their lives and careers behind, then start new lives and careers here. Once they have conditional LPR status, they are allowed to continue their lives here, if their initial immigration was legitimate.

[cdn_in_wa 1]

She has a green card already, justashooter. This isn't a VAWA case; this is what a spouse is allowed to do if the marriage ends once the conditional green card has been issued, which is to file to remove conditions on her own. You going on about VAWA is entirely irrelevant here.

I'm confused.

If the CGC holder can apply for and receive removal of conditions after divorce without VAWA, what's the point of issuing the conditional GC? I thought they issued a conditional GC because so many marriages end in divorce before 2 years - to stem the flow of short-marriage-based immigration which could be fraudulent (based on time of marriage)?

I really don't understand how the USCIS can just hand out 10yrGCs to any immigrant who divorces the USC before the 2 year removal of conditions. It does not make sense. They issue the 2yrGC - conditional because the marriage has been less than 2 years.

I do understand in VAWA cases as well as death of USC, but I also wonder why so many immigrants would want to stay in the US after such an experience. Wouldn't you want to return to a more familiar place, especially considering the lengthy adjustment period that many immigrants experience?

Or is it that the marriage, while possibly entered into in good faith, was just as importantly - if not more - an avenue for the non-USC to immigrate to the US?

Nevertheless, the standard for approval is "entering the marriage in good faith", not "having a successful marriage". People who come here legitimately and legally often leave their lives and careers behind, then start new lives and careers here. Once they have conditional LPR status, they are allowed to continue their lives here, if their initial immigration was legitimate.

Wow.

Sounds like the 2yrGC (issued for less than 2 year marriage based immigrants?) is a waste of time for USCIS then. Why bother if USCIS allows removal of conditions regardless of the continuation of the marriage?

Seems like it would be easier, for someone looking to immigrate, to marry a USC (pretending to be in love with them), get AOS, then divorce the USC and go through the ROC alone, than to go through ROC together (where they might require proof of an ongoing bona fide relationship).

And I'm not sure how much of a career most immigrants can establish in less than 2 years of being here, what with the wait for EAD, adjusting to a new country, etc.

I wonder just how high the bar is set to prove the good faith/bona fide marriage. If a marriage can't last 2 years before the bloom is off the rose, is it really bona fide?

Little wonder so many USCs are screaming 'yank the GC' when their marriage fails after such a short time.

[MihaelaNYS 10]

I started this topic trying to find answers to legal issues, from the legal point of view and according to the laws and proceedings in US.

The moral, emotional and psychological issues regarding my case, I will discuss them on a new topic.

Not because I want or need anybody's compassion or understanding but because, it has been a learning experience for me and I think it will be useful for the immigrant women that are engaged or married with American Citizens and intend to immigrate to US or are in an abusive relationship ...

[justashooter 430]

She has a green card already, justashooter. This isn't a VAWA case; this is what a spouse is allowed to do if the marriage ends once the conditional green card has been issued, which is to file to remove conditions on her own. You going on about VAWA is entirely irrelevant here.

VAWA is a near guarrantee of success in removal of conditions at the two year mark. unfortunately, it seems that this guarrantee can sometimes be engineered by the applicant without valid cause.

could be that this girl came to the US with innocent dreams of a shining knight on a white horse and got a soiled rouge, instead. could be he is a real creep, and his family, too. could be she is just seeking US residency, and he is not to blame at all for wanting to protect himself. too little information to know.

what we do know, is that the OP has made LPR status her current goal. we can also assume that an annulment would prevent her from acheiving it. she has openly claimed "abuse" in this thread, but given no indication that true abuse (violent behaviour) has occured. this claim prompts my comments related to VAWA.

mihaela,

we are not looking to slam you. there are good people and bad people in this world. part of the "American" culture is an inherent understanding that in the end, good people will win, and bad people will loose. whichever one you are, we hope you get what you deserve. it's only fair.

divorce can be a nasty business, even between two USC. i could tell you the story of my divorce from a police person who was my first wife. you would hear about her malicious prosecution and false testimony after loosing custody of our children to me, and about how bad it is for a police person's carreer to be served with a restraining order by the county sherrif at the direction of a county president judge. i could tell you the story of my brother's on-going divorce after 25 years marriage to a woman who is throwing away their life's fortune, and attempting to trash his business.

in the end, good people always turn out OK, and bad people always trash their own lives. just the way it is.

