Preparing evidence of home ties early...

[rebeccajo 14]

All i can say is: there is a thin line between wanting to inform and wanting to influence others...

I choose informing and not make this process harder for others than already is.

And that is relevant to this discussion how?

That's exactly what I ask myself when I see your way to "help" others, it is not relevant nor helpful on anybody's case if you are going to reprimand them instead of guiding them. Treat them as adults and just INFORM them, don't lecture them like 5 year olds.

GueraYTavo -

I've been watching Richard's case for some time now. I've seen the evolution of his questions. I've seen the responses to them also.

I'm not 'judging'. What I am is tenacious though.

You know, if Richard's wife had gone to visit him in the UK, and his father had fallen ill and passed away and died, she wouldn't have had the option of marrying him and staying on to comfort him. The UK won't allow foreign born persons to marry a UK citizen without a fiance visa first.

I understand that Richard and his wife have suffered a great loss. But I'm not convinced that had his wife's father survived, the result would have been any different. And I've only come to those conclusions by virtue of Richard's own words. Nothing more and nothing less.

Heck, it's very doubtful the US would ever dissolve the visa waiver privileges granted to citizens of the UK. They've been an ally nation with us for decades. But my point is this and this only - our government has certain avenues to allow for the immigration of foreign born persons to our shores. It offers many, many concessions to those aliens when they happen to marry or wish to marry a US citizen. Why would people wish to 'short circuit' a system that is not all the difficult to navigate? Can't stand to be apart? Miss each other? Want to comfort each other? As I've stated previously, there are many an international couple who are separated during births of children; deaths of family members; illnesses; even great domestic turmoil and political upheaval. And many if not most of them have no visa waiver program to use as way to somehow get through it all until they are reunited permanently.

The visa waiver program is a GREAT advantage to couples who have it available to them. Short-circuiting it in the name of love is wrong. I believe that and I stand by it.

Kezzie was mentioned earlier. When she arrived on the VWP to recuperate from an illness by visiting old family friends, she was reunited with a member of that family. While she was here, he told her he had always loved her. Kezzie abandoned her plans to return to her job and grown children in Scotland. She married that man who had waited years for her, hoping one day he'd have his chance. And by all that is good and right, together they took that chance, and lived and loved happily for a little over three years until a tumor in her brain snuffed out that bright love. In their case - thank goodness for the ability to come to America, get married and stay.

So don't sing to me of judging my fellow man. It's not something I do. I am however a student of human nature. And I've lived long enough to learn that there is always something round the corner - something that equalizes things - something beyond our control.

Edited September 10, 2008 by rebeccajo

[Beantownbabe 1]

Bakofoil - I agree...Rebeccajo was WAY more elequent than I could hope to be! It seems my 16month old has my brain a little fuzzy!!! Good luck all!

[Hydey 0]

I understand that Richard and his wife have suffered a great loss. But I'm not convinced that had his wife's father survived, the result would have been any different. And I've only come to those conclusions by virtue of Richard's own words. Nothing more and nothing less.

Whether the result would have been any different or not, i never had intent to marry or any intent to immigrant when i entered the country. End of story.

[bakofoil 27]

Bakofoil - I agree...Rebeccajo was WAY more elequent than I could hope to be! It seems my 16month old has my brain a little fuzzy!!! Good luck all!

I didn't mean way more than you either. I have no baby, so I have no excuse. I'm sorry if I came off the wrong way

[bluegreen 0]

Richard, you asked about proving your intent t o return to the UK. There are quite a few threads about this, if you do a search. I can't get the feature to work right now, but I have a long thread about it, as do several others. Obviously, you should be prepared should the question arise, even though it rarely seems to. It was not asked at my interview. But I had a LOT. I also had many more ties to home than you do-mortgage, cell phone, contracts lined up (but no steady job), health insurance, etc. I included several affidavits from family and friends stating that I was expected to return. I actually even printed stuff off my facebook "wall"—"have fun! See you in a few months!" messages, that kind of thing. Probably not super official, but I just brought everything I could possibly think of. I also then prepared a separate section with all my evidence of a bonafide marriage. So two huge files.

I wish people would take their arguments and holier-than-thou attitudes to a separate discussion. You HAVE had a LOT of questions, and it would be great if you could utilize the search feature a bit more, but basically I see that you are using this site as a resource for completing your AOS application, like everyone else, so I don't really see where the controversy lies. You have chosen your immigration route, are following it, and asking the community a simple question.

