Affair while Married

[pushbrk 12,908]

Final thought, I find it interesting that someone can actually choose who they fall in love with. My personal thought is that someone who is that much in control of the heart is also one who doesn't fall into the deep intense love. Why in the world would anyone look for someone from a different country considering the stress, time, and money involved? Why wouldn't you pick someone from here in the states? I guess if you couldn't find anyone here in the states that was interested in you it would make sense, but other than that oh heck no! Too hard on the heart for my taste!

You choose who you fall in love with by choosing when, where and under what circumstances you will make such feelings available. I might find my friend's wife attractive or even feel some mutual chemistry but I'm in total control of how I respond to those feelings and certainly whether I fall in love with her. Humans control what they decide to control and leave to outside influences, those things they either choose not to control or fail to address.

Some people are in such control of their emotions that when they are in a committed relationship, they don't feel attraction for others. This is more a level of commitment than of emotion. Others allow their lives to be blown to and fro at the whims of their unbridled emotions.

Anybody who knows me would tell you I'm quite emotional and that I've loved deeply and been hurt deeply as a result. At the same time, I'll tell you I chose with whom I fell in love, each and every time. Some chose and some do not.

Hogwash. Maybe for you, but you can't lump us together. If I selected who I fell in love with why in the world didn't I fall for the men I dated with money and status? Why did I fall for a man that lived in a third world country that had nothing. Your logic only makes sense to one who is totally ruled by your head and not your heart. Don't catagorize people by the way you think.

I'm categorizing in the same way you are. Some are ruled primarily by their heads and others primarily by their emotions and people fall in all points along that spectrum.

My point is that the word "can't" is inappropriate in describing this because we all not only "CAN" but "DO" choose to what extent we are "ruled" by head or emotion. Exceptions would be those without the mental capacity to choose for themselves. For an example of how you choose, think about how many times you've murdered, burgled, shop lifted or defrauded anybody lately, no matter how angry or greedy you might have felt. Wait! Are you saying you haven't felt like doing any of those things? Good. You've made some good choices. Or are you telling me, you haven't murdered because of something genetic?

We all set our own standards by which we live and most of us live those standards imperfectly. Even so, there are lines we don't cross. We decide about the lines.

Edited September 18, 2008 by pushbrk

[morocco4ever 63]

Final thought, I find it interesting that someone can actually choose who they fall in love with. My personal thought is that someone who is that much in control of the heart is also one who doesn't fall into the deep intense love. Why in the world would anyone look for someone from a different country considering the stress, time, and money involved? Why wouldn't you pick someone from here in the states? I guess if you couldn't find anyone here in the states that was interested in you it would make sense, but other than that oh heck no! Too hard on the heart for my taste!

You choose who you fall in love with by choosing when, where and under what circumstances you will make such feelings available. I might find my friend's wife attractive or even feel some mutual chemistry but I'm in total control of how I respond to those feelings and certainly whether I fall in love with her. Humans control what they decide to control and leave to outside influences, those things they either choose not to control or fail to address.

Some people are in such control of their emotions that when they are in a committed relationship, they don't feel attraction for others. This is more a level of commitment than of emotion. Others allow their lives to be blown to and fro at the whims of their unbridled emotions.

Anybody who knows me would tell you I'm quite emotional and that I've loved deeply and been hurt deeply as a result. At the same time, I'll tell you I chose with whom I fell in love, each and every time. Some chose and some do not.

Hogwash. Maybe for you, but you can't lump us together. If I selected who I fell in love with why in the world didn't I fall for the men I dated with money and status? Why did I fall for a man that lived in a third world country that had nothing. Your logic only makes sense to one who is totally ruled by your head and not your heart. Don't catagorize people by the way you think.

I'm categorizing in the same way you are. Some are ruled primarily by their heads and others primarily by their emotions and people fall in all points along that spectrum.

My point is that the word "can't" is inappropriate in describing this because we all not only "CAN" but "DO" choose to what extent we are "ruled" by head or emotion. Exceptions would be those without the mental capacity to choose for themselves. For an example of how you choose, think about how many times you've murdered, burgled, shop lifted or defrauded anybody lately, no matter how angry or greedy you might have felt. Wait! Are you saying you haven't felt like doing any of those things? Good. You've made some good choices. Or are you telling me, you haven't murdered because of something genetic?

We all set our own standards by which we live and most of us live those standards imperfectly. Even so, there are lines we don't cross. We decide about the lines.

I hear blah blah blah, but none of it applies to all. When I say "can't" I am referring to me. Don't put me in the same category as you, I am not.

