Affair while Married

[chavelle 6]

Chavelle,

Were your friend's first marriage was wtih a US Citizen or a foreigner? Did she apply for GC through her first marriage too?

Hey , my friend was previously married to a foreigner. However , she did not have to apply for his green card because he was already a permanent resident. Her current hubby is also a foreigner. The co told him that she was suspicious and blah blah. They pleaded to her but it did not change anything.

good question though!!

The CO saying they were "suspicious" does not sound like a denial for adultery. How about presenting the actual facts you have and letting us draw our own conclusions?

What actual facts do you want,huh? for me to go to my friend and ask for her paperwork then post it for you??... you are nuts!!! You are annoying and I do not wish to continue this conversation with you.You need to loose your judgemental attitude, seriously.I would appreciate it if you do not reply to any of my messages,ok!!!

[morocco4ever 63]

yes i agree with others , the consulate does not care about your past relationships or marriages. They care about now in the present make sure you have your divorce final with decree in your hand before filing any papers work with immigration. As long as it is a real relationship. Then your friend should not not be denied for past mariage.

It's reasonably safe to conclude a Consular officer won't make a big issue of having had an affair and illigitimate child with the foreign beneficiary but you can bet your britches they care about previous relationships for many other reasons. I don't see a worry here but your assertion bolded above is far to broad to be accurate.

yes i can understand what you are saying if there have been abuse or fraud in past relationships. thank you

Actually, the more common reason for concern is that the past relationship is currently ongoing and the petitioned relationship is a fraud. Past relationships, including what the parties know about their partner's past relationships often impact the evaluation of the bona fides of currently petitioned relationships.

Okay it seems like obtaining a Fiancé Visa with extramarital affair is not a problem. However, has anyone experienced any problem due to an extramarital affair in the AOS (adjustment of status) interview???? What I have read is that an extramarital affair that destroys an existing marriage is a 'crime involving moral turpitude' which may result in the denial at AOS. Any thoughts?

I agree with you a 100% . My friend's husband was denied of a visa due to the fact that they were involved in a relationship before the divorce.They tried everything to convince the c/o but it did not work. I am not gonna judge here but I personally think that it is wrong to get involved with a married man/woman.In a situation (mentioned by a previous poster) where they are separated,awaiting divorce is completely different.I told my friend that I was not sorry that her husband was denied.

Think about it.... who would want their husband/wife to meet someone else and end the marriage? ... none of us !!!! This is a SIN....THE BIBLE TELLS US SO!!!!

The moralizing aside, this sounds like "post hoc, ergo propter hoc" logic to me. Your friend was involved in a relationship before the divorce. Later, her husband was denied a visa. Fact number three, is that adultry isn't a grounds for denying a visa, at least in and of itself, no matter how wrong anybody thinks adultry is.

I supect the "due to" is incorrect and the real reason for denial is a combination of more complicated factors.

You are missing the whole point!!! I am not posting here based on what I have been told because I have seen the evidence for myself. You are the one that is being judgemental here. Maybe you don't have a problem with it, which is absolutely fine , as you are entitled to your opinion. However , you are giving here false hope because I have seen a few people in similar situation and were turned down. Adultery is grounds for denial!!! This marriage was clearly viable. Take a close look at the topic of the op posting.... did I see "affair while married"??? ... I believe so.

For your information my friend or her husband had no criminal background , she is a defence attorney so meeting the financial requirement was not an issue , her husband is a doctor and business man , she owns two houses , no overstays -nothing. Their only problem was having the affair which led to the breakdown of her previous marriage.

No point going any further with this conversation because it will not change anything. God bless you.

You've given no evidence to support your conclusion that because b followed a, b was "due to" a. Without understanding all the factors in the case, I cannot reliably conclude as you have. Your friend's husband got a notice from the Consulate stating the reason for the denial. I doubt it contained the word "adultery".

I don't think what you conclude has any bearing either. Have you ever seen what a denial form looks like? If so then you would already know that they do not give specifics, just that you were denied.

