No, Actually, It's that the Economy is Falling Apart

[Heracles 417]

Because they fought for those rights. Same thing with other groups that undergo discrimination. Now... if only social structures would reflect this so-called equal access to advancement opportunities...

By eliminating affirmative action for a start. Achievement should be based on merit and not on skin color or whether you are a minority.

Edited September 8, 2008 by Aficionado

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Some did sure - but its a far cry to go from that to painting slavery as a positive development in the lives of those people.

I don't think slavery was supposed to be a positive experience for the slaves. Black Americans weren't happy about slavery but very few are willing to go back to Africa permanently. Even Muhammad Ali said something about him being glad his ancestors got on that boat. They suffered but later generations eventually prospered.

Because they fought for those rights. Same thing with other groups that undergo discrimination. Now... if only social structures would reflect this so-called equal access to advancement opportunities...

That is also true - when people take umbridge at "Black Culture" they often forget that we have, for example, a Black History Month - because those people had to fight for recognition, and indeed for a collective identity.

[Heracles 417]

I'll put it another way. Considering most African Americans are about 5 or 6 generations off from being in Africa, I am sure we could trace back the roots of quite a number of people. I would love to see where their distance cousins and family members are living and their situations. While it is all good and dandy to talk about how bad slavery and segregation is, which absolutely no one is denying. Yet I would also love to see where and what conditions the majority of people would be living in. If people like Obama, Oprah, Will Smith, Mohamed Ali, Spike Lee, Jesse Jackson, Al Shaprton, ancestors had not been brought to America. This is only the only true test which would prove whether this worked out better for them or worse for them.

That is, if the slave trade had never happened and they had all stayed in Africa. For one thing, I know America would be a completely different country. Probably more of a UK, Canada, Australia / Europe.

Genealogy requires historical records to establish familial connection. I could be wrong - but I'd be very surprised if the slave trade kept the sort of detailed records that, say, Ellis Island does.

There are records out there. Al Rocker on the today show as able to track his past.

[HAL 9000 96]

Some did sure - but its a far cry to go from that to painting slavery as a positive development in the lives of those people.

I don't think slavery was supposed to be a positive experience for the slaves. Black Americans weren't happy about slavery but very few are willing to go back to Africa permanently. Even Muhammad Ali said something about him being glad his ancestors got on that boat. They suffered but later generations eventually prospered.

Well if it was a choice between being killed at home by rival tribes - it probably made sense to stay, even if they did have to suffer horrific institutional racism at the hands of the white majority.

Of course when you're dealing with several generations of slaves it becomes difficult for the descendants to establish a connection with your ancestors homeland, if they even had the capacity to return at all.

I'll put it another way. Considering most African Americans are about 5 or 6 generations off from being in Africa, I am sure we could trace back the roots of quite a number of people. I would love to see where their distance cousins and family members are living and their situations. While it is all good and dandy to talk about how bad slavery and segregation is, which absolutely no one is denying. Yet I would also love to see where and what conditions the majority of people would be living in. If people like Obama, Oprah, Will Smith, Mohamed Ali, Spike Lee, Jesse Jackson, Al Shaprton, ancestors had not been brought to America. This is only the only true test which would prove whether this worked out better for them or worse for them.

That is, if the slave trade had never happened and they had all stayed in Africa. For one thing, I know America would be a completely different country. Probably more of a UK, Canada, Australia / Europe.

Only 5-6 generations with the first 1-3 generations in a slave system that stripped them of a sense of identity to the African continent.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I'll put it another way. Considering most African Americans are about 5 or 6 generations off from being in Africa, I am sure we could trace back the roots of quite a number of people. I would love to see where their distance cousins and family members are living and their situations. While it is all good and dandy to talk about how bad slavery and segregation is, which absolutely no one is denying. Yet I would also love to see where and what conditions the majority of people would be living in. If people like Obama, Oprah, Will Smith, Mohamed Ali, Spike Lee, Jesse Jackson, Al Shaprton, ancestors had not been brought to America. This is only the only true test which would prove whether this worked out better for them or worse for them.