I said this i a pervious thread, but we should all remember there is no "VWP route". We are talking about adjusting status from a non-immigrant visa, and has nothing to do with the VWP. That is just one status from which you may chose to adjust, should your situation allow it. The only determining factor is "Did you enter with the intent to immigrate". Not "Do you believe this is morally correct or do you have a sad story or special circumstances". I didn't have a sick relative, problem with my living situation in Canada or any other reason why I should stay in the US or return home. I simply decided to get married and stay, and thus was eligible to immigrate in this way. I can see how this is frustrating for people who were not able to have their process progress so quickly, but that is simply the way the system is built and I feel no responsibility whatsoever to choose my LEGAL path based on anything but the bare facts of the options available to me.

Okay now I am doing what I said I hate others doing, so I'll stop! Good luck with gathering your evidence, Rich.

Edited September 11, 2008 by bluegreen

[bakofoil 27]

I said this i a pervious thread, but we should all remember there is no "VWP route". We are talking about adjusting status from a non-immigrant visa, and has nothing to do with the VWP. That is just one status from which you may chose to adjust, should your situation allow it. The only determining factor is "Did you enter with the intent to immigrate". Not "Do you believe this is morally correct or do you have a sad story or special circumstances". I didn't have a sick relative, problem with my living situation in Canada or any other reason why I should stay in the US or return home. I simply decided to get married and stay, and thus was eligible to immigrate in this way. I can see how this is frustrating for people who were not able to have their process progress so quickly, but that is simply the way the system is built and I feel no responsibility whatsoever to choose my LEGAL path based on anything but the bare facts of the options available to me.

Okay now I am doing what I said I hate others doing, so I'll stop! Good luck with gathering your evidence, Rich.

You know, I wish I had just made things so much clearer, right from the start...so here goes;

Richard is here, under whatever circumstances, and needs to stay. I think it is BAD advice for anyone to tell him the intent issue is not important. He needs to be prepared for that - however much we speculate about where and when the intent issue is resolved. However much anecdotal evidence suggests intent is not generally asked about.

You have given good advice on how to prepare for the event that it is asked about.

There is no gripe from me that you or anyone else adjusted from the VWP. I merely objected to the suggestion that adjustment from the VWP is no more complex than adjusting from a visa. This may well be in many cases, but SOME people are denied and receive deportation orders and as far as I know you waive your right to appealing this decision.

I really wouldn't like to think that the message Richard and others, who had contemplated K1 at some point, take away from this thread is that there is absolutely nothing to worry about. If that were the case, nobody would go the K1 route. That's my point. No judgement there whatsoever.

[bluegreen 0]

I said this i a pervious thread, but we should all remember there is no "VWP route". We are talking about adjusting status from a non-immigrant visa, and has nothing to do with the VWP. That is just one status from which you may chose to adjust, should your situation allow it. The only determining factor is "Did you enter with the intent to immigrate". Not "Do you believe this is morally correct or do you have a sad story or special circumstances". I didn't have a sick relative, problem with my living situation in Canada or any other reason why I should stay in the US or return home. I simply decided to get married and stay, and thus was eligible to immigrate in this way. I can see how this is frustrating for people who were not able to have their process progress so quickly, but that is simply the way the system is built and I feel no responsibility whatsoever to choose my LEGAL path based on anything but the bare facts of the options available to me.

Okay now I am doing what I said I hate others doing, so I'll stop! Good luck with gathering your evidence, Rich.

You know, I wish I had just made things so much clearer, right from the start...so here goes;

Richard is here, under whatever circumstances, and needs to stay. I think it is BAD advice for anyone to tell him the intent issue is not important. He needs to be prepared for that - however much we speculate about where and when the intent issue is resolved. However much anecdotal evidence suggests intent is not generally asked about.

You have given good advice on how to prepare for the event that it is asked about.

There is no gripe from me that you or anyone else adjusted from the VWP. I merely objected to the suggestion that adjustment from the VWP is no more complex than adjusting from a visa. This may well be in many cases, but SOME people are denied and receive deportation orders and as far as I know you waive your right to appealing this decision.