As far as peoples opinions go, well if it was not allowed in this forum then they should lock the topic. I am sure you can report it if you feel the need.

[pushbrk 12,908]

yes i agree with others , the consulate does not care about your past relationships or marriages. They care about now in the present make sure you have your divorce final with decree in your hand before filing any papers work with immigration. As long as it is a real relationship. Then your friend should not not be denied for past mariage.

It's reasonably safe to conclude a Consular officer won't make a big issue of having had an affair and illigitimate child with the foreign beneficiary but you can bet your britches they care about previous relationships for many other reasons. I don't see a worry here but your assertion bolded above is far to broad to be accurate.

yes i can understand what you are saying if there have been abuse or fraud in past relationships. thank you

Actually, the more common reason for concern is that the past relationship is currently ongoing and the petitioned relationship is a fraud. Past relationships, including what the parties know about their partner's past relationships often impact the evaluation of the bona fides of currently petitioned relationships.

Okay it seems like obtaining a Fiancé Visa with extramarital affair is not a problem. However, has anyone experienced any problem due to an extramarital affair in the AOS (adjustment of status) interview???? What I have read is that an extramarital affair that destroys an existing marriage is a 'crime involving moral turpitude' which may result in the denial at AOS. Any thoughts?

I agree with you a 100% . My friend's husband was denied of a visa due to the fact that they were involved in a relationship before the divorce.They tried everything to convince the c/o but it did not work. I am not gonna judge here but I personally think that it is wrong to get involved with a married man/woman.In a situation (mentioned by a previous poster) where they are separated,awaiting divorce is completely different.I told my friend that I was not sorry that her husband was denied.

Think about it.... who would want their husband/wife to meet someone else and end the marriage? ... none of us !!!! This is a SIN....THE BIBLE TELLS US SO!!!!

The moralizing aside, this sounds like "post hoc, ergo propter hoc" logic to me. Your friend was involved in a relationship before the divorce. Later, her husband was denied a visa. Fact number three, is that adultry isn't a grounds for denying a visa, at least in and of itself, no matter how wrong anybody thinks adultry is.

I supect the "due to" is incorrect and the real reason for denial is a combination of more complicated factors.

You are missing the whole point!!! I am not posting here based on what I have been told because I have seen the evidence for myself. You are the one that is being judgemental here. Maybe you don't have a problem with it, which is absolutely fine , as you are entitled to your opinion. However , you are giving here false hope because I have seen a few people in similar situation and were turned down. Adultery is grounds for denial!!! This marriage was clearly viable. Take a close look at the topic of the op posting.... did I see "affair while married"??? ... I believe so.

For your information my friend or her husband had no criminal background , she is a defence attorney so meeting the financial requirement was not an issue , her husband is a doctor and business man , she owns two houses , no overstays -nothing. Their only problem was having the affair which led to the breakdown of her previous marriage.

No point going any further with this conversation because it will not change anything. God bless you.

You've given no evidence to support your conclusion that because b followed a, b was "due to" a. Without understanding all the factors in the case, I cannot reliably conclude as you have. Your friend's husband got a notice from the Consulate stating the reason for the denial. I doubt it contained the word "adultery".

I don't think what you conclude has any bearing either. Have you ever seen what a denial form looks like? If so then you would already know that they do not give specifics, just that you were denied.

As far as peoples opinions go, well if it was not allowed in this forum then they should lock the topic. I am sure you can report it if you feel the need.

Yes, I've seen a number of them and it is true they often are not specific but they would be specific enough to draw a reliable conclusion as to whether "the reason" was adultery. The CO didn't suspect adultery. I suspect they suspected something else like the relationship wasn't bona fide. Of course there's every chance they suspected wrong.