That is, if the slave trade had never happened and they had all stayed in Africa. For one thing, I know America would be a completely different country. Probably more of a UK, Canada, Australia / Europe.

Genealogy requires historical records to establish familial connection. I could be wrong - but I'd be very surprised if the slave trade kept the sort of detailed records that, say, Ellis Island does.

There are records out there. Al Rocker on the today show as able to track his past.

Not easily.

[Heracles 417]

That is also true - when people take umbridge at "Black Culture" they often forget that we have, for example, a Black History Month - because those people had to fight for recognition, and indeed for a collective identity.

Which people? The only people I hear mention it in the media is someone black when it comes to excuse something with a, "You just don't understand black culture". Yeah that must be it..

[HAL 9000 96]

'Proof' that fits a deluded vision of what is a point of view hardly qualifies any classification. Specially when you contradict yourself with your own brand of logic.

Again... you are not really able to differentiate between imposition and challenging an imposition... so we'll leave it at that. Do you really feel that threatened with people that have different beliefs having the same rights as everyone else?

This must be a taste of Chicago style politics they all talk about. What is good for the goose is clearly not acceptable for the gander.

Atheists pushing their views = Acceptable

Christians pushing their views = Bad

Again... who's pushing what and where? I think the entire argument you are 'pushing' is one that only defends your particular favor of an imposition. I on the other hand, am asking you quite nicely to get over it and quit your tomfoolery. And read that I do not support imposing anything on anyone- as per having equal protection for all instead of unequal imposing by a segment of the whole.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

That is also true - when people take umbridge at "Black Culture" they often forget that we have, for example, a Black History Month - because those people had to fight for recognition, and indeed for a collective identity.

Which people? The only people I hear mention it in the media is someone black when it comes to excuse something with a, "You just don't understand black culture". Yeah that must be it..

Well.... You.

For example.

[HAL 9000 96]

Because they fought for those rights. Same thing with other groups that undergo discrimination. Now... if only social structures would reflect this so-called equal access to advancement opportunities...

By eliminating affirmative action for a start. Achievement should be based on merit and not on skin color or whether you are a minority.

Ahhh... merit in an inherently unequal society- at this time. Quite a feat of realism.

I do think that sometime down the line that exactly will be the case. But, that time is still not upon us.

[alienlovechild 75]

Hi, this is not Germany, or France, or Spain, or Iraq. This discussion is about the United States.

So you don't think the U.S. government could violate freedom of religion but you think a lot of other (unknown) rights (from an older thread) are already threatened?

I will repeat, probably because they can't name a way that atheists (or agnostics) have suppressed religious people.

They haven't had a majority coalition. . . yet.

Name them. I'd love to see you name anything around the territory of atheist/agnostic suppression upon religion. If you want to debate in this country the overbearing suppression and the source of it, you will find it entirely from religious white men. Not atheists. Not black people. Not arabs.

Again, atheists, blacks and arabs aren't a majority in this nation so they can't do much. Every minority group wants their rights protected from the tranny of the majority but will they protect others when they are in power?

[Heracles 417]

Only 5-6 generations with the first 1-3 generations in a slave system that stripped them of a sense of identity to the African continent.

Someone needs to conduct some research to determine whether the majority of African Americans are better off here after slavery. Or whether they would be bettor off if they had never been sold, in many case by their own people, as slaves. If they would be better of in the various African countries. I rest my case and say we should compensate them all. Yes, every single dam person.

Some of you guys are seriously deluded and brainwashed by the liberal propaganda. You obviously cannot accept reality. You fail to acknowledge the historical link of violence within numerous cultures and its relation with their present day actions. You fail to acknowledge that certain cultures are behaving in a similar violent fashion in various parts of the world they have immigrated to. You only look at the US and disclaim their actions with a whitey, slavery and segregation is to blame. You deny the same cultures who, to this very day, are butchering one another in various parts of the world.

Of course some have established that the white man is solely to blame. Regardless of the time that has passed since he governed certain African nations or its people. Regardless of the condition this white man left those places in, to what they have become.

