No, Actually, It's that the Economy is Falling Apart

[Heracles 417]

Wait, so I give you all of the examples of how whites have suppressed others, and have had it easy in the U.S., and continue to, today, and you respond to me, telling me how I'm a whitey hater, and your rationale for refusing to actually show how these claims I made aren't true (I'm not even asking for sources, just your own explanation), or how whites have suffered, and it's irrelevant and pointless?

Awesome.

Your point is irrelevant no matter which way you put it.

Whites did not suffer as much.. who cares..

Here SVRT, maybe you can have a cry about it. I certainly will not.

Edited September 8, 2008 by Aficionado

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Epic fail. Oh dear...

[Heracles 417]

Who in America is now suffering or who is alive that has suffered directly by slavery SVRT?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Who in America is now suffering or who is alive that has suffered directly by slavery SVRT?

Why don't you answer his question? Then I'm sure he'll answer yours...

Hell - I'll answer yours. There is noone alive in America who suffered slavery directly. However - that wasn't what the arguments made to you were getting at...

As to "who in America is now suffering?" - Quite a few people I'd say...

Edited September 8, 2008 by Paul Daniels

[Heracles 417]

Epic fail. Oh dear...

Here is a quote from your quote for SVRT:

White slaves transported to the colonies suffered a staggering loss of life in the 17th and 18th century. During the voyage to America it was customary to keep the White slaves below deck for the entire nine to twelve week journey. A White slave would be confined to a hole not more than sixteen feet long, chained with 50 other men to a board, with padlocked collars around their necks. The weeks of confinement below deck in the ship's stifling hold often resulted in outbreaks of contagious disease which would sweep through the "cargo" of White "freight" chained in the bowels of the ship.

[Heracles 417]

Who in America is now suffering or who is alive that has suffered directly by slavery SVRT?

Why don't you answer his question? Then I'm sure he'll answer yours...

Hell - I'll answer yours. There is noone alive in America who suffered slavery directly. However - that wasn't what the arguments made to you were getting at...

As to "who in America is now suffering?" - Quite a few people I'd say...

His question is ridiculous. How has the white man suffered..

All white men lived a life of milk and honey. That innuendo is the absolute dumbest thing I have heard. It even tops half the ####### you have written over the years. You, once again, proved that you are biased #6. You proved it by having no issue with this question yet in a heart beat would throw out a you are generalizing comment if I had made it.

Edited September 8, 2008 by Aficionado

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Epic fail. Oh dear...

Here is a quote from your quote for SVRT:

White slaves transported to the colonies suffered a staggering loss of life in the 17th and 18th century. During the voyage to America it was customary to keep the White slaves below deck for the entire nine to twelve week journey. A White slave would be confined to a hole not more than sixteen feet long, chained with 50 other men to a board, with padlocked collars around their necks. The weeks of confinement below deck in the ship's stifling hold often resulted in outbreaks of contagious disease which would sweep through the "cargo" of White "freight" chained in the bowels of the ship.

Actually that quote is an article that you posted.

There certainly was white slavery - but it didn't lead to the systemic social conditions that are apparent today. Because while slavery was abolished 200+ years ago - it wasn't until the 1960's (and the civil rights movement) that blacks were granted equality under the law. Before that they were essentially groomed as an underclass labor force.

[Heracles 417]

Actually that quote is an article that you posted.

No #### sherlock..

[IAMX 3,055]

Epic fail. Oh dear...

Here is a quote from your quote for SVRT:

White slaves transported to the colonies suffered a staggering loss of life in the 17th and 18th century. During the voyage to America it was customary to keep the White slaves below deck for the entire nine to twelve week journey. A White slave would be confined to a hole not more than sixteen feet long, chained with 50 other men to a board, with padlocked collars around their necks. The weeks of confinement below deck in the ship's stifling hold often resulted in outbreaks of contagious disease which would sweep through the "cargo" of White "freight" chained in the bowels of the ship.

Even giving that some credence (and I'd rather not, but just for the sake of argument), as there is a substantial lack of verifiability in that (and noteworthy biased claims, which back up the pissy attitude which is not noteworthy of actual research, but an op-ed) in whatever extremely small quantity and most of it being well before the United States was established, who enslaved "whites"? Blacks? Indians? No. Other whites. Enslaving poor immigrant white-looking people.

Here were the slave codes in the U.S. to show all about "white slavery" (again, before the establishment of the U.S.). A few examples:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slave_codes

Virginia, 1650 - “Act XI. All persons except Negroes are to be provided with arms and ammunitions or be fined at the pleasure of the governor and council.”

I love this one:

Virginia, 1705 (see Slave Codes of 1705) -- "All servants imported and brought into the Country...who were not Christians in their native Country...shall be accounted and be slaves. All Negro, mulatto and Indian slaves within this dominion...shall be held to be real estate."

In the 19th century, there were 4 million slaves who were black, and countless Native American slaves from coast to coast, until it was abolished. However many black slavers or white slaves there may have been (again, giving the article credence, which is written in a highly opinionated fashion without any sources to back up the claims), it was in disproportionate numbers, and barely even noteworthy, especially compared to, under the United States, of 4 million black slaves. Of the 100,000 mentioned (again, unsourced, unreliable claims), they were not from the U.S., they were foreigners transported by the British, here.

However, the more I search on this piece, the more I realize it's an op-ed.

