Why Feminists Hate Sarah Palin

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I haven't missed the point. I start with the concept that intentially ending a life is murder

so what about miscarriage? that word is closely linked with abortion, is that murder too?

Miscarriage, aka spontaneous abortion, unless induced, is not a willful act. Thus, it is not murder.

[jundp 191]

I haven't missed the point. I start with the concept that intentially ending a life is murder

so what about miscarriage? that word is closely linked with abortion, is that murder too?

miscarriage is a "spontaneous" abortion, or "involuntary" whereas the abortion being discussed here is of the voluntary nature.

One is elected by the woman and one is not. They are not the same, nor could I imagine anyone who believes abortion is wrong stating that a woman who has a miscarriage is committing murder.

[rebeccajo 14]

Murder is human definition of a certain type of death that is quantifiable only in so far as it is a death that is unlawful. At least try to start from a concept that isn't subjective.

One of the things that scares liberals about Sarah Palin is that she is a great example of how marriage and children didn't limit her life.

I consider myself a liberal. And I think if a woman wants to work, marry and have children, more power to her.

But don't try to spoon feed me that bull$hit of it being a great example of how having all these proves that a person didn't have limits on their life. We've all only got 24 hours in a day to expend on whatever we care to expend it on. If you want to work all the time, then your yard isn't going to get mowed and your spouse and kids are gonna go to the awards ceremony without you. Or if you stay home to raise the little darlings, then you aren't likely to achieve fame and fortune.

If you REALLY think you can have both, you are spinning cotton candy in your head. There's a reason that private residential schools, nannies and governesses exist. And it isn't just because parents could afford them. It's because parents made choices about priorities and realized that kids couldn't sustain themselves while mom or dad was off saving the world.

I'm not buying that getting pregnant before marriage and marrying limits your life, and that i the BS I was confronting when I answered that.

I had it all. Still do. No cotton candy involved.

I think there's a boatload of statistics out there about teenage pregnancy and how it affects the lives of young girls. And I'm pretty certain they don't indicate how it helps a young woman get her life successfully off the ground.

I'm also pretty certain that there's a movement in America of mature women who've come to the conclusion they can't happily, successfully and healthily be WonderWoman. Or maybe I should say they've discovered that the cost just isn't worth it.

So perhaps the definition of 'having it all' is in the eye of the beholder.

[rocks 494]

that is very true.

i still don't agree that aborting a foetus directly equals murder though

[Sofiyya 1,687]

that is very true.

i still don't agree that aborting a foetus directly equals murder though

Can you abort a healthy fetus without killing it?

[Peikko 1,575]

Murder is human definition of a certain type of death that is quantifiable only in so far as it is a death that is unlawful. At least try to start from a concept that isn't subjective.

When you start from the premise that the law allows murder, as you have, ou are starting from a subjective position. If you start from te premise that killing a defenseless being is murder, then you can acknowlesdge that the subjective law can expand or mitigate the outcome of that act.

One of the things that scares liberals about Sarah Palin is that she is a great example of how marriage and children didn't limit her life.

I consider myself a liberal. And I think if a woman wants to work, marry and have children, more power to her.

But don't try to spoon feed me that bull$hit of it being a great example of how having all these proves that a person didn't have limits on their life. We've all only got 24 hours in a day to expend on whatever we care to expend it on. If you want to work all the time, then your yard isn't going to get mowed and your spouse and kids are gonna go to the awards ceremony without you. Or if you stay home to raise the little darlings, then you aren't likely to achieve fame and fortune.

If you REALLY think you can have both, you are spinning cotton candy in your head. There's a reason that private residential schools, nannies and governesses exist. And it isn't just because parents could afford them. It's because parents made choices about priorities and realized that kids couldn't sustain themselves while mom or dad was off saving the world.

I'm not buying that getting pregnant before marriage and marrying limits your life, and that i the BS I was confronting when I answered that.

I had it all. Still do. No cotton candy involved.

Wrong, again. I am starting from the premise that killing is the non subjective definition of taking life. Murder is a very human concept which surprise suprise we do not apply to the animal kingdom. Lions do not murder antelope, humans do not murder lions. I don't know if you are trying to deliberatly obfuscate or you really can't understand the difference. Either way, it doesn't change the fact that to murder is to give the death of another human a legal parameter. Killing is the verb for taking away life.

Just for clarity, would you tell a family of siamese twins that went for seperation knowing that one twin would necessarily die to save the other that they had murdered one of their children?

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I think there's a boatload of statistics out there about teenage pregnancy and how it affects the lives of young girls. And I'm pretty certain they don't indicate how it helps a young woman get her life successfully off the ground.

There are lies, damned lies, and statistics. The results you want depend on the stats you use. Most teen pregnancies are caused by older men. The majority of children are born out of wedlock in the US today. This is not the same as marrying during pregnancy and/or staying happily married to the same spouse, as Sarah Palin has done, God bless her.

