Why Feminists Hate Sarah Palin

[Sofiyya 1,687]

To muck up your stereotypes, I admit that I'm not only conservative, but pro-choice. My faith allows for early abortion, but I could never have one. Having given birth to five kids, I know it's not for everyone. Yet, our society isn't honest about family life or the reality of raising children. I advocate abstinance before marriage, and less exhibitionism in our cultural norms, which sexualizes pretty much everyone and everything.

Another reason that Sarah Palin is in opposition to most women. I don't really mind if you advocate abstinance before marriage. But I believe that people should have easy access to good sex education and contraception. So that if young women and men choose not to do what they were taught, and have sex they can prevent unwanted pregnancy. Sarah Palin would hinder this feminist cause too.

Yep.

I'll ask again, what evidence do you have that she has done anything to impede reproductive choice in her positions as mayor or govenor? I am not aware of any barriers having been imposed by her, and I talk regularly to friends and relatives in AK.

Do not make the elementary mistake of confusing murder with death. They are not interchangeable concepts.

I am aware that they are not interchangable concepts, but the concept of murder is interlinked to abortion. Is the intent of abortion to cause a live birth or to prevent a live birth? Answer honestly, please.

[VisaJourneyLady 33]

Why oh why do people always think that abortion is the only female centric issue, and abortion and gay rights are the only dem platforms. It's a staggering simplification.

[Peikko 1,575]

VW, I have no intention of answering your loaded questions. I understand exactly what abortion is and what it entails. I am fully aware that it is the termination of a potential life but it is not murder. As long as women are unable to prevent pregnancies that could be in some way detrimental to that woman, every women should have the option to terminate a pregnancy. There are already guidlines on when a foetus becomes a viable life and these should be the guide lines that are used - and indeed are.

Ok, I think that paragraph requires some revision.

Edited September 16, 2008 by Madame Cleo

[Sofiyya 1,687]

feminism n. advocacy of women's rights and sexual equality.

Sexual equality with whom or what?

to the opposite sex?

How would that be achieved?

umm? lol... what are you asking me? how women aren't sexually equal to men?

that definition is from the oxford english dictionary btw, don't shoot the messenger

Not shooting the messanger. Just wondering how sexual equality is to be achived when men and women are inherently sexually unequal due to biology and physiology. Is the premise a platitude or a legitimate goal?

ummmm, lets see, she didn't do a very good job with her own daughter.

She's done fine with her daughter. Her daughter is loved, accepted and supported; not rejected and scorned. They also realize that it takes two to tango, so the father is not optional. No one is advocating perfection, just better choices. Barack NObama said he didn't want his daughters "punished" with a baby. Are babies punishment to you?

Sarah Palin herself got pregnant and had a shotgun wedding and now her daughter is doing the same. The abstinance doctrine left both mother and daughter with unwanted pregnancies. The loved, accepted, supported stuff that was all over the convention is severly missing the point. The point is that both women were left in a situation that they did not choose to be in (and the men in their lives for that matter). They were both lacking in choices because of a church doctine that has served to keep women down for centuries. It's one thing to make mistakes, but to continue the same behaviour and expect different results is madness.

I'm not sure how you can say they both have "unwanted" pregnancies. That sounds like projection on your part. Not all wanted pregnancies are planned, nor are all unplanned pregnancies unwanted. The choice to spread your legs IS a feminist choice AND a choice to take on a pregnancy since there is no fool-proof way to prevent one and no reason to reward second thoughts by allowing unconditional murder. Murder is not a feminist concept, nor should it be.

[Peikko 1,575]

Your religious fundamentalism is showing.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

VW, I have no intention of answering your loaded questions. I understand exactly what abortion is and what it entails. I am fully aware that it is the termination of a potential life but it is not murder. As long as women are unable to prevent pregnancies that could be in some way detrimental to that woman, every women should have the option to terminate a pregnancy. There are already guidlines on when a foetus becomes a viable life and these should be the guide lines that are used - and indeed are.

Ok, I think that paragraph requires some revision.

