The Foreign Policy Difference

[one...two...tree 2,762]

(this is interesting....sorry Gary, I hope you will answer my question, but I thought this is worth sharing)

Elitism is the belief or attitude that those individuals who are considered members of the elite — a select group of people with outstanding personal abilities, intellect, wealth, specialized training or experience, or other distinctive attributes — are those whose views on a matter are to be taken the most seriously or carry the most weight; whose views and/or actions are most likely to be constructive to society as a whole; or whose extraordinary skills, abilities or wisdom render them especially fit to govern.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elitist

.....now look here:

Opposed to elitism are "anti-elitism," "populism," and the political theory of pluralism.

.....and here:

Populism is a discourse which supports "the people" versus "the elites". Populism may involve either a political philosophy urging social and political system changes and/or a rhetorical style, deployed by members of political or social movements competing for advantage within the existing party system.

.....and here:

...contemporary populists rarely call themselves 'populists' and usually reject the term when it is applied to them by others ^[2]. Exceptions to this pattern of pejorative usage exist (for example in the United States), but it is debated whether this is due to the memories and traditions of earlier democratic movements (e.g. farmers' movements, New Deal reform movements, and the civil rights movement) that were often called and called themselves populist or whether this is because of linguistic confusions of populism with terms such as "popular".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Populism

.........

If anything, the labeling of Obama as an elitist is an attempt to show that he is in fact NOT a an elitist. His candidacy certainly fits the populist label if labels shall be used to describe each candidate's style. McCain on the other hand most closely fits the elitist label. However, labels really don't say a whole lot about the candidates themselves or what they really represent.

Edited September 10, 2008 by Jabberwocky

[kaydee457 13]

Hmm, fuzzy logic?

If anything, the labeling of Obama as an elitist is an attempt to show that he is in fact NOT a an elitist. His candidacy certainly fits the populist label if labels shall be used to describe each candidate's style. McCain on the other hand most closely fits the elitist label. However, labels really don't say a whole lot about the candidates themselves or what they really represent.

Clearly......

[GaryC 7]

Gary, can you answer in your own words, what is a liberal elitist? And if they exist, wouldn't that mean there are conservative elitists? Can you define what a conservative elitist is? How or when did Barack Obama become an elitist? In college? When he ran for office in Chicago?

To me, it's just another buzz word used by many on the Right to evoke an emotional response, but has no real substance to it.

Someone that says this:

And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

Ring a bell?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Fear, folks, fear. Bush's team is now in charge of McSame's campaign and they'll try to ride the same wave of fear back into the White House as they did in 2004. I just trashed a campaign mailer from McSame that I found in my mailbox yesterday - how dare they send me this stinking garbage - which had not McSame or Palin on the front page but their dear friends BinLaden, Ahmadinedshad, Kim Jong Il and some other characters I guess I was supposed to be afraid of. McSame is hoping that, much like his idol George W, these scaretactics will open him the gates to 1600 Penn Ave.

Same old stuff different name, that's why I call him McSame.

[IAMX 3,055]

Gary, can you answer in your own words, what is a liberal elitist? And if they exist, wouldn't that mean there are conservative elitists? Can you define what a conservative elitist is? How or when did Barack Obama become an elitist? In college? When he ran for office in Chicago?

To me, it's just another buzz word used by many on the Right to evoke an emotional response, but has no real substance to it.

Someone that says this:

And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

Ring a bell?

Uh, that's not being an elitist. That's being honest. Rural people that went Bush's way aren't very bright in general and perpetuate that stereotype pretty often. The only problem with that is he needs to turn around and pander to them for a vote. That's gonna be the funny part. Good thing I'm not a politician. I don't need to be politically correct.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Gary, can you answer in your own words, what is a liberal elitist? And if they exist, wouldn't that mean there are conservative elitists? Can you define what a conservative elitist is? How or when did Barack Obama become an elitist? In college? When he ran for office in Chicago?

To me, it's just another buzz word used by many on the Right to evoke an emotional response, but has no real substance to it.