[rocks 494]

i dont personally think that killing and murder are the same thing

[Peikko 1,575]

i dont personally think that killing and murder are the same thing

They aren't. Murder is a subjective definition of killing with an implicit negative toward the person who performs or is responsible for the death.

[Peikko 1,575]

You really do believe all the anti-liberal rhetoric don't you? It's not all true, we don't think collectively, despite the fact that the term liberal has been successfully fused into 'communists' in the minds of many on the extreme right wing.

Someone who doesn't think like you do is not necessarily liberal and certainly doesn't have a set of boxes that they tick. "Palin, tick the hate box, check". Really, I find this way of difining the world most bizarre and very myopic.

Let's reword that to make a point:

You really do believe all the anti-religious rhetoric don't you? It's not all true, we don't think collectively, despite the fact that the term religious fundamentalism has been successfully fused into 'oppressive' in the minds of many on the extreme left wing.

Someone who doesn't think like you do is not necessarily religious and certainly doesn't have a set of boxes that they tick. "Palin, tick the love box, check". Really, I find this way of difining the world most bizarre and very myopic.

Do you see how you do the same thing to me that you claim I do to you?

No. I treat you as one person, with your own particular set of ideas, thoughts and emotions. You will not find one post that starts with 'conservatives think/believe do' or even 'religious fundamentalists think/believe do'. Your posts are littered with 'liberals think this...liberals believe that'.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Wrong, again. I am starting from the premise that killing is the non subjective definition of taking life. Murder is a very human concept which surprise suprise we do not apply to the animal kingdom. Lions do not murder antelope, humans do not murder lions. I don't know if you are trying to deliberatly obfuscate or you really can't understand the difference. Either way, it doesn't change the fact that to murder is to give the death of another human a legal parameter. Killing is the verb for taking away life.

Just for clarity, would you tell a family of siamese twins that went for seperation knowing that one twin would necessarily die to save the other that they had murdered one of their children?

Murder is a human act, and not an animal act, because we have choice and intellect to trump instinct. That distinction is significant and has nothing to do with animals. That doesn't make murder subjective; laws do that. Murder is murder, the law acts as a means of administering the consequences. Its analygous to saying if a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound? Murder would be murder with or without law. Law serves as a means to excuse it, mitigate it or prosecute it. That's all.

I'm not sure why not agreeing with you is obfuscating or misunderstanding. Since you have insisted on being condescending, I will give you a taste of the same. You are no legal scholar, nor a moral ethicist. Your word is not law, and your lack of belief in a faith forces you to depend on man's law, requiring you to deny that abortion is murder because, as you have said, the fetus is not a life to you, so you will cotinue to resist the reality that forcably ending a pregnancy is murder. This is a fact with or without the law allowing it or not.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

i dont personally think that killing and murder are the same thing

Is intentally killing a baby in the womb not murder? If not murder, what is it?

[rocks 494]

ugh well, semantics.. isn't a baby something that's been born already?

[Sofiyya 1,687]

You really do believe all the anti-liberal rhetoric don't you? It's not all true, we don't think collectively, despite the fact that the term liberal has been successfully fused into 'communists' in the minds of many on the extreme right wing.

Someone who doesn't think like you do is not necessarily liberal and certainly doesn't have a set of boxes that they tick. "Palin, tick the hate box, check". Really, I find this way of difining the world most bizarre and very myopic.

Let's reword that to make a point:

You really do believe all the anti-religious rhetoric don't you? It's not all true, we don't think collectively, despite the fact that the term religious fundamentalism has been successfully fused into 'oppressive' in the minds of many on the extreme left wing.

Someone who doesn't think like you do is not necessarily religious and certainly doesn't have a set of boxes that they tick. "Palin, tick the love box, check". Really, I find this way of difining the world most bizarre and very myopic.

Do you see how you do the same thing to me that you claim I do to you?

No. I treat you as one person, with your own particular set of ideas, thoughts and emotions. You will not find one post that starts with 'conservatives think/believe do' or even 'religious fundamentalists think/believe do'. Your posts are littered with 'liberals think this...liberals believe that'.

More symptoms of denial. You have "smeared" me as a religious fundamentalist, a term upom which you apply many assumptions that have nothing to do with me as an individual. If you deny that, I can show you where you have done so on this thread.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

ugh well, semantics.. isn't a baby something that's been born already?

What is the "thing" in the womb as its mother is in labor to give it birth? Is it not a baby then? The problem with refusing to admit that abortion is murder is that you have to accept nonsensical arguments that deem the child a non-entity in order to deny it rights or even humanity. When you can accept the idea that it has no rights or humanity, then you can justify killing it and avoid calling the killing murder. Throughout human history, that was done with slaves and, ironically, with women. Now, women can do that with babies. No, it's not just semantics. It's denial.

Edited September 16, 2008 by Virtual wife