Why Feminists Hate Sarah Palin

[GaryC 7]

A person who purports to be a feminist but supports legislation that prohibits the excercise of control over their own body and therefore their ultimate destiny is contradictory.

It seems that your definition of a "feminist" is a lot narrower than others. Since some women think that abortion is wrong but still want all the other rights fought for by the woman's liberation movement I don't see how you can exclude them. They don't see abortion as a right to be sought after.

[symbiosis 0]

Exodus 21:22-23 clears it all up:

If men quarrel, and one strike a woman with child and she miscarry indeed, but live herself: he shall be answerable for so much damage as the woman's husband shall require, and as arbiters shall award. 23 But if her death ensue thereupon, he shall render life for life.

child's death = fine; her death = death

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

I don't think its the sort of thing that really dates to be honest - unless of course the cultural outlook that provides the context becomes radically different.

But I am certainly curious as to which Feminist figures represent the current state of thinking on the subject.

I know a lot of women who don't identify with Andrea Dworkin at all

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex-positive_feminism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third-wave_feminism

Although most "third wave" feminists support reproductive rights

I think her position on pornography is quite interesting - basically that amounts to a form of indentured slavery. Certainly when women started taking ownership of pornography - I think is not too dissimilar to that other debate on the the use of the "N" word in the black community.

I think her POV assumes that women do not join the porn industry of their own free will, which is paints women as timid victims. Although I'm sure there are a lot of women in the sex industry who don't want to be there are many that do and that is their choice. I would separate stripping your way through grad school with human trafficking.

[IAMX 3,055]

I don't think its the sort of thing that really dates to be honest - unless of course the cultural outlook that provides the context becomes radically different.

But I am certainly curious as to which Feminist figures represent the current state of thinking on the subject.

I know a lot of women who don't identify with Andrea Dworkin at all

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex-positive_feminism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third-wave_feminism

Although most "third wave" feminists support reproductive rights

I think her position on pornography is quite interesting - basically that amounts to a form of indentured slavery. Certainly when women started taking ownership of pornography - I think is not too dissimilar to that other debate on the the use of the "N" word in the black community.

That view (sex-positive.. lol?) of porn is quite.. extreme. Sex positive feminists completely overlook the choice factor made in pornography, and kowtow to retarded beliefs that porn is bad or porn is slavery. Sounds much like the conservative beliefs about being gay is a choice, or the science of god.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Good luck finding many feminists who would want to join Sarah Palin from the Bay Area.

Being a conservative feminist would make little sense, as feminists are for women's rights, and conservatives have little vested interest in protecting women's rights. Even one of the most conservative feminists, Kay Bailey Hutchison, has voted to erode women's rights and get the ire of feminist groups.

Conservative feminism is quite contradictory in and of itself. Conservatives aren't known for fighting for rights of any sort unless it's their own.

My (very limited) understanding of it is that it amounts to collaborating in your own repression - especially when the arguments and justifications for it are presented as issues of religion (and religious morality) rather than of individual or rights. It isn't hard to see if you consider that the major religious systems actually promote patriarchal ideologies.

[Peikko 1,575]

The would task would be a lot simpler if instead of laying the focus on if women should be allowed to continue to make their own decisions about pregnancy with this continual demand that abortion be made illegal and all the ramifications that would lead to to ensuring girls and women understand their bodies and how they work. Education in family planning and availibilty of preventative measures coupled with more emphasis on making girls aware that they have more to offer themselves, their families and communities than sex and babies.

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

I don't think its the sort of thing that really dates to be honest - unless of course the cultural outlook that provides the context becomes radically different.

But I am certainly curious as to which Feminist figures represent the current state of thinking on the subject.

I know a lot of women who don't identify with Andrea Dworkin at all

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex-positive_feminism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third-wave_feminism

Although most "third wave" feminists support reproductive rights

I think her position on pornography is quite interesting - basically that amounts to a form of indentured slavery. Certainly when women started taking ownership of pornography - I think is not too dissimilar to that other debate on the the use of the "N" word in the black community.

That view (sex-positive.. lol?) of porn is quite.. extreme. Sex positive feminists completely overlook the choice factor made in pornography, and kowtow to retarded beliefs that porn is bad or porn is slavery. Sounds much like the conservative beliefs about being gay is a choice, or the science of god.