[pushbrk 12,908]

Final thought, I find it interesting that someone can actually choose who they fall in love with. My personal thought is that someone who is that much in control of the heart is also one who doesn't fall into the deep intense love. Why in the world would anyone look for someone from a different country considering the stress, time, and money involved? Why wouldn't you pick someone from here in the states? I guess if you couldn't find anyone here in the states that was interested in you it would make sense, but other than that oh heck no! Too hard on the heart for my taste!

You choose who you fall in love with by choosing when, where and under what circumstances you will make such feelings available. I might find my friend's wife attractive or even feel some mutual chemistry but I'm in total control of how I respond to those feelings and certainly whether I fall in love with her. Humans control what they decide to control and leave to outside influences, those things they either choose not to control or fail to address.

Some people are in such control of their emotions that when they are in a committed relationship, they don't feel attraction for others. This is more a level of commitment than of emotion. Others allow their lives to be blown to and fro at the whims of their unbridled emotions.

Anybody who knows me would tell you I'm quite emotional and that I've loved deeply and been hurt deeply as a result. At the same time, I'll tell you I chose with whom I fell in love, each and every time. Some chose and some do not.

Hogwash. Maybe for you, but you can't lump us together. If I selected who I fell in love with why in the world didn't I fall for the men I dated with money and status? Why did I fall for a man that lived in a third world country that had nothing. Your logic only makes sense to one who is totally ruled by your head and not your heart. Don't catagorize people by the way you think.

I'm categorizing in the same way you are. Some are ruled primarily by their heads and others primarily by their emotions and people fall in all points along that spectrum.

My point is that the word "can't" is inappropriate in describing this because we all not only "CAN" but "DO" choose to what extent we are "ruled" by head or emotion. Exceptions would be those without the mental capacity to choose for themselves. For an example of how you choose, think about how many times you've murdered, burgled, shop lifted or defrauded anybody lately, no matter how angry or greedy you might have felt. Wait! Are you saying you haven't felt like doing any of those things? Good. You've made some good choices. Or are you telling me, you haven't murdered because of something genetic?

We all set our own standards by which we live and most of us live those standards imperfectly. Even so, there are lines we don't cross. We decide about the lines.

I hear blah blah blah, but none of it applies to all. When I say "can't" I am referring to me. Don't put me in the same category as you, I am not.

I'm directly asserting that humans with the mental capacity to do so actually can and do make such choices. I'm not arguing whether you do so, just whether you "can". Are you truly asserting you lack the mental capacity to make such choices? That you actually "can't"?

Edited September 18, 2008 by pushbrk

[morocco4ever 63]

Final thought, I find it interesting that someone can actually choose who they fall in love with. My personal thought is that someone who is that much in control of the heart is also one who doesn't fall into the deep intense love. Why in the world would anyone look for someone from a different country considering the stress, time, and money involved? Why wouldn't you pick someone from here in the states? I guess if you couldn't find anyone here in the states that was interested in you it would make sense, but other than that oh heck no! Too hard on the heart for my taste!

You choose who you fall in love with by choosing when, where and under what circumstances you will make such feelings available. I might find my friend's wife attractive or even feel some mutual chemistry but I'm in total control of how I respond to those feelings and certainly whether I fall in love with her. Humans control what they decide to control and leave to outside influences, those things they either choose not to control or fail to address.

Some people are in such control of their emotions that when they are in a committed relationship, they don't feel attraction for others. This is more a level of commitment than of emotion. Others allow their lives to be blown to and fro at the whims of their unbridled emotions.

Anybody who knows me would tell you I'm quite emotional and that I've loved deeply and been hurt deeply as a result. At the same time, I'll tell you I chose with whom I fell in love, each and every time. Some chose and some do not.

Hogwash. Maybe for you, but you can't lump us together. If I selected who I fell in love with why in the world didn't I fall for the men I dated with money and status? Why did I fall for a man that lived in a third world country that had nothing. Your logic only makes sense to one who is totally ruled by your head and not your heart. Don't catagorize people by the way you think.

I'm categorizing in the same way you are. Some are ruled primarily by their heads and others primarily by their emotions and people fall in all points along that spectrum.

My point is that the word "can't" is inappropriate in describing this because we all not only "CAN" but "DO" choose to what extent we are "ruled" by head or emotion. Exceptions would be those without the mental capacity to choose for themselves. For an example of how you choose, think about how many times you've murdered, burgled, shop lifted or defrauded anybody lately, no matter how angry or greedy you might have felt. Wait! Are you saying you haven't felt like doing any of those things? Good. You've made some good choices. Or are you telling me, you haven't murdered because of something genetic?

We all set our own standards by which we live and most of us live those standards imperfectly. Even so, there are lines we don't cross. We decide about the lines.

I hear blah blah blah, but none of it applies to all. When I say "can't" I am referring to me. Don't put me in the same category as you, I am not.