[morocco4ever 63]

Some will state that they don't believe the relationship is Bonafide, but that is far from being specific enough to say they give you any concrete proof. Even in the Notice of Intent to Revoke do they give you real and valid reasons, and they are not always what the real reason was for the denial. Mine stated that their were no family or friends at the wedding. Interestingly he saw the pictures of the wedding and saw the guests. Never once did he ask who they were. So do you think that this was the reason for our denial? I do know what it was, and it was not mentioned in the 221g, nor was it on the Notice of Intent to Revoke. You are right about one thing, we don't have the specifics of their denial, so we don't know. It may be Infidelity, it may not. But wouldn't it be better to give advise that would prepare the OP to provide proof concerning the infidelity rather than tell him that he is okey dokey?

[chavelle 6]

Some will state that they don't believe the relationship is Bonafide, but that is far from being specific enough to say they give you any concrete proof. Even in the Notice of Intent to Revoke do they give you real and valid reasons, and they are not always what the real reason was for the denial. Mine stated that their were no family or friends at the wedding. Interestingly he saw the pictures of the wedding and saw the guests. Never once did he ask who they were. So do you think that this was the reason for our denial? I do know what it was, and it was not mentioned in the 221g, nor was it on the Notice of Intent to Revoke. You are right about one thing, we don't have the specifics of their denial, so we don't know. It may be Infidelity, it may not. But wouldn't it be better to give advise that would prepare the OP to provide proof concerning the infidelity rather than tell him that he is okey dokey?

Well said!! . They even told him that he caused my friend's marriage to fail. He told my friend that they only asked him two questions that were not in relation to the affair.They can deny anyone they wanna deny.My friend /husband had no other problems that would have caused the denial.

[pushbrk 12,908]

Some will state that they don't believe the relationship is Bonafide, but that is far from being specific enough to say they give you any concrete proof. Even in the Notice of Intent to Revoke do they give you real and valid reasons, and they are not always what the real reason was for the denial. Mine stated that their were no family or friends at the wedding. Interestingly he saw the pictures of the wedding and saw the guests. Never once did he ask who they were. So do you think that this was the reason for our denial? I do know what it was, and it was not mentioned in the 221g, nor was it on the Notice of Intent to Revoke. You are right about one thing, we don't have the specifics of their denial, so we don't know. It may be Infidelity, it may not. But wouldn't it be better to give advise that would prepare the OP to provide proof concerning the infidelity rather than tell him that he is okey dokey?

Well said!! . They even told him that he caused my friend's marriage to fail. He told my friend that they only asked him two questions that were not in relation to the affair.They can deny anyone they wanna deny.My friend /husband had no other problems that would have caused the denial.

Why would anybody want to show proof of infidelity? There's no reason that would help. Generally, a fiance or spouse should be prepared to tell the truth about their own relationship and be familiar enough with their partner's past relationships to accurately discuss them if asked. The purpose of such questions is not to uncover adultery. It's to assist in assessing the bona fides.

[ladybee 0]

The only thing i have to say is everyone situation is different, Some people get approved some dont.We simply dont know who we will get to interview us. Yes a denial letter never tells us the real reasons, but I believe truly in your heart of hearts people know the actual reasons why and dont want to say. They dont get approved. So think about it , It depends on the consulate. I have seen people had affairs married the foriegn person get approved and get greencard and living happy 10-15 years together. So what is the problem? Its not right but some people get past it. We cant help who we fall in love with.

[pushbrk 12,908]

The only thing i have to say is everyone situation is different, Some people get approved some dont.We simply dont know who we will get to interview us. Yes a denial letter never tells us the real reasons, but I believe truly in your heart of hearts people know the actual reasons why and dont want to say. They dont get approved. So think about it , It depends on the consulate. I have seen people had affairs married the foriegn person get approved and get greencard and living happy 10-15 years together. So what is the problem? Its not right but some people get past it. We cant help who we fall in love with.

You are right on many counts but I would disagree with the assertion, "We can't help who we fall in love with." Some people exercise no control over their behavior and DON'T "help who THEY fall in love with" but the vast majority of humans in the world absolutely control who they fall in love with. Fiance and Spouse visa cases are successful regardless of adultery because people aren't perfect or expected to be, not because "We can't help who we fall in love with."