[russian_armenian 4]

I guess if ground for annulment is fraud and he wins it, your chances for I-751 approval are slim. USCIS cares that you entered with good faith (I guess that is why annulment might pass for immigration purposes). But if divorce court would go with fraud, your I-751 might be denied based on fraud. And if I-751 denied based on fraud, so affidevit of support is revoked. I guess that is what your husband wants.

My understanding that affidevit of support issue is just an excuse because both of you would spend more money and time on lawyers than he would ever require to pay you based on affidevit of support (since you eare working, you are not planning to get any ss money or gov assistance, rihgt?). So, he just wants to punish you for whatever and he understands that it is very inrational. So, he gets this excuse-he is afraid that affidevit of support would be enforeced and wants to prevent it and ready to pay $$$ for this possible threat.

What I know, it takes a few years to finalize contested divorce. (from people I know)

I feel for you, but you need to fight annulment with all resources you have.

About I-751, there an option to file under "separated but not divorced". So, you would be legal all the time till decree.

I guess evidence you would submit in family court, would be enough for I-751. Because now you are fighting to proove that you have entered a marriage with good faith. The same is required for I-751.

Good luck.

"1. Even if he get anulment in divorce court, for immigration purposes marriage was still valid.

I have read it in some INS docs. Check adjudicator's mannual on CIS website. Huge document with many chapters but covers most situations (and I am sure many lawyers dont remember all defenitions/...)."

This is interesting, I would appreciate if you could give me a link to the page or chapter... in the meantime I will read/research as much as possible by myself.

"2.As far as I remember, there is strikt definitions for annulment in NY (no sex, sickness, etc). I am sure that you would not qualify."

....

Well, there is also the fraud (as ground for annulment) that's what he's betting on.

I will try to find out what does he have to back up his claim (as somebody suggested) I am upset that costs me a lot of money (each time a lawyer does something for you, the money starts going bye-bye in no time). I tried to talk to my husband (kind a hard to call him "husband."..) but no luck in getting any useful information.

Regarding alimony, take this: although we've been married for over a year, because I have a decent job and income and I paied for all my expenses so far, I am not a candidate for alimony! Even tough he makes more money then me (more then 1,000/month with respect to my salary...).

I am concerned that at the time of removal of temporary condition, I`ll still be in the divorce proceeding, since he is contesting the divorce.

The one year extension is a joke!

Do you have any idea how long it takes for a divorce decree to be issued if both parties dont agree (contested divorce) ? Average, is 3-5 years.... or better said, minimum that...

Many immigration lawyers that I`ve been to, didnt know the answer to my question: what happends if he doesn't agree to the divorce ?

There has to be a good strategy for people in this situation... and reading this forum for a while now, I can tell: there are a lot of them!!! (unfortunately)

Thank you all for your input.

[russian_armenian 4]

Justahooter,

I dont even want to mention that immigrants have uprooted themself, and going back home is the same as start from the scratch (everything was sold for pennies, job was quited, network is lost; in many countries devorcees to succesful man are viewed as loosers, etc). Sure with effort, life back home would be normalized again (and after all the stress and effort put into family here and to get a job in US, etc).

But even to go back home, OP needs to finalize divorce; it would be difficult to do cross-countiries. So, are you suggesting to agree with husband and consent to fraud charges? Is that the option OP should take? It might not be a WAVA case but some more or less typical situation many USC/USC divorcees are experiencing. But for immigrants it is double stressful due to uncertainty in status and future.

Plus, I know some girls who got divorced their succesful USC husbands. Very painfull time because all of them hoped to have a nice life and a loving husband was part of that dream and nothing told them that USC would not be that man they dreamed for. Living together sometimes just does not work. But there is nothing wrong in wanting to have a nice life (as long as you dont deliberately use the somebody).

to make it simple, your husband is seeking the annulment based on a fraud claim. if he succeeds before your visa conditions are removed, he can remove his affidavit of support, and your green card conversion is in jeopardy. you want to divorce him first, so your green card conversion is assured.

so he makes a thousand more than you in a month? how is it you feel entitled to a slice of this? this kind of income differential is common in divorces between US citizens, and no support is paid, especially in short marriages.