I ask you Maviwaro, is a white man to blame for a black male going on a drive by shooting killing a 8 month old baby. Is a white man to blame for a black male shooting another black male in front of his wife because he asked him to move his car, which was illegal parallel parked, so he could move his car..

That is also true - when people take umbridge at "Black Culture" they often forget that we have, for example, a Black History Month - because those people had to fight for recognition, and indeed for a collective identity.

Which people? The only people I hear mention it in the media is someone black when it comes to excuse something with a, "You just don't understand black culture". Yeah that must be it..

Well.... You.

For example.

Sorry lad, I never heard of "Black Culture" until it came out of a African American's mouth excusing racism.

Edited September 8, 2008 by Aficionado

[Ban Hammer 13,356]

on a related note, just this past weekend i heard how tookie williams was killed by the man, and that he was a nobel peace prize winner!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Only 5-6 generations with the first 1-3 generations in a slave system that stripped them of a sense of identity to the African continent.

Someone needs to conduct some research to determine whether the majority of African Americans are better off here after slavery. Or whether they would be bettor off if they had never been sold, in many case by their own people, as slaves. If they would be better of in the various African countries. I rest my case and say we should compensate them all. Yes, every single dam person.

Some of you guys are seriously deluded and brainwashed by the liberal propaganda. You obviously cannot accept reality. You fail to acknowledge the historical link of violence within numerous cultures and its relation with their present day actions. You fail to acknowledge that certain cultures are behaving in a similar violent fashion in various parts of the world they have immigrated to. You only look at the US and disclaim their actions with a whitey, slavery and segregation is to blame. You deny the same cultures who, to this very day, are butchering one another in various parts of the world.

Of course some have established that the white man is solely to blame. Regardless of the time that has passed since he governed certain African nations or its people. Regardless of the condition this white man left those places in, to what they have become.

I ask you Maviwaro, is a white man to blame for a black male going on a drive by shooting killing a 8 month old baby. Is a white man to blame for a black male shooting another black male in front of his wife because he asked him to move his car, which was illegal parallel parked, so he could move his car..

That is also true - when people take umbridge at "Black Culture" they often forget that we have, for example, a Black History Month - because those people had to fight for recognition, and indeed for a collective identity.

Which people? The only people I hear mention it in the media is someone black when it comes to excuse something with a, "You just don't understand black culture". Yeah that must be it..

Well.... You.

For example.

Sorry lad, I never heard of "Black Culture" until it came out of a African American's mouth excusing racism.

I dunno - if we go back through the archive, you seem to know a whole lot about it. Or claim to at any rate...

[Heracles 417]

Again, atheists, blacks and arabs aren't a majority in this nation so they can't do much. Every minority group wants their rights protected from the tranny of the majority but will they protect others when they are in power?

What the minority needs to think about is what happens when the majority has enough of the ####### and they themselves stand up and demand rights and a voice.

This reminds me of the stories I hear in schools where kids with LD and those who are so-called "gifted" get the most attention. While the majority are left to foot the bill and simply shut up and take it.

Now that sort of rubbish is what is unconstitutional. And if there is not such an amendment there bloody well should be. It is ridiculous to think that there is a country where the majority are silenced yet the few call the shots.

Edited September 8, 2008 by Aficionado

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Again, atheists, blacks and arabs aren't a majority in this nation so they can't do much. Every minority group wants their rights protected from the tranny of the majority but will they protect others when they are in power?

What the minority needs to think about is what happens when the majority has enough of the ####### and they themselves stand up and demand rights and a voice.

This reminds me of the stories I hear in schools where kids with LD and those who are so-called "gifted" get the most attention. While the majority are left to foot the bill and simply shut up and take it. Now that sort of rubbish is what is unconstitutional. And if there is not such an amendment there bloody well should be. It is ridiculous to think that there is a country where the majority are silenced yet the few call the shots.

The majority won't do this - for the simple reason that it IS a majority.

If you're talking a minority of the majority however...