Alberta teens get community service for animal cruelty

[Nagishkaw 510]

[GaryC 7]

For the record, the cruelty of the sh!tfukcs in the original post made me ill. The reactions of a few here explain a lot. I now understand why they say some of the things they say.

Mags- no problem editing the title. It was disturbing but I just copy/pasted the original.

[Peikko 1,575]

How many people can stand up and say "I never squashed bugs, snails or any other living creature when I was a child"? I am betting the actual number who can say that is very small. However, there is a judgment going on here, that the life of a cat is more valuable than the life of say a snail/spider. Kids don't always kill these animals out of anger, there are all kinds of reasons that go into it. I have seen kids of 9/10/11 take pleasure in the killing of a wasp - should these kids be sent to jail?

I killed a pigeon 'for fun' when I was about 8. When it was dead, it had a profound effect on me and I haven't deliberately killed anything since that time. However, it is something I did and I am sure some of you will now shake your heads and go 'I'm not surprised, I always thought there was something funny about her". Fine, you make your judgments about me, but I acknowledge that within me there is an ability to kill, even if the thought of doing so is now completely repugnant and I have been very careful to instill in my son a sense of value to all life which I believe he is starting to understand.

I think is was brave, and perhaps reckless of SRVT to reveal his reality to others on this site. I don't think anyone can make a 'sicko nuts' judgement about his actions. It was not premeditated either, premeditated would be just waking up one day and saying, I'm going to go out, find a cat and kill it.

Anyway, there we are, these kids in the OP article made a very bad choice and they are suffering the consequences that people in the position to know have deemed is appropriate. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't but that's how it is.

[Nagishkaw 510]

For the record, the cruelty of the sh!tfukcs in the original post made me ill. The reactions of a few here explain a lot. I now understand why they say some of the things they say.

Mags- no problem editing the title. It was disturbing but I just copy/pasted the original.

Agreed.

[KarenCee 3]

*laughs softly* Y'all can post all you want about how horrible this act was, how unbelieveable some of the posts are on this thread, but you know what...no matter what you say or how judgmental the others think it is...nothing will change their minds nor yours. They are going to feel the way they want no matter what you say. You are going to feel the way you do no matter how much they say to the contrary. This is one of those "agree to disagree" subjects. Not everyone has the same ideals when it comes to life...whether that life is human or animal. Some place value on life only if it is a human one. Some feel ALL life has value. What's important is how YOU feel.

Then again, this IS "Off Topic"...

Sorry to say this Karen, but your "laughs softly" comment sounds kind of condescending.

This is a horrible story and a horrible act, in my opinion.

Now, this is just my opinion, however I feel strongly enough about this to voice it.

Sure, not everyone will feel the same way and of course I will feel that way no matter what anyone says to the contrary, does this mean that I, or other people shouldn't voice their opinions?

You could say what you said about a number of topics and I would guess you would say it depending on how important YOU think the topic is, would you have 'laughed softly' if the topic was racism? The fact that the conversation is taking place in the visa journey off topic forum and probably won't change a damn thing, including others opinions doesn't make it any less important to speak out about what you believe.

Sorry you felt that way but I assure you...it wasn't at all condescending. I was merely laughing to myself because I knew that this was one of those "agree to disagree" topics. How I chose to express that was just how I typed it. I feel that I am one of the LEAST condescending people on this board.

Yes they do have their opinions. That's something I've always said on here regardless of the topic and I've never said opinions shouldn't be stated. I guess I was forseeing this topic going on and on and eventually becoming so heated that it would be closed, hence my post. Again, for that, I do apologise.

I am also very sorry you misinterpreted my "laugh". I've been misinterpreted many times on here. I'm sure it won't be the last. I've spoken out on a lot of topics...both in this OT and in the Canada OT...and have been lambasted for them but one thing I've never done is accuse someone of talking down to me or call them "condescending". I spoke my opinion and that's pretty much it. As usual, my opinion as well as the thousands of others on here, are always open to interpretation.

Peace out.

[MrsCat 6]

And Madame Cleo speaks to us with her morally superior viewpoint about passing judgment on others. How very ironic?!

[Peikko 1,575]

*shrugs* why does what I think/post make you so uncomfortable, apparently?

[MrsCat 6]

*shrugs* why does what I think/post make you so uncomfortable, apparently?

I know I'm a judgmental person and I'm okay with that. I just always find it ironic when someone says "boy that person is judgmental" when really that is a judgment about a judgment. The logical side of me snickers, that's all.

[Peikko 1,575]

We all make judgments all the time, it's pretty much what opinions are. All I said was, that I think those who judged SRVT as a sicko nuts for what he did to that feral cat are out of line, considering most children kill something for reasons that have nothing to do with necessity at least once, even if what they kill is insect life as apposed to something warm blooded or vertebrate.