"The fact that he doesnt agree to divorce, is in itself a proof of abuse (what would be the reason to stay married to me..." so he yells at you once in awhile and reads your mail to see what is going on, and now wants to declare your marriage fraudulent? sounds like he is unhappy with your behaviour and doesn't believe the things you say.

i am in favour of the VAWA allowance for independent removal of conditions if the alleged "abuse" can be documented through significant and credible hospital records, criminal conviction, or at minimum, a police report in which the USC is named as responsible party. i am not in favour of VAWA allowance for independent removal of conditions based on anything less.

you came to the US to marry this guy. that marriage is over. why else would you want to stay in America? why not just go home to romania and save yourself all this trouble? or did you really come to US just to marry this guy?

[Caladan 19]

She has a green card already, justashooter. This isn't a VAWA case; this is what a spouse is allowed to do if the marriage ends once the conditional green card has been issued, which is to file to remove conditions on her own. You going on about VAWA is entirely irrelevant here.

I'm confused.

If the CGC holder can apply for and receive removal of conditions after divorce without VAWA, what's the point of issuing the conditional GC? I thought they issued a conditional GC because so many marriages end in divorce before 2 years - to stem the flow of short-marriage-based immigration which could be fraudulent (based on time of marriage)?

I really don't understand how the USCIS can just hand out 10yrGCs to any immigrant who divorces the USC before the 2 year removal of conditions. It does not make sense. They issue the 2yrGC - conditional because the marriage has been less than 2 years.

I do understand in VAWA cases as well as death of USC, but I also wonder why so many immigrants would want to stay in the US after such an experience. Wouldn't you want to return to a more familiar place, especially considering the lengthy adjustment period that many immigrants experience?

Or is it that the marriage, while possibly entered into in good faith, was just as importantly - if not more - an avenue for the non-USC to immigrate to the US?

Nevertheless, the standard for approval is "entering the marriage in good faith", not "having a successful marriage". People who come here legitimately and legally often leave their lives and careers behind, then start new lives and careers here. Once they have conditional LPR status, they are allowed to continue their lives here, if their initial immigration was legitimate.

Wow.

Sounds like the 2yrGC (issued for less than 2 year marriage based immigrants?) is a waste of time for USCIS then. Why bother if USCIS allows removal of conditions regardless of the continuation of the marriage?

Seems like it would be easier, for someone looking to immigrate, to marry a USC (pretending to be in love with them), get AOS, then divorce the USC and go through the ROC alone, than to go through ROC together (where they might require proof of an ongoing bona fide relationship).

And I'm not sure how much of a career most immigrants can establish in less than 2 years of being here, what with the wait for EAD, adjusting to a new country, etc.

I wonder just how high the bar is set to prove the good faith/bona fide marriage. If a marriage can't last 2 years before the bloom is off the rose, is it really bona fide?

Little wonder so many USCs are screaming 'yank the GC' when their marriage fails after such a short time.

Bona fide is just bona fide intentions. It doesn't require a judgment of whether the couple really thought it through before getting married, or an assessment of compatibility or whether they'd be likely to make it long term. It doesn't require anyone to be attractive or sensible or anything. (And a good thing, too! Lots of people would be screaming about how they couldn't get the initial visa if they had to prove compatibility.)

And it might not be about establishing a career in two years. It might be that you'd be a shamed woman if you went back home divorced, or that after two years you're starting to settle in, or that you don't have much to return to at all, etc. Or that, hell, you've just uprooted your life and are starting to get settled. Many do go home.

And it's not as easy as you think. One has to prove bona fide intentions *and receive the conditional green card*, and then to petition on one's own, one would have to have the divorce finalized in time to lift conditions. There's a number of posts from people whose marriage is failing but they're still married when it's time to remove conditions. Divorces take time, as the OP understands.