I'm directly asserting that humans with the mental capacity to do so actually can and do make such choices. I'm not arguing whether you do so, just whether you "can". Are you truly asserting you lack the mental capacity to make such choices? That you actually "can't"?

Your personal digs mean nothing to me. I could do the same but I am not of the character to play that game. Hence, another reason not to place me in your category.

[pushbrk 12,908]

Final thought, I find it interesting that someone can actually choose who they fall in love with. My personal thought is that someone who is that much in control of the heart is also one who doesn't fall into the deep intense love. Why in the world would anyone look for someone from a different country considering the stress, time, and money involved? Why wouldn't you pick someone from here in the states? I guess if you couldn't find anyone here in the states that was interested in you it would make sense, but other than that oh heck no! Too hard on the heart for my taste!

You choose who you fall in love with by choosing when, where and under what circumstances you will make such feelings available. I might find my friend's wife attractive or even feel some mutual chemistry but I'm in total control of how I respond to those feelings and certainly whether I fall in love with her. Humans control what they decide to control and leave to outside influences, those things they either choose not to control or fail to address.

Some people are in such control of their emotions that when they are in a committed relationship, they don't feel attraction for others. This is more a level of commitment than of emotion. Others allow their lives to be blown to and fro at the whims of their unbridled emotions.

Anybody who knows me would tell you I'm quite emotional and that I've loved deeply and been hurt deeply as a result. At the same time, I'll tell you I chose with whom I fell in love, each and every time. Some chose and some do not.

Hogwash. Maybe for you, but you can't lump us together. If I selected who I fell in love with why in the world didn't I fall for the men I dated with money and status? Why did I fall for a man that lived in a third world country that had nothing. Your logic only makes sense to one who is totally ruled by your head and not your heart. Don't catagorize people by the way you think.

I'm categorizing in the same way you are. Some are ruled primarily by their heads and others primarily by their emotions and people fall in all points along that spectrum.

My point is that the word "can't" is inappropriate in describing this because we all not only "CAN" but "DO" choose to what extent we are "ruled" by head or emotion. Exceptions would be those without the mental capacity to choose for themselves. For an example of how you choose, think about how many times you've murdered, burgled, shop lifted or defrauded anybody lately, no matter how angry or greedy you might have felt. Wait! Are you saying you haven't felt like doing any of those things? Good. You've made some good choices. Or are you telling me, you haven't murdered because of something genetic?

We all set our own standards by which we live and most of us live those standards imperfectly. Even so, there are lines we don't cross. We decide about the lines.

I hear blah blah blah, but none of it applies to all. When I say "can't" I am referring to me. Don't put me in the same category as you, I am not.

I'm directly asserting that humans with the mental capacity to do so actually can and do make such choices. I'm not arguing whether you do so, just whether you "can". Are you truly asserting you lack the mental capacity to make such choices? That you actually "can't"?

Your personal digs mean nothing to me. I could do the same but I am not of the character to play that game. Hence, another reason not to place me in your category.

It's not a personal dig. I'm talking about what people can and can't do and you don't want to be in my "can" category. Perhaps we are just not understanding each other. If "can" doesn't apply to you, how is "can't" a personal dig? My whole point is "you can". I'm simply asking you if you mean to say "I can't" or if you mean somthing else.

[morocco4ever 63]

I am merely stating that you are speaking as if everyone is the same as you. Just because your mind, obviously a logical one, thinks a specific way, you can not assume that the rest of the world is the same. Wouldn't this be a boring world if we were all the same? I am sure that with a logical mind such as you have you can see past the "one size fits all" attitude.

[rrobin 2]

Guys and Gals!

This is getting really out of hand. On this pace, soon we will be discussing whether we have a “free will” or not, which will eventually lead to the argument on the existence and interpretation of God. Although I would love to have such discussions, they are not even remotely related to this topic and would not be beneficial for any one around.

[pushbrk 12,908]

I am merely stating that you are speaking as if everyone is the same as you. Just because your mind, obviously a logical one, thinks a specific way, you can not assume that the rest of the world is the same. Wouldn't this be a boring world if we were all the same? I am sure that with a logical mind such as you have you can see past the "one size fits all" attitude.

I've told you a little about how I think but have not suggested others should necessarily think that way. My assertions are about what "CAN" be done, not what should be done. I don't know how I can make that any more clear. "We can't control who we love." is no more an excuse for adultery than "We can't control our sexual urges." is an excuse for molesting a child. We ourselves choose where to draw those lines. Some of the best and worst of us chose many of these things so long ago, we don't really think about them as choices anymore. Maybe that's what you're talking about but it doesn't change the fact the choices were made.