I really wouldn't like to think that the message Richard and others, who had contemplated K1 at some point, take away from this thread is that there is absolutely nothing to worry about. If that were the case, nobody would go the K1 route. That's my point. No judgement there whatsoever.

I actually totally agree wih you. One hundred percent. My frustration was not directed at you or any one in particular-just the general tone that these threads seems to take on after a simple question from the OP. I just felt like the discussion devolved in an irrelevant and somewhat judgemental direction after that. rich seems pretty well aware that "his balls are on the table" (his words).I think there is value in the discussion and debate about the prper use of this method of adjusting status, I just feel like it should be a separate discussion. I was so happy when this new subforum was developed, becasue it often felt like questions posed in the main AOS forum on this subject always degenterated into moral debate. This felt like a really safe, understanding place to ask simple questions regarding process.

I understood and agreed with your message though! It is SO important to be prepared for every possible question at these interviews

[bakofoil 27]

Agreed

[Hydey 0]

I said this i a pervious thread, but we should all remember there is no "VWP route". We are talking about adjusting status from a non-immigrant visa, and has nothing to do with the VWP. That is just one status from which you may chose to adjust, should your situation allow it. The only determining factor is "Did you enter with the intent to immigrate". Not "Do you believe this is morally correct or do you have a sad story or special circumstances". I didn't have a sick relative, problem with my living situation in Canada or any other reason why I should stay in the US or return home. I simply decided to get married and stay, and thus was eligible to immigrate in this way. I can see how this is frustrating for people who were not able to have their process progress so quickly, but that is simply the way the system is built and I feel no responsibility whatsoever to choose my LEGAL path based on anything but the bare facts of the options available to me.

Okay now I am doing what I said I hate others doing, so I'll stop! Good luck with gathering your evidence, Rich.

You know, I wish I had just made things so much clearer, right from the start...so here goes;

Richard is here, under whatever circumstances, and needs to stay. I think it is BAD advice for anyone to tell him the intent issue is not important. He needs to be prepared for that - however much we speculate about where and when the intent issue is resolved. However much anecdotal evidence suggests intent is not generally asked about.

You have given good advice on how to prepare for the event that it is asked about.

There is no gripe from me that you or anyone else adjusted from the VWP. I merely objected to the suggestion that adjustment from the VWP is no more complex than adjusting from a visa. This may well be in many cases, but SOME people are denied and receive deportation orders and as far as I know you waive your right to appealing this decision.

I really wouldn't like to think that the message Richard and others, who had contemplated K1 at some point, take away from this thread is that there is absolutely nothing to worry about. If that were the case, nobody would go the K1 route. That's my point. No judgement there whatsoever.

I actually totally agree wih you. One hundred percent. My frustration was not directed at you or any one in particular-just the general tone that these threads seems to take on after a simple question from the OP. I just felt like the discussion devolved in an irrelevant and somewhat judgemental direction after that. rich seems pretty well aware that "his balls are on the table" (his words).I think there is value in the discussion and debate about the prper use of this method of adjusting status, I just feel like it should be a separate discussion. I was so happy when this new subforum was developed, becasue it often felt like questions posed in the main AOS forum on this subject always degenterated into moral debate. This felt like a really safe, understanding place to ask simple questions regarding process.

I understood and agreed with your message though! It is SO important to be prepared for every possible question at these interviews

Thanks for the unbiased responses bluegreen. I was trying to ask a question about completing my AOS application and preparing early for my interview, this is what i figure is the best thing to do. I am not here to bleed my circumstances out to everybody, had my father-in-law (God bless him) lived, we very well might be going the same route, but i never had any intent of this at the border, and wanted to get as much evidence as i can to prove this should it be questioned at my interview. I felt insulted and bullied when rebeccajo posted, not to disrespect her but it seemed as if she was going off-topic, when instead of trying to help me was bringing up old posts accusing me of what i thought was visa fraud! Not nice at all, and i felt the need to defend myself as i didn't want others views of my situation swaying. As anyone who has adjusted from the VWP will know, (or if you haven't i'm sure you can imagine) sleepness lights occur frequently when you are well aware you're balls are on the table for the USCIS to chop, yes mine are, but i've chosen this path and am going with it. My wife and I are truely in love and have nothing to hide, i just hope and pray that this pulls through for us.

-Richard

[rebeccajo 14]

Richard -

Just to clarify a point.