I think you've got it switched round - sex positive feminists recognize the choice - many (like Annie Sprinkle) are sex workers themselves

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I don't think its the sort of thing that really dates to be honest - unless of course the cultural outlook that provides the context becomes radically different.

But I am certainly curious as to which Feminist figures represent the current state of thinking on the subject.

I know a lot of women who don't identify with Andrea Dworkin at all

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex-positive_feminism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third-wave_feminism

Although most "third wave" feminists support reproductive rights

I think her position on pornography is quite interesting - basically that amounts to a form of indentured slavery. Certainly when women started taking ownership of pornography - I think is not too dissimilar to that other debate on the the use of the "N" word in the black community.

That view (sex-positive.. lol?) of porn is quite.. extreme. Sex positive feminists completely overlook the choice factor made in pornography, and kowtow to retarded beliefs that porn is bad or porn is slavery. Sounds much like the conservative beliefs about being gay is a choice, or the science of god.

But aren't men the primary consumers of pornography?

[Peikko 1,575]

A person who purports to be a feminist but supports legislation that prohibits the excercise of control over their own body and therefore their ultimate destiny is contradictory.

It seems that your definition of a "feminist" is a lot narrower than others. Since some women think that abortion is wrong but still want all the other rights fought for by the woman's liberation movement I don't see how you can exclude them. They don't see abortion as a right to be sought after.

I think feminism is a very narrow view point. The premise being that women should not be constrained by their role as the biological incubator of human life.

Every important decision a woman makes is somewhat dictated by whether or not she will in fact create a new life or not. For some, the idea that a woman can have sex as a recreational activity as apposed to a means to the procreative end is totally anathema, but not to the feminist.

I am not a feminist simply because this role is too confining for my personal experience.

[IAMX 3,055]

I don't think its the sort of thing that really dates to be honest - unless of course the cultural outlook that provides the context becomes radically different.

But I am certainly curious as to which Feminist figures represent the current state of thinking on the subject.

I know a lot of women who don't identify with Andrea Dworkin at all

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex-positive_feminism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third-wave_feminism

Although most "third wave" feminists support reproductive rights

I think her position on pornography is quite interesting - basically that amounts to a form of indentured slavery. Certainly when women started taking ownership of pornography - I think is not too dissimilar to that other debate on the the use of the "N" word in the black community.

That view (sex-positive.. lol?) of porn is quite.. extreme. Sex positive feminists completely overlook the choice factor made in pornography, and kowtow to retarded beliefs that porn is bad or porn is slavery. Sounds much like the conservative beliefs about being gay is a choice, or the science of god.

But aren't men the primary consumers of pornography?

If all you're looking at are men watching porn, yes.

There is a slight stigma against women watching porn.

Remember, the same stigma that says men who #### every woman in sight are heroes, and the women who #### every man in sight are sluts.

If you take time to have these sort of discussions with women (if you can get them comfortable with you in the first place), you'll find out that that porn is indeed mostly accepted.

Then again, I also come from a part of the country where people tend not to hide things or stuff them in the closet.

[GaryC 7]

A person who purports to be a feminist but supports legislation that prohibits the excercise of control over their own body and therefore their ultimate destiny is contradictory.

It seems that your definition of a "feminist" is a lot narrower than others. Since some women think that abortion is wrong but still want all the other rights fought for by the woman's liberation movement I don't see how you can exclude them. They don't see abortion as a right to be sought after.

I think feminism is a very narrow view point. The premise being that women should not be constrained by their role as the biological incubator of human life.

Every important decision a woman makes is somewhat dictated by whether or not she will in fact create a new life or not. For some, the idea that a woman can have sex as a recreational activity as apposed to a means to the procreative end is totally anathema, but not to the feminist.

I am not a feminist simply because this role is too confining for my personal experience.

Then maybe feminism should expand its platform to include people like yourself and the pro-life women. It seems that with a broader base they would have better results.

[VisaJourneyLady 33]

I think her POV assumes that women do not join the porn industry of their own free will, which is paints women as timid victims. Although I'm sure there are a lot of women in the sex industry who don't want to be there are many that do and that is their choice. I would separate stripping your way through grad school with human trafficking.

Their theories were useful for opening up debate, but ultimately fail when faced with the complexity of real life. The world has moved on from the 'all sex is rape' statements that were around in 70's radical feminism.