[morocco4ever 63]

Guys and Gals!

This is getting really out of hand. On this pace, soon we will be discussing whether we have a “free will” or not, which will eventually lead to the argument on the existence and interpretation of God. Although I would love to have such discussions, they are not even remotely related to this topic and would not be beneficial for any one around.

Your right, thank you. I'm done.

[RandyM 0]

Thanks again for the most of the advice, opinion and moral criticizing from few PERFECT individuals.

I asked a question per the TOS, and seeking help and answer to a question, however, realized being attacked by few moral police, sorry for the question Chavelle

Back to the topic:

rrobin, pointed out specific link and it gave a reference of adultery (moral turpitude) (past law) and how the law was changed as a reason for denial TO , breaking apart viable marriage could be a reason for denial. The way I understand, you could be entitled to the benefit if it didn’t break apart viable marriage. My friend has a child with fiancée (2 years old), during the extra marital affair, it is a genuine relationship, with tons of evidence, from regular visits oversees, and financial support for few years.

morocco4ever, thanks for the advice of being well prepared, what do you suggest, at the time of filling I-129F? You continue to mention be well prepared any suggestions?

I suggested disclose basic facts, child, date met, where etc. Include pictures with the child and fiancée and let them see thru the divorce decree and the time frame met with fiancée. I would greatly appreciate your input, and I truly believe you are trying to help here.

pushbrk, thanks again for your continued valuable input from beginning of this thread, what is your opinion based on the original question?

As many of you can see, this is a not an easy question.

Edited September 23, 2008 by RandyM

[Delete Me 0]

From my own personal experience in my "Nearly" similiar situation.

I met my fiancee and her family when I was getting married in 2001 to another girl overseas. Fastforward 5 years and a failed marraige My fiancee and I started our relationship (BUT AFTER I FILED DIVORCE PAPERS) I became Godfather to her 2 nephews during my past marraige..

My advice is to just tell the truth and don't think about hiding anything. During my fiancees interview she had to answer some questions about our relationship and was asked if she was the reason for my divorce (she wasn't).

Be honest, and lay all of your cards on the table. Im sure they have seen just about any situation possible.

Goodluck

Edited September 23, 2008 by Buksol

[RandyM 0]

From my own personal experience in my "Nearly" similiar situation.

I met my fiancee and her family when I was getting married in 2001 to another girl overseas. Fastforward 5 years and a failed marraige My fiancee and I started our relationship (BUT AFTER I FILED DIVORCE PAPERS) I became Godfather to her 2 nephews during my past marraige..

My advice is to just tell the truth and don't think about hiding anything. During my fiancees interview she had to answer some questions about our relationship and was asked if she was the reason for my divorce (she wasn't).

Be honest, and lay all of your cards on the table. Im sure they have seen just about any situation possible.

Goodluck

Thanks for being brave and straightforward, I have a question, what did you included in your petition (I-129F0 regarding relationship, and what type of questions were they?

[rrobin 2]

RandyM,

I think Buksol's post says it all. You don't have to hide anything but at the same time you have to argue that there were other genuine reasons for his marriage to fell apart and you are not the reason he left his ex.

[morocco4ever 63]

Sorry I got so sidetracked before.

The fact is that the CO's are not stupid. They can do the math and will see that the USC had an affair which created a child. To try to cover up anything will in turn appear to them as trying to cover some sort of fraud. That is their job, to find fraud. Keep in mind, it isn't their jobs to prove you deserve a visa, it is their job to prove that you don't. So you must be prepared to give the facts, and back it up with documentation whenever possible.

I had a denial, so I am now more aware of where I went wrong. The first thing I should have done was to address any red flags in the initial I-130/I-129f petititon. I would have written a cover letter that explained how we met, how our love grew, and specifically pointed out what was bound to be obvious. In his case his infidelity. I guess I would make sure I would let them know that the marriage was failing long before the affair. Any sort of physical proof would be helpful if not essential to this claim if it is indeed a fact that they can deny based on the breakup happened due to the affair. I would certainly admit that the way he handled it was wrong in the fact that you should have divorced before seeking solice in another. But make sure that they understand that your love for each other is a chance to do things the right way this time. I think it would also be beneficial to have letters of support for your relationship from both his and her family.

I can't remember the original post, so I am just swinging here. If they are not already married, do so. They can pretty much toss a fiance visa out the window if they choose, but they have to take the CR1 much more serious. It takes longer, but is a much better visa in the end.

[RandyM 0]

In his case his infidelity.

You mentioned above, is this was part of your situation from the past? I think I read your husband received intent of denial of letter, but after nearly 1 year and your persistent effort 2nd interview went well. I didnt know what was behind then reason for initial denial.

thanks