What does that truly tell us about the psychology of the individual? Certainly the act of killing by children should be confronted but, I wasn't ever 'caught' for my act of cruelty and no one would ever know about it if I didn't say anything. Now you do know, you might attribute things to me that you believe are a result of that one action in my childhood, but I doubt you would be right (collective you not specific).

The consequences of a child killing an animal aren't always an inevitable decent into serial killing of either animals or human beings. Sometimes they are and perhaps the unusual cruelty of the suffering of that cat require the kids to be treated for some kind of mental illness, and maybe they don't. Maybe when they say they will never do something like that ever again, they really do mean it because they now know the reality of what their actions are. Maybe one of these kids is normal, maybe one of them is psychologically disturbed or maybe both are. All we can hope is that because they were caught and they are being evaluated, punished and hopefully treated, is that they will now move forward into being productive and socially integrated members of society. That's my hope anyway.

[Mags 112]

We shoot animals just for being on our property. We kill them for our clothes, to make wallets, shoes, and whatnot. This happens constantly, and to animals domesticated and around people often. I'm certainly not going to fall for being looked down upon by some animal rights nut. Nor am I going to feel bad for a lesson already learned. But I will certainly dish it back to someone who wants to be a judgmental ######.

Actually, I'm not an "animal rights" nut. I just have a problem with people and extreme acts of cruelty - whether it be against another human or an animal. The irony with your post is that you have labelled me as an animal rights nut, when in fact I don't belong to any animal rights movement. Your label is more judgemental than anything I have written so far. Incidentally, not once did I resort to name calling - you have.

I can't believe they got in trouble for this. It was just a cat!! It's not like it was a baby, or even a dog!! Ugh.

http://myspace-943.vo.llnwd.net/01448/34/99/1448559943_l.gif

I wonder how they know to scratch on the glass?

It's only illegal if you get caught.

And if you get caught doing something as easy and as easy to get away with as putting a cat in a microwave, you're just a doofus and it's just a matter of time before you get caught doing something illegal.

besides, it shouldn't be illegal to kill cats anyway.

I lol'd at akdiver. Having fun with you comments? I'll suggest that most people ignore his comments, he's just trying to stir the pot - as usual.

Some feel ALL life has value. .

I KarenCee.

Edited September 7, 2008 by Magenta

[Peikko 1,575]

For what it is worth, I think (this is purely my opinion) that most children under the age of 12ish, probably older don't actually know what death means in the way an adult does. You can say, if you do such and such to that animal it will die and it is cruel, but I am not at all sure that that concept translates into anything meaningful for quite some time.

None of this makes excuses for cruelty or gives it a free pass. Cruelty is cruelty. What I did to the pigeon was cruel and unnecessary and there is a part of me that would like to pretend that I didn't do it, or better still that I could change things and have never done it. However, that is not real. I have to face what I did. Anyone who hasn't ever done something cruel in their lives, well, that must be an amazingly special feeling and I have to give you credit because that is wonderful. However, I don't know how that would feel because I am not that person.

[MrsCat 6]

Madame Cleo - I appreciate your words and sentiments and sticking to the topic. I agree with you that kids probably do not appreciate what death means, and are largely unable to appreciate the consequences and meaning of their actions. However, for me, the turning point when you start to appreciate things at a higher level of abstraction is around the age of 14-15-16. These teenagers were well within the bracket to do this.

This is my problem with the level of punishment and the actions of the kids.

At the age of 15-16 (it was a year ago, so I presume they were 15 or just turned 16) you can appreciate what breaking into a house means. This was a premeditated act on two occasions. They entered the house illegally the first night, because they knew that the family was away on Christmas vacation. They actively chose that house because of the opportunity of not getting caught. They entered the house again on the second night, with friends, because again, it was probably a thrill and felt like they were accomplishing something. Whatever that might have been.

I am not sure on what night they decided to kill the cat (please be aware that to me the act is so disgusting, that I cannot write the actual act down), but they did. They listened to it howl, and scream until it died. They had the option to turn it off, and get it help, or kill it quickly. I grew up on a farm, and I have had to kill many things in my life. I never enjoyed it, but sometimes it has to be done. I would have some remorse for these kids if one of them had the balls to stop it from happening. Or getting a knife and slitting its throat rather than letting it suffer for as long as it did.

If these kids had the forethought, to then write on the wall "you have a nice cat" clearly that articulates the level of hatred in their souls, and secondly they possessed the knowledge about the profound impact that that cat had in their life. The didn't write - "you have a nice TV" (because they vandalized the house and broke the TV), they knew the suffering that was inflicted by the cat. These boys are not children - they undertook the actions of a well-aware adult.

