Death penalty upheld for Orange County white supremacist

[alienlovechild 75]

So according to your "logic"... if I oppose the death penalty I have to go and stand outside a prison with a candle in my hand singing hymns or something??? Wow, your sense of civic duty and legal matters is impressive. And here I am, thinkins one way to go about it is voting for elected representatives who share my belief in this and other issues. ....

It's a waste of time for you to vote. I'll be voting and cancelling out your vote so it, too, is another empty gesture.

The key thing is you believe the death penalty is so wrong that you would do something to stop it if you thought it would the stop execution. This also means even if the criminal was a racist, a serial killer or wiped out your family you would stop his execution if you could. It bothers me that anti-death penalty people can't say that outright to defend their beliefs. Why the evasion on a simple point you believe in?

The candle bit was just a symbolic point. If you can't hold a stupid candle in defense of some murderer what's to say you would do anything else?

[desert_fox 32]

The Death Penalty is an absolute (you can't bring them back to life once you kill them), so I'm not sure what you're grabbing at. What I meant by absolute mentality is the notion that you demonstrated earlier, by asking Len since she's against the Death Penalty then would she participate in a candlelight vigil for this convict? You're trying to intellectualize a snide remark that only regards the extremes - "you either hate this convict or you love him." Whether you want to acknowledge the fact or not, that's called looking at things in black and white.

That's the idea.

[jundp 191]

Well said. I don't undertand this mentality of absolutes - if you don't want the f##ker to fry, then you must not be appalled by his heinous crime....but I guess it comes from the fact that I don't see life in black and white contrasts.

Oh, so there cases you'd advocate for the death penalty? Where's your "gray" area here?

Nope. But I wonder, are you "anti-choice" when it comes to abortion?

Hitler was part Jewish also.

That's a myth, or a theory, and one that cannot be proven. It is far more likely that Hitler hid his grandfather's paternity/illegitimacy because of the likelihood of mental illness, not because there was Jewish blood. It's true that his great grandmother worked for a wealthy Jewish family when she became pregnant out of wedlock, but there's no proof anywhere that the father was Jewish.

I think it's one of those fake-ironic points people like to use when referring to the Holocaust. I think what happened was bad enough on its own...

The candle bit was just a symbolic point. If you can't hold a stupid candle in defense of some murderer what's to say you would do anything else?

Really? Your argument here is quite full of fallacies. How on earth does holding a candle have anything at all to do with someone's belief system? I also won't picket outside an abortion clinic and scream "Baby MURDERER" to a woman going in. Am I then not allowed to hold the belief that abortion is wrong?

Is it unacceptable to be pro-life...all the way around? Must I hold candles and sing "Kumbayah"? (I have no idea how that's spelled, btw)

[IAMX 3,055]

Is it unacceptable to be pro-life...all the way around? Must I hold candles and sing "Kumbayah"? (I have no idea how that's spelled, btw)

No, but it does seem interesting to me that you cherrypick which life to you is "sacred". What's the logic to this?

Choose to protect an unborn child who has no control over their own fate, while removing the rights of the mother who does. That sure makes sense to me! Why don't I just tell the mother my beliefs and make her follow them.

Killing a person just because they were convicted of murder. Or whatever else you'd like to kill people for. Like being convicted of rape, perhaps. Nonetheless, there's no perfect system of convictions and innocent people are convicted. When that happens, an innocent United States citizen has been executed by the state. Of course, I'm assuming you'd be fine with this, so someone who is living and not in a womb at the behest of someone else doesn't get to live.

Hy-po-cri-sy. These beliefs are laden with it.

[Peikko 1,575]

Actually, I think you'll