At no point did I accuse you of 'visa fraud'. IMO visa fraud is misusing the affections of a USC to gain admission to the US. It is also lying during a visa interview. You have done neither.

I have questioned whether you have abused the VWP. IMO this is very different than visa fraud.

I'm sorry if you or any readers to this thread feel you have been picked on. But the fact of the matter is that many people read this board for information without ever posting a question. The discussion we've had here brings out several salient points to anyone who is researching coming to America.

bakofil or someone mentioned above that nearly everyone from the UK has considered abusing the VWP to reunite with their SO. I'm not above admitting that my husband and I considered it. At the end of the day we just decided to file for the visa. London isn't a hard consulate to pass through and we knew the likelihood of denial was slim to none. It caused us some separation, but not much. Vermont was very fast at that time.

Edited September 11, 2008 by rebeccajo

[bluegreen 0]

Richard -

Just to clarify a point.

At no point did I accuse you of 'visa fraud'. IMO visa fraud is misusing the affections of a USC to gain admission to the US. It is also lying during a visa interview. You have done neither.

I have questioned whether you have abused the VWP. IMO this is very different than visa fraud.

I'm sorry if you or any readers to this thread feel you have been picked on. But the fact of the matter is that many people read this board for information without ever posting a question. The discussion we've had here brings out several salient points to anyone who is researching coming to America.

bakofil or someone mentioned above that nearly everyone from the UK has considered abusing the VWP to reunite with their SO. I'm not above admitting that my husband and I considered it. At the end of the day we just decided to file for the visa. London isn't a hard consulate to pass through and we knew the likelihood of denial was slim to none. It caused us some separation, but not much. Vermont was very fast at that time.

What would make this resource more useful to me (speaking only for myself), id for members to answer the questions posed by the OP, if they are so inclined.There is nothing more irritating than searching for an answer to a particular question, only to have to wade through pages and pages of pedantic debate (albeit interesting) to find the answer you are looking for. Why do you think the same questions get aked over and over again? Similarly, there is nothing worse than posing a simple question to the wise members of VJ and feeling worried that your motives and intentions will be questioned. I do think discussion and debate is interesting and often helpful, I don't even mind slight deviation and tangents-I am equally guilty of that. But there seemed very little actual effort to respond to the original query here. Why not start your own discussion on the abuse of the VWP if you feel it would be useful to the VJ community? It probably would-you make many salient and informed points. But a more generalized discussion that does not focus on the circumstances of one particular individual who did not solicit your opinion on his circumstnances (save his one, innocuous question) might be more appropriate and helpful for everyone, particularly in this subforum.

/end rant. Sorry:)

[cdn_in_wa 1]

What would make this resource more useful to me (speaking only for myself), id for members to answer the questions posed by the OP, if they are so inclined.There is nothing more irritating than searching for an answer to a particular question, only to have to wade through pages and pages of pedantic debate (albeit interesting) to find the answer you are looking for. Why do you think the same questions get aked over and over again? Similarly, there is nothing worse than posing a simple question to the wise members of VJ and feeling worried that your motives and intentions will be questioned. I do think discussion and debate is interesting and often helpful, I don't even mind slight deviation and tangents-I am equally guilty of that. But there seemed very little actual effort to respond to the original query here. Why not start your own discussion on the abuse of the VWP if you feel it would be useful to the VJ community? It probably would-you make many salient and informed points. But a more generalized discussion that does not focus on the circumstances of one particular individual who did not solicit your opinion on his circumstnances (save his one, innocuous question) might be more appropriate and helpful for everyone, particularly in this subforum.

/end rant. Sorry:)

Ya know, I have to agree with bluegreen here.

The only reason I finally (after many months of unregistered lurking) registered an account and started posting was because of responses to a post I saw on this site. The question had been posted in the wrong forum, clearly, and those posters responding did not understand the concurrent I-130/I-485 process and appeared (to me) to be scaring this OP into thinking what they had done was wrong.

I've read many threads where people refer to doing things the *right* or *legal* way, as if the concurrent I-130/I-485 process is somehow wrong or illegal. It's just a different process, not wrong or illegal.

I would not post about my specific AOS situation because of this type of response. Things happen, life changing events occur, people make decisions, change their minds, change them back. None of us can be inside anyone else's head to be sure what has happened. This is an internet discussion board after all - you don't even know if people are who they represent themselves to be at all.