[ladybee 0]

OK pushbrk

[ladybee 0]

i nor agree or disagree with this comment,

disclaimer : these are my opinions only and only pretain to me and what I have known these remarks are not made to be taken as personel advice to anyone. Unless the person feels the need to take. :innocent:

[morocco4ever 63]

I guess it would be better to hide the fact that you had an adulterous affair isn't it? Afterall, the CO's do not have brains and can not calculate the fact that the couple had a child was 2 years old before the divorce. Silly me.

Call me strange, but I stand by my initial opinion that they need to be prepared. NEVER assume that they won't think anything is of consequence. I never thought the fact that my husband has a sister here in the US would be an issue, but it was.

Bee, I have to disagree with you when you stated that people have ideas as to why they were denied. There isn't always a clue as to what the denial was. We were lucky in the fact that the questions they asked my husband had to do with his sister that lives in the US, why she is divorced (she isn't) and when was the first time that I spoke to her,and did she arrange our marriage. We kind of figured after their confusion on her marital status, and suggestions that she arranged the marriage, that this is what I needed to address when we received the NOIR. In the NOIR it didn't say anything about the sister, but I addressed it in my rebuttal anyway. They returned my rebuttal to my husband on his second interview and on it was a sticky note in the section addressing his sister. The sticky note stated "his sister". Pretty obvious, and I am glad that I included it. However I do know of many couples that were denied that had no questions pertaining to anything of consequence. There have been a select few that have either fought it, or refiled, and have one their cases. They to this day don't have a clue as to why they were initially denied.

Final thought, I find it interesting that someone can actually choose who they fall in love with. My personal thought is that someone who is that much in control of the heart is also one who doesn't fall into the deep intense love. Why in the world would anyone look for someone from a different country considering the stress, time, and money involved? Why wouldn't you pick someone from here in the states? I guess if you couldn't find anyone here in the states that was interested in you it would make sense, but other than that oh heck no! Too hard on the heart for my taste!

[pushbrk 12,908]

Final thought, I find it interesting that someone can actually choose who they fall in love with. My personal thought is that someone who is that much in control of the heart is also one who doesn't fall into the deep intense love. Why in the world would anyone look for someone from a different country considering the stress, time, and money involved? Why wouldn't you pick someone from here in the states? I guess if you couldn't find anyone here in the states that was interested in you it would make sense, but other than that oh heck no! Too hard on the heart for my taste!

You choose who you fall in love with by choosing when, where and under what circumstances you will make such feelings available. I might find my friend's wife attractive or even feel some mutual chemistry but I'm in total control of how I respond to those feelings and certainly whether I fall in love with her. Humans control what they decide to control and leave to outside influences, those things they either choose not to control or fail to address.

Some people are in such control of their emotions that when they are in a committed relationship, they don't feel attraction for others. This is more a level of commitment than of emotion. Others allow their lives to be blown to and fro at the whims of their unbridled emotions.

Anybody who knows me would tell you I'm quite emotional and that I've loved deeply and been hurt deeply as a result. At the same time, I'll tell you I chose with whom I fell in love, each and every time. Some chose and some do not.

[rrobin 2]

Morocco4ever,

Thanks for sharing your experience. I agree with you that one should be well prepared for the interview. But at the same time I am confused after reading your post. Can they just deny you based on their misunderstanding if your sister were divorced or not. If they deny people based on such illogical and unrelated things then it's pretty scary.

Do you guys (you and your wife) come from different ethnicities? Did you sister overstayed? Did your sister not attend the wedding? Were they suspecting your sister of "fixing" your marriage? Do you think someone wrongly tipped off USCIS regarding your marriage? Don't you think there must be more it rather than the marital status of your sister? Do you know, based on the two interviews, what were they suspecting you of?