Someone that says this:

And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

Ring a bell?

That's being taken out of context for one. Obama explained what he was saying and it wasn't elitism. He wasn't saying, "I'm better than these people"....he was attempting to define how their political views are shaped.

....

Obama's remarks at a San Francisco fundraiser Sunday, and they include an attempt to explain the resentment in small-town Pennsylvania that won't be appreciated by some of the people whose votes Obama's seeking:

You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not.

And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0408/Obama_on_smalltown_PA_Clinging_religion_guns_xenophobia.html

.....

If you look at Obama's theme of change....that's a populist view. Now I know why the Republicans don't want to define him as a populist because that would imply that what he's campaigning for and the ideas he expresses actually resonate with the American people.

[panamania79 2]

"Liberal elite": A term created to confuse people like Gary into believing the Republican Party is the party of the working class.

That is how Mitt Romney can stand up at the RNC and admonish the "East Coast elites" while he himself was governor of a wealthy East Coast state and son of a wealthy East Coast elite family. He did this with a straight face, too.

This is how entrenched Washington conservatives can claim they will throw out the old guard...apparently by electing the old guard for four more years.

They know you will swallow the lies without critical thinking, so they've become bold about spreading them. Every time the phrase "liberal elite" is used, and every time you buy it, you've failed to use your brain. Do not pass go.

Also, I might enjoy arguing some of these points, but if you look closely, you'll see this is the work of an unclear writer and sloppy thinker. It's difficult to tell just what it is he's saying half the time.

[Cassie 8]

Let me know when we start talking about the candidates' platforms on foreign policy kkthnx.

[GaryC 7]

Gary, can you answer in your own words, what is a liberal elitist? And if they exist, wouldn't that mean there are conservative elitists? Can you define what a conservative elitist is? How or when did Barack Obama become an elitist? In college? When he ran for office in Chicago?

To me, it's just another buzz word used by many on the Right to evoke an emotional response, but has no real substance to it.

Someone that says this:

And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

Ring a bell?

That's being taken out of context for one. Obama explained what he was saying and it wasn't elitism. He wasn't saying, "I'm better than these people"....he was attempting to define how their political views are shaped.

....

Obama's remarks at a San Francisco fundraiser Sunday, and they include an attempt to explain the resentment in small-town Pennsylvania that won't be appreciated by some of the people whose votes Obama's seeking:

You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not.

And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0408/Obama_on_smalltown_PA_Clinging_religion_guns_xenophobia.html

.....

If you look at Obama's theme of change....that's a populist view. Now I know why the Republicans don't want to define him as a populist because that would imply that what he's campaigning for and the ideas he expresses actually resonate with the American people.

Dance, Dance, dance. It shows how out of touch he is with middle America. That is an elitist.

ETA

A populist is someone that sticks his wet finger in the air to see which way the wind is blowing. It shows a lack of core values. In that manner Obama is a populist.

Edited September 10, 2008 by GaryC

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Gary, can you answer in your own words, what is a liberal elitist? And if they exist, wouldn't that mean there are conservative elitists? Can you define what a conservative elitist is? How or when did Barack Obama become an elitist? In college? When he ran for office in Chicago?

To me, it's just another buzz word used by many on the Right to evoke an emotional response, but has no real substance to it.

Someone that says this:

And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

Ring a bell?

That's being taken out of context for one. Obama explained what he was saying and it wasn't elitism. He wasn't saying, "I'm better than these people"....he was attempting to define how their political views are shaped.

....

Obama's remarks at a San Francisco fundraiser Sunday, and they include an attempt to explain the resentment in small-town Pennsylvania that won't be appreciated by some of the people whose votes Obama's seeking:

You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not.

And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0408/Obama_on_smalltown_PA_Clinging_religion_guns_xenophobia.html

.....

If you look at Obama's theme of change....that's a populist view. Now I know why the Republicans don't want to define him as a populist because that would imply that what he's campaigning for and the ideas he expresses actually resonate with the American people.