To the OP: get an attorney. I don't know the laws on your state on annulment (it's usually hard to get one a year into a marriage) but the thing is, neither does anyone else here. You'll want whatever divorce/annulment that occurs to happen in a way that it's in your favor, and attorney is going to be your best bet for that.

[rika60607 215]

I am sure this is incorrect.

I hope it is correct.

Can you provide a link to the source?

About I-751, there an option to file under "separated but not divorced". So, you would be legal all the time till decree.

[Eagleeye 1]

Just curious what state did you get married what are the grouds for divorce/annulement in your state?

[Eagleeye 1]

"1. Even if he get anulment in divorce court, for immigration purposes marriage was still valid.

I have read it in some INS docs. Check adjudicator's mannual on CIS website. Huge document with many chapters but covers most situations (and I am sure many lawyers dont remember all defenitions/...)."

This is interesting, I would appreciate if you could give me a link to the page or chapter... in the meantime I will read/research as much as possible by myself.

"2.As far as I remember, there is strikt definitions for annulment in NY (no sex, sickness, etc). I am sure that you would not qualify."

....

Well, there is also the fraud (as ground for annulment) that's what he's betting on.

I will try to find out what does he have to back up his claim (as somebody suggested) I am upset that costs me a lot of money (each time a lawyer does something for you, the money starts going bye-bye in no time). I tried to talk to my husband (kind a hard to call him "husband."..) but no luck in getting any useful information.

Regarding alimony, take this: although we've been married for over a year, because I have a decent job and income and I paied for all my expenses so far, I am not a candidate for alimony! Even tough he makes more money then me (more then 1,000/month with respect to my salary...).

I am concerned that at the time of removal of temporary condition, I`ll still be in the divorce proceeding, since he is contesting the divorce.

The one year extension is a joke!

Do you have any idea how long it takes for a divorce decree to be issued if both parties dont agree (contested divorce) ? Average, is 3-5 years.... or better said, minimum that...

Many immigration lawyers that I`ve been to, didnt know the answer to my question: what happends if he doesn't agree to the divorce ?

There has to be a good strategy for people in this situation... and reading this forum for a while now, I can tell: there are a lot of them!!! (unfortunately)

Thank you all for your input.

[Eagleeye 1]

"1. Even if he get anulment in divorce court, for immigration purposes marriage was still valid.

I have read it in some INS docs. Check adjudicator's mannual on CIS website. Huge document with many chapters but covers most situations (and I am sure many lawyers dont remember all defenitions/...)."

This is interesting, I would appreciate if you could give me a link to the page or chapter... in the meantime I will read/research as much as possible by myself.

"2.As far as I remember, there is strikt definitions for annulment in NY (no sex, sickness, etc). I am sure that you would not qualify."

....

Well, there is also the fraud (as ground for annulment) that's what he's betting on.

I will try to find out what does he have to back up his claim (as somebody suggested) I am upset that costs me a lot of money (each time a lawyer does something for you, the money starts going bye-bye in no time). I tried to talk to my husband (kind a hard to call him "husband."..) but no luck in getting any useful information.

Regarding alimony, take this: although we've been married for over a year, because I have a decent job and income and I paied for all my expenses so far, I am not a candidate for alimony! Even tough he makes more money then me (more then 1,000/month with respect to my salary...).

I am concerned that at the time of removal of temporary condition, I`ll still be in the divorce proceeding, since he is contesting the divorce.

The one year extension is a joke!

Do you have any idea how long it takes for a divorce decree to be issued if both parties dont agree (contested divorce) ? Average, is 3-5 years.... or better said, minimum that...

Many immigration lawyers that I`ve been to, didnt know the answer to my question: what happends if he doesn't agree to the divorce ?

There has to be a good strategy for people in this situation... and reading this forum for a while now, I can tell: there are a lot of them!!! (unfortunately)

Thank you all for your input.

take on step at a time worry about immigration later.The fight you have right now is to proove your marriage was in good faith, your husbands previous case of rape could give you credit. Had you come before you could have filed for a " motion to strike'' his claim as irrelevant...........Treat it like that.

in your proceedings,get a darn good divorce lawyer.I personally would not suggest you to go into any claims for monetray settlement.Lastly be on the defensive let him come up with the "stories" while you focus on watering them down.

Goodluck.