I appreciate, as do others - including Richard - I'm sure, that there is a distinct possibility that questions of intent could well be raised at interview and anyone applying on the concurrent I-130/I-485 basis should be prepared to defend that. It is helpful to note that some others who have used this process have not had to strenuously defend their position at interview. Nothing that anyone has said in that regard has made me think that *I* might not have to defend my own intent.

This thread is the type that makes others afraid to post their own situation for fear of the same *help*.

[rebeccajo 14]

Back before VJ got so big, we'd get into these discussions within threads without feeling the need to start another one. It was rather like the ebb and flow of conversation. I prefer to gain my knowledge that way; while sticking strictly the question asked is useful, it's not the normal way things get worked out in real life.

I'm also pretty certain that if we did start a thread on this specific subject, you'd be just as miffed with it.

You are 100% correct in the fact that if one had no intent to immigrate at your last entry, one can legally file to adjust. Again, if you'll research my posts (you'd have to go a few months back) I offered up a scenario that happened with my now-husband and myself during his last visit to me. To make a long story short, due to an act of terrorism in his home country followed by hurricane conditions in the US, he had difficulty exiting the US (it took three attempts over a 6-day time span for him to catch a flight home). While we stood waiting in the airport for the third time, Wes said to me (and he was deadly serious) "I have tried to leave your country three times. If I cannot get on this flight today, damned be the K1 (we had filed while he was visiting), I am staying and marrying you and I will adjust from here".

I think, if I recall the thread properly, there was quite a lot of discussion about whether or not that would have been an abuse of the visa waiver. Some of the comments from other members is quite interesting in that regard.

I'm terribly sorry if you feel that posts have to be written in such a way that one feels they are 'safe' and everybody in the thread will pat them on the head and make them feel better. Life isn't like that - why should this forum be? I haven't come to my conclusions idly. I likely wouldn't feel the way I do about adjusting from within the US and abuse of the VWP if I hadn't (for four years) watched non-VWP couples go through what they have to in order to reunite.

So there you have it. Adjusting from within the US is perfectly legal and there's nothing wrong with it. There is indeed much vitriole in this community against couples who choose this option. Much of that is wrong.

But, in my opinion - if you KNOW that you are planning to move to the US one day and enter into a spousal relationship with a USC, and you choose to conveniently adjust from either a visitor visa or the VWP instead of following the route the US has asked foreign born persons to take - IMO that's abusing the system. And for about three or four other hair splitting twists of the law which would (I'm sure) bore you to tears, I think it's a stupid thing to do. It's bad enough to be a K1/K2/K3 immigrant in this country with no green card (my husband was one for 1.5 years while his adjustment protracted itself) - I sure wouldn't want to be beholding to the US government while they decided to honor my request to live here permanently AFTER I had already declared my last entry would be non-immigrant. Frankly, I just don't trust 'em.

So again - sorry if you don't like hearing the other side of the coin. There are many others who feel the same way.

Edited September 12, 2008 by rebeccajo

[bluegreen 0]

Rebeccajo, you are getting your knickers in a knot, and while I keep promising myself that I a done responding, it is difficult not to.

I am happy and interested to hear the other side of the coin. I am not in the least bored to tears by "hair splitting twists of the law". I am indeed fascinated by immigration law. Don't assume because you have spent longer on the earth than others or have been around the forum longer that you are the only one who has researched, pondered, or has an interest in these matters. Like most people who bother to read and post on VJ, I think that research and education is the key to controlling your own destiny, and I am sure you would agree. That is WHY we are all here, after all.

I certainly would not be miffed if you were to start a thread based on this discussion. I would probably jump in and argue and debate, just as you do, but I would not be miffed. What upsets me is the real or perceived singling out of a member who was looking for an answer to a question. In a different thread, that same member was looking for moral support. In both threads, you provided him with the exact opposite. It is even more irritating because you clearly have the interest and the knowledge to provide him with the answers to his questions, but you choose to 'enlighten" us with your opinions instead.

VJ is a huge community, and not the same place it probably was when you first joined. I can exactly imagine the "ebb and flow" of conversation being very effective in a smaller forum. Perhaps things need to change a little bit now that this community is so huge, in order for members to easily ask and access the questions they need, and to avoid real or perceived "singling out". And for what it is worth, I personally would never, in a real life "ebb and flow" conversation, be so confrontational to someone who was asking a simple question, so I try not to do that on the internet either. I don't expect pats on the head or unwarranted reassurance, just a little humility and empathy. Life is NOT always like that, I agree, but it IS what we all strive for.