It is a FACT that one must KILL a life to have an abortion. To engage in semantics that allow maintainance of denial doesn't require me to indulge the fantasy of abortion without intending death to the fetus. I am perfectly willing to take responsibilty for my pro-choice position by admitting that by doing so, I advocate murder of an innocent life. For the sake of intellectual honesty, it is impossible to do anything less.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Your religious fundamentalism is showing.

You are reaching. I'm pro-choice, but I don't lie about what that entails. That is fundamental to reality. whether one is religious or not.

[Peikko 1,575]

Dress up your words all you like, it's not murder. A foetus is killed, but that doesn't make it a murder. Denial? You are priceless VW because you always 'know' what goes on in the heads of everyone around you. Excellent, please do carry on telling me how I, and everyone else thinks, particularly if you can cast your metaphorical stones in the process.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Oh, and I don't think even you VW have the magic powers required to decide under what basis any woman other than youself might justify their decision to abort a foetus. You have concluded that it's because 'too many' lie to themselves about what an abortion entails without one jot of evidence.

Your posts are evidence. The avoidance of answering my questions are evidence. They can't be honestly answered without concluding that abortion kills, something you don't want to do.

Dress up your words all you like, it's not murder. A foetus is killed, but that doesn't make it a murder. Denial? You are priceless VW because you always 'know' what goes on in the heads of everyone around you. Excellent, please do carry on telling me how I, and everyone else thinks, particularly if you can cast your metaphorical stones in the process.

More evidence. This has nothing to do with what goes on in your head. The reality of abortion is not about you.

[Peikko 1,575]

It's really quite simple, if you aren't able to have control of your own body (ie, if you can't choose to have an abortion under any circumstances) then you don't have control over your life unless you adopt a no sex policy. I don't really see how it can be that hard to understand. Pro choice is simply understanding that women have that control WHETHER OR NOT they choose to excercise that choice in the circumstance of terminating a pregnancy. Being pro choice is the only FEMINIST choice because it's the only one that keeps the choice under the control of the woman herself and not some outside agency.

If you can't understand that concept, well, really.

Oh, as for the OP, it's a load of bollocks, as usual.

Seriously, this pro life stuff has seriously warped some people's brains. Pro choice is not some 'let's all have an abortion' option. Sheesh!

Being pro-choice is NOT the only feminist choice. It's the only LIBERAL feminist choice. The definition of feminism is subjective.

Correct. She can only be pro life for her own person and remain a feminist. If she is pro life for everyone else, she is imposing her will on other women, hence the other women are no longer able to be in control of her their lives hence not feminist. For better or for worse that's how it is.

When reproduction is a public policy issue, it is not so simple as to say that abortion gives women control of their lives. If I had to vote on it, I would vote against abortion, even tho I am generally pro-choice. I would do so because I don't consider murder - am I willingly admit that abortion is murder -is what women must have to be in control.

You would vote against anyone else having the choice? How does that work if you are pro-choice?

Your religious fundamentalism shows in every post where you blame those who don't conform to your narrow view of what is and isn't acceptable sexual behaviour. You have the right to your own view of course, but your view is religious fundamentalism.

VW, stop reaching inside my head. I don't deny the death but I do deny the murder. A non viable foetus has no seperate identity or rights that require your or my protection.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Applying the murder label to women who choose to have abortions (for any number of reasons) is inherently dodgy.

[rocks 494]

Not shooting the messanger. Just wondering how sexual equality is to be achived when men and women are inherently sexually unequal due to biology and physiology. Is the premise a platitude or a legitimate goal?

i don't think it's referring to to the body, just equalities in life?

[Peikko 1,575]

Well, to be fair she can't help it, her religion prevents her from seeing the lack of logic and rationality.

[akdiver 3]

Damn! Are you guys still at it?

[Peikko 1,575]

Not shooting the messanger. Just wondering how sexual equality is to be achived when men and women are inherently sexually unequal due to biology and physiology. Is the premise a platitude or a legitimate goal?

i don't think it's referring to to the body, just equalities in life?

You have to understand that VW is looking at this from the perspective of one who adheres to a religious view that is at odds with the notion that women can have postive life goals that don't involve reproduction and marriage.