Here's some more Biblical stuff which whites helped justify their slavery with:

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. -- Exodus 21:7-11

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. -- Exodus 21:20-21

[Heracles 417]

And how many Americans in 2008 are slaves again? I'll give you a hint, starts with Z ends with o...

I am still waiting on your overall point. Yes people back then treated others poorly. This is something that is not isolated or trademarked by white American males. People all over the world have been and are to this day treated poorly and inhumanely. To pin this on a religion, white males with right wing views is just ridiculous by any means.

Edited September 9, 2008 by Aficionado

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Who in America is now suffering or who is alive that has suffered directly by slavery SVRT?

Why don't you answer his question? Then I'm sure he'll answer yours...

Hell - I'll answer yours. There is noone alive in America who suffered slavery directly. However - that wasn't what the arguments made to you were getting at...

As to "who in America is now suffering?" - Quite a few people I'd say...

His question is ridiculous. How has the white man suffered..

All white men lived a life of milk and honey. That innuendo is the absolute dumbest thing I have heard. It even tops half the ####### you have written over the years. You, once again, proved that you are biased #6. You proved it by having no issue with this question yet in a heart beat would throw out a you are generalizing comment if I had made it.

Why is it ridiculous?

His point was that firstly, in all these pages of discussion that you haven't once denounced slavery and instead seem to be making deliberate arguments to mitigate it, justify it or otherwise make it seem like a pleasant life.

Secondly that you can't provide any concrete examples of how whites americans have suffered (systemically), in comparison to blacks.

To be honest with you - you are making a tenuous argument. Few people (of any ethnicity) have a life of roses - but then again few people were subject to institutional racism even after the end of slavery - right through to the 1960's. You're scoffing at social disparities between blacks and whites, disparities which manifest themselves most obviously at the socio-economic level - justifying the argument with your apparent incredulity that "they don't go to the library" or "move to where the jobs are".

Some shameless audacity that you have there.

[IAMX 3,055]

I am still waiting on your overall point.

Your point is irrelevant no matter which way you put it.

Even though it was already stated twice now, which is it? Should I quote myself, or should I assume you're schizophrenic?

Yes people back then treated others poorly. This is something that is not isolated or trademarked by white American males. People all over the world have been and are to this day treated poorly and inhumanely. To pin this on a religion, white males with right wing views is just ridiculous by any means.

Point out to me where I suggested slavery is an issue today. While you're doing it, you can also quote where I did suggest the problems related to civil rights (big issues like these) today are indeed perpetuated by whites, namely white christian males.

You still have not refuted anything, just made up #######, refused to read, and made several contradictory statements like shown above.

[Heracles 417]

Why is it ridiculous?

His point was that firstly, in all these pages of discussion that you haven't once denounced slavery and instead seem to be making deliberate arguments to mitigate it, justify it or otherwise make it seem like a pleasant life.

Secondly that you can't provide any concrete examples of how whites americans have suffered (systemically), in comparison to blacks.

To be honest with you - you are making a tenuous argument. Few people (of any ethnicity) have a life of roses - but then again few people were subject to institutional racism even after the end of slavery - right through to the 1960's. You're scoffing at social disparities between blacks and whites, disparities which manifest themselves most obviously at the socio-economic level - justifying the argument with your apparent incredulity that "they don't go to the library" or "move to where the jobs are".

Some shameless audacity that you have there.

Denouncing slavery is just stupid. It is as dumb as someone protesting naked to stop global warming. A pointless action which basically makes the feeble mind feel better about bull #######.

Slavery happened. It was inhumane and wrong, people with a half a brain functioning have acknowledged it and moved on. The world has much more important issues to deal with like poverty, starvation, genocide, threat of world war and so forth than worrying about garbage like has the white man suffered. What sort of an idiot comes up with that sort of #######.

Edited September 9, 2008 by Aficionado

[IAMX 3,055]

Still on the defensive. No one in this discussion is asking whites to apologize for anything. I wouldn't apologize for anything and the person who asked me to could kiss my ###. However, your inability to actually focus on the central points being made clearly shows both your sucking at debates and your willingness to go well off into left field for no reason at all.

Edited September 9, 2008 by SRVT

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Why is it ridiculous?

His point was that firstly, in all these pages of discussion that you haven't once denounced slavery and instead seem to be making deliberate arguments to mitigate it, justify it or otherwise make it seem like a pleasant life.

Secondly that you can't provide any concrete examples of how whites americans have suffered (systemically), in comparison to blacks.

To be honest with you - you are making a tenuous argument. Few people (of any ethnicity) have a life of roses - but then again few people were subject to institutional racism even after the end of slavery - right through to the 1960's. You're scoffing at social disparities between blacks and whites, disparities which manifest themselves most obviously at the socio-economic level - justifying the argument with your apparent incredulity that "they don't go to the library" or "move to where the jobs are".

Some shameless audacity that you have there.

Denouncing slavery is just stupid. It is as dumb as someone protesting naked to stop global warming. A pointless action which basically makes the feeble mind feel better about bull #######.

Slavery happened. It was inhumane and wrong, people with a half a brain functioning have acknowledged it and moved on. The world has much more important issues to deal with like poverty, starvation, genocide, threat of world war and so forth than worrying about garbage like has the white man suffered. What sort of an idiot comes up with that sort of #######.

If denouncing slavery is stupid - I'll be interested to hear your thoughts on the holocaust.

The only point thats been made here (and in all of the threads on this topic actually) is that there are lingering social inequalities arising from the repressive policies of previous governments. I don't see why that's such a controversial idea for you...