The would task would be a lot simpler if instead of laying the focus on if women should be allowed to continue to make their own decisions about pregnancy with this continual demand that abortion be made illegal and all the ramifications that would lead to to ensuring girls and women understand their bodies and how they work. Education in family planning and availibilty of preventative measures coupled with more emphasis on making girls aware that they have more to offer themselves, their families and communities than sex and babies.

Focusing on such an emotive issue such as abortion distracts from issues that would do much more for womens equality, namely education, support for families that do not have the amazing support network that Palin does (she is not the slightest bit interested in this) and tackling wage inequalities.

[Peikko 1,575]

A person who purports to be a feminist but supports legislation that prohibits the excercise of control over their own body and therefore their ultimate destiny is contradictory.

It seems that your definition of a "feminist" is a lot narrower than others. Since some women think that abortion is wrong but still want all the other rights fought for by the woman's liberation movement I don't see how you can exclude them. They don't see abortion as a right to be sought after.

I think feminism is a very narrow view point. The premise being that women should not be constrained by their role as the biological incubator of human life.

Every important decision a woman makes is somewhat dictated by whether or not she will in fact create a new life or not. For some, the idea that a woman can have sex as a recreational activity as apposed to a means to the procreative end is totally anathema, but not to the feminist.

I am not a feminist simply because this role is too confining for my personal experience.

Then maybe feminism should expand its platform to include people like yourself and the pro-life women. It seems that with a broader base they would have better results.

I don't really believe that is necessary. Feminism is really like many other ism's, an attempt at a defining an idea but it's not really necessary to try live up to a narrow set of ideals that can never encompass the reality of actual experience. I view that as a futile excercise.

What it essentially comes down to is that I am not a believer in prohibition as a means to manipulate behaviour. It is not a successful route to take if your ultimate aim is to try to prevent or minimise certain behaviours. All prohibition does is create a framework aound which one can punish those who don't live up to whatever ideal has been set as the standard. Rather a pointless thing to do.

[IAMX 3,055]

I think her POV assumes that women do not join the porn industry of their own free will, which is paints women as timid victims. Although I'm sure there are a lot of women in the sex industry who don't want to be there are many that do and that is their choice. I would separate stripping your way through grad school with human trafficking.

Their theories were useful for opening up debate, but ultimately fail when faced with the complexity of real life. The world has moved on from the 'all sex is rape' statements that were around in 70's radical feminism.

The would task would be a lot simpler if instead of laying the focus on if women should be allowed to continue to make their own decisions about pregnancy with this continual demand that abortion be made illegal and all the ramifications that would lead to to ensuring girls and women understand their bodies and how they work. Education in family planning and availibilty of preventative measures coupled with more emphasis on making girls aware that they have more to offer themselves, their families and communities than sex and babies.

Focusing on such an emotive issue such as abortion distracts from issues that would do much more for womens equality, namely education, support for families that do not have the amazing support network that Palin does (she is not the slightest bit interested in this) and tackling wage inequalities.

Look, the entire issue with abortion and rights comes from the conservative (primarily religious, but certainly both) belief that their views have say-so of another, regardless of individual rights. Palin is a woman but not a feminist. Believe it or not there are still plenty of women who go by the conservative mantra that the woman is the stay-at-home mother and only works when the family needs it. Otherwise she stays at home and makes sure the man comes home to a good dinner and clean house. And that's fine too, if both people consent to that. However, the extremist stuff about sex or porn or prostitution and slavery is not a feminist issue. It's one of ideals. See, contending that these things aren't a choice makes them illegal, so of course if you don't like them, making it illegal certainly is one's MO.

We still haven't got past the part yet that things we don't like don't need to be illegal, as there's no constitutional basis for "freedom from being offended".

[SteveLaura 0]

Wendy Doniger, religion professor at the University of Chicago Divinity School, added on the Washington Post blog, "Her greatest hypocrisy is in her pretense that she is a woman."

Here's the full quote, if anyone is interested:

Her greatest hypocrisy is in her pretense that she is a woman. The Republican party's cynical calculation that because she has a womb and makes lots and lots of babies (and drives them to school! wow!) she speaks for the women of America, and will capture their hearts and their votes, has driven thousands of real women to take to their computers in outrage. She does not speak for women; she has no sympathy for the problems of other women, particularly working class women.

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