I agree with you Madame that some kids - undertake actions that cannot be undone, and they don't do it because they are monsters, they're learning their place in the world. Sounds like you hurting a pigeon had a profound impact on your knowledge of the world and the meaning that death has. However, these boys were not just learning about the value of a life. Clearly they already understood - clearly demonstrated through their actions.

I hate to confuse this to be about the victim being "just a cat". Its about whether these boys undertook actions which they clearly understood the implications of. And I'm sorry to say, that they did clearly understand what they were doing.

Now - the boys probably feel some level of remorse for what they did. I suspect that it is not because they better identify with the family and the cat, rather the community has held them accountable for their actions. I live not too far from where this happened, and the kids and family have been made into lepers. This is probably going to create more corrective action than anything else could. But, my problem with the community response serving as a punishment, is that is not a punishment which is meted out by society as a whole. This is community specific, the kids can move away, and no one will ever know that it was them who did this. They do not have to explain serving time in a detention centre. Life will eventually move on. Criminal justice is premised on both punishment and correction. While correction is being served, there is no punishment. That makes me sad as this is a total miscarriage of a sentence. Punishment should not rest on a community to ensure that it is fair and meted out appropriately, that is what we have time in jail for which is monitored by the state.

Those are my thoughts.

[IAMX 3,055]

There's one thing I do keep in mind, and that is never underestimate the hypocrisy of the judgmental. There's not a single one of you being judgmental about an ELEVEN year old who are rational in the slightest. There's no way in hell you haven't done anything in your life you regret. And to sit there, up on your pedestal and tell me this is wrong and how ###### up I am (hi Gary, not surprising there.. moral elite knocking at my doorstep) does what? I already learned my lesson. Essentially, every one of you who want to tell me how horrible it was is just reinforcing the ####### Magenda spewed which is on one's high horse, and you need to come down from it. And guess what, I'm sure as hell not apologizing to any one of you, and if you want to connect that with how I act, that's fine, and a means for justification of political positions (hi again Gary). Ironically, in hunting, your friend Ted Nugent destroys animals, yes, while hunting, in the most gruesome ways possible, and supplants their heads on his gun. And he's a conservative hero.

If you want to act like I'm an atrocious person because of what I did at eleven years old, by Magenta's logic, because MILLIONS DIDN'T DO IT -- I guarantee all of you have done something millions others haven't (of course, you're also hiding it, I don't care to) -- that's fine with me, I have no problem going toe to toe with some judgmental #######.

It doesn't matter to me, as mentioned in this topic, I'll take on any one of you who want to jump in on this moral superiority bandwagon. In the end, it's not going to change how I feel about the OP, which has nothing to do with what happened at eleven, nor my political positions (the most ironic of judgments here, hi Gary), so if you want to make yourself feel high and mighty, and continue this joke of trying to tear someone down because of what they did in the years of not knowing what they're doing, by all means, I'm all for it. Just note it will have a retort equally as harsh.

Edited September 7, 2008 by SRVT

[sara535 15]

what a sad story. I'm gonna go kiss my kitties right now. maybe even give them some canned food

[GaryC 7]

There's one thing I do keep in mind, and that is never underestimate the hypocrisy of the judgmental. There's not a single one of you being judgmental about an ELEVEN year old who are rational in the slightest. There's no way in hell you haven't done anything in your life you regret. And to sit there, up on your pedestal and tell me this is wrong and how ###### up I am (hi Gary, not surprising there.. moral elite knocking at my doorstep) does what? I already learned my lesson. Essentially, every one of you who want to tell me how horrible it was is just reinforcing the ####### Magenda spewed which is on one's high horse, and you need to come down from it. And guess what, I'm sure as hell not apologizing to any one of you, and if you want to connect that with how I act, that's fine, and a means for justification of political positions (hi again Gary). Ironically, in hunting, your friend Ted Nugent destroys animals, yes, while hunting, in the most gruesome ways possible, and supplants their heads on his gun. And he's a conservative hero.

If you want to act like I'm an atrocious person because of what I did at eleven years old, by Magenta's logic, because MILLIONS DIDN'T DO IT -- I guarantee all of you have done something millions others haven't (of course, you're also hiding it, I don't care to) -- that's fine with me, I have no problem going toe to toe with some judgmental #######.

It doesn't matter to me, as mentioned in this topic, I'll take on any one of you who want to jump in on this moral superiority bandwagon. In the end, it's not going to change how I feel about the OP, which has nothing to do with what happened at eleven, nor my political positions (the most ironic of judgments here, hi Gary), so if you want to make yourself feel high and mighty, and continue this joke of trying to tear someone down because of what they did in the years of not knowing what they're doing, by all means, I'm all for it. Just note it will have a retort equally as harsh.

Thanks, I didn't mention names so this is interesting you felt the need to respond. Great insights into who you are here.