[morocco4ever 63]

Final thought, I find it interesting that someone can actually choose who they fall in love with. My personal thought is that someone who is that much in control of the heart is also one who doesn't fall into the deep intense love. Why in the world would anyone look for someone from a different country considering the stress, time, and money involved? Why wouldn't you pick someone from here in the states? I guess if you couldn't find anyone here in the states that was interested in you it would make sense, but other than that oh heck no! Too hard on the heart for my taste!

You choose who you fall in love with by choosing when, where and under what circumstances you will make such feelings available. I might find my friend's wife attractive or even feel some mutual chemistry but I'm in total control of how I respond to those feelings and certainly whether I fall in love with her. Humans control what they decide to control and leave to outside influences, those things they either choose not to control or fail to address.

Some people are in such control of their emotions that when they are in a committed relationship, they don't feel attraction for others. This is more a level of commitment than of emotion. Others allow their lives to be blown to and fro at the whims of their unbridled emotions.

Anybody who knows me would tell you I'm quite emotional and that I've loved deeply and been hurt deeply as a result. At the same time, I'll tell you I chose with whom I fell in love, each and every time. Some chose and some do not.

Hogwash. Maybe for you, but you can't lump us together. If I selected who I fell in love with why in the world didn't I fall for the men I dated with money and status? Why did I fall for a man that lived in a third world country that had nothing. Your logic only makes sense to one who is totally ruled by your head and not your heart. Don't catagorize people by the way you think.

[morocco4ever 63]

Morocco4ever,

Thanks for sharing your experience. I agree with you that one should be well prepared for the interview. But at the same time I am confused after reading your post. Can they just deny you based on their misunderstanding if your sister were divorced or not. If they deny people based on such illogical and unrelated things then it's pretty scary.

Do you guys (you and your wife) come from different ethnicities? Did you sister overstayed? Did your sister not attend the wedding? Were they suspecting your sister of "fixing" your marriage? Do you think someone wrongly tipped off USCIS regarding your marriage? Don't you think there must be more it rather than the marital status of your sister? Do you know, based on the two interviews, what were they suspecting you of?

First off I am the wife, and the USC. They can deny based on anything they choose. Our case was pretty simple, but we had one red flag that would have caused us problems, but we also had proof that it was not an issue. I honestly think the cases are reviewed in advance, and most of the time a decision is made in advance. I believe we had ample proof of a bonafide relationship, and that initially ours was going to be approved. He asked one question that was more than obvious started the problem. He asked if he had family in the US. He told them he had an ex brother in law and a sister. Now thinking like a CO that would make them think that these 2 were married, but that isn't the case. He asked my husband why they got divorced and he tryed to explain that these 2 were never married, but the damage was done. The truth is that his sister came on a fiance visa and married her current husband. They are both Moroccan. His ex brother in law was married to his other sister. He is also Moroccan. This sister has never been to the US. Now the CO thought that she had married a US citizen for the greencard then got divorced. So then the questions started, when was the first time your wife talked to your sister, how often do they talk, did she arrange the marriage. That line of questioning told me everything I needed to know.

I had actually contacted a lawyer that is very skilled in returned petitions. I told him the entire story and told him of our evidence. He told me that I had a really strong case and there was nothing more he could do to help me other than organize my papers. With that I decided to fight it alone. It took almost an entire year after his denial before the USCIS would even pick up our case. But once they received my rebuttal to the NOIR it was only a week before the reaffirmed the case, then it was sent back to Morocco for a second interview. The second interview was nothing like the first. They didn't ask one question, just asked for updated forms and poof the visa was approved. He came in Dec of 2006 and has his 10 year greencard. This had to have been one of the worst things either of us has ever had to deal with. I am grateful to have it behind us.

I hope this explains why I think this OP needs to be prepared. Who would think something this insignificant could have escalated to the nightmare we faced. I believe that with the initial petition, either the I-129f or the I-130 should have a cover letter attached that explains the entire relationship and addresses all red flags. I started this process with absolutely no knowledge of what I was doing, but I have quickly become very educated in returned petitions. If I can help just one person to avoid the mess we dealt with then I can be one happy woman. No one with a bonifide relationship should ever have to deal with what we dealt with.