Dance, Dance, dance. It shows how out of touch he is with middle America. That is an elitist.

Come on, Gary. I articulated my response. At least show me the same in return.

[GaryC 7]

Gary, can you answer in your own words, what is a liberal elitist? And if they exist, wouldn't that mean there are conservative elitists? Can you define what a conservative elitist is? How or when did Barack Obama become an elitist? In college? When he ran for office in Chicago?

To me, it's just another buzz word used by many on the Right to evoke an emotional response, but has no real substance to it.

Someone that says this:

And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

Ring a bell?

That's being taken out of context for one. Obama explained what he was saying and it wasn't elitism. He wasn't saying, "I'm better than these people"....he was attempting to define how their political views are shaped.

....

Obama's remarks at a San Francisco fundraiser Sunday, and they include an attempt to explain the resentment in small-town Pennsylvania that won't be appreciated by some of the people whose votes Obama's seeking:

You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not.

And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0408/Obama_on_smalltown_PA_Clinging_religion_guns_xenophobia.html

.....

If you look at Obama's theme of change....that's a populist view. Now I know why the Republicans don't want to define him as a populist because that would imply that what he's campaigning for and the ideas he expresses actually resonate with the American people.

Dance, Dance, dance. It shows how out of touch he is with middle America. That is an elitist.

Come on, Gary. I articulated my response. At least show me the same in return.

That is my answer. Obama is totaly out of touch with middle America. This is his opinion of a majority of America. We are all just a bunch of dumb hicks with our guns and religion. That is the impression I have of him, that is what makes him an elitist and that is why I don't like him. He does not speak for me.

[Cassie 8]

Gary, can you answer in your own words, what is a liberal elitist? And if they exist, wouldn't that mean there are conservative elitists? Can you define what a conservative elitist is? How or when did Barack Obama become an elitist? In college? When he ran for office in Chicago?

To me, it's just another buzz word used by many on the Right to evoke an emotional response, but has no real substance to it.

Someone that says this:

And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

Ring a bell?

That's being taken out of context for one. Obama explained what he was saying and it wasn't elitism. He wasn't saying, "I'm better than these people"....he was attempting to define how their political views are shaped.

....

Obama's remarks at a San Francisco fundraiser Sunday, and they include an attempt to explain the resentment in small-town Pennsylvania that won't be appreciated by some of the people whose votes Obama's seeking:

You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not.

And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0408/Obama_on_smalltown_PA_Clinging_religion_guns_xenophobia.html

.....

If you look at Obama's theme of change....that's a populist view. Now I know why the Republicans don't want to define him as a populist because that would imply that what he's campaigning for and the ideas he expresses actually resonate with the American people.

Dance, Dance, dance. It shows how out of touch he is with middle America. That is an elitist.

Come on, Gary. I articulated my response. At least show me the same in return.

That is my answer. Obama is totaly out of touch with middle America. This is his opinion of a majority of America. We are all just a bunch of dumb hicks with our guns and religion. That is the impression I have of him, that is what makes him an elitist and that is why I don't like him. He does not speak for me.

great. we've got that settled. Now let's talk specifics of foreign policy proposals.

[IAMX 3,055]

That is my answer. Obama is totaly out of touch with middle America. This is his opinion of a majority of America. We are all just a bunch of dumb hicks with our guns and religion.

He's perfectly right. Explain how they don't cling to guns and religion.

Keep in mind we also have rural areas in California who think the same way. California doesn't have 53 Democrats in the U.S. House. I've seen the same ###-backwards logic from people here as well.

Edited September 10, 2008 by SRVT

[GaryC 7]

great. we've got that settled. Now let's talk specifics of foreign policy proposals.

Ok. Tell me, who do you think has more experience dealing with other nations? McCain or Obama?

[IAMX 3,055]

great. we've got that settled. Now let's talk specifics of foreign policy proposals.

Ok. Tell me, who do you think has more experience dealing with other nations? McCain or Obama?

Robert Byrd. 49 year Senator.