My opinion differs wildly from yours on this issue, and that is part of life and part of what makes these things interesting. It does not mean I can't understand or appreciate your position. I am just tired of hearing about it when it has absolutely zero relevance to the question asked, and results in another member feeling harassed, intimidated and bullied. I wish you would stop.

Please don't think I am not interested in hearing your vastly knowledgeable and educated "side of the coin". I have read many of your threads, although I must admit I have had neither the time, inclination or indeed any reason thus far to "research" your posts, as you recommend. You are extremely articulate and have a LOT of knowledge to offer, but it is too bad that you seem bent on offering it with a side helping of unsolicited opinions and rather personal tirades.

[cdn_in_wa 1]

Back before VJ got so big, we'd get into these discussions within threads without feeling the need to start another one. It was rather like the ebb and flow of conversation. I prefer to gain my knowledge that way; while sticking strictly the question asked is useful, it's not the normal way things get worked out in real life.

I'm also pretty certain that if we did start a thread on this specific subject, you'd be just as miffed with it.

You are 100% correct in the fact that if one had no intent to immigrate at your last entry, one can legally file to adjust. Again, if you'll research my posts (you'd have to go a few months back) I offered up a scenario that happened with my now-husband and myself during his last visit to me. To make a long story short, due to an act of terrorism in his home country followed by hurricane conditions in the US, he had difficulty exiting the US (it took three attempts over a 6-day time span for him to catch a flight home). While we stood waiting in the airport for the third time, Wes said to me (and he was deadly serious) "I have tried to leave your country three times. If I cannot get on this flight today, damned be the K1 (we had filed while he was visiting), I am staying and marrying you and I will adjust from here".

I think, if I recall the thread properly, there was quite a lot of discussion about whether or not that would have been an abuse of the visa waiver. Some of the comments from other members is quite interesting in that regard.

I'm terribly sorry if you feel that posts have to be written in such a way that one feels they are 'safe' and everybody in the thread will pat them on the head and make them feel better. Life isn't like that - why should this forum be? I haven't come to my conclusions idly. I likely wouldn't feel the way I do about adjusting from within the US and abuse of the VWP if I hadn't (for four years) watched non-VWP couples go through what they have to in order to reunite.

So there you have it. Adjusting from within the US is perfectly legal and there's nothing wrong with it. There is indeed much vitriole in this community against couples who choose this option. Much of that is wrong.

But, in my opinion - if you KNOW that you are planning to move to the US one day and enter into a spousal relationship with a USC, and you choose to conveniently adjust from either a visitor visa or the VWP instead of following the route the US has asked foreign born persons to take - IMO that's abusing the system. And for about three or four other hair splitting twists of the law which would (I'm sure) bore you to tears, I think it's a stupid thing to do. It's bad enough to be a K1/K2/K3 immigrant in this country with no green card (my husband was one for 1.5 years while his adjustment protracted itself) - I sure wouldn't want to be beholding to the US government while they decided to honor my request to live here permanently AFTER I had already declared my last entry would be non-immigrant. Frankly, I just don't trust 'em.

So again - sorry if you don't like hearing the other side of the coin. There are many others who feel the same way.

Other side of the coin? Where?

Your posts have been nothing but denigrating and condescending. Your attitude leaves much to be desired. (charming note about your timeline btw - shows your true colours)

Your personal history and the choices you made are yours to embrace, not mine. I won't be bothered to read your old posts. It matters not to me whether you've posted here for 4 years or 4 days. Opine for the 'good old days' if you will, but things change and apparently so has this site.

Choosing to post on threads like this, is a choice you alone make. No one forces you. And I see no one asking for a pat on the head, merely advice on how best to navigate the USCIS bureaucracy. What does anyone gain having you bash someone on the head because they haven't chosen the route that *you* feel is right for them? As I said before, it's responses like the ones in this thread that make others afraid to post. It is possible to post warnings and concerns without such a bullying tone.

And you needn't tell me that there are many on VJ who feel the same - I've seen. If the VJ site does not welcome those would-be immigrants who enter and choose to adjust status concurrently with I-130, perhaps there should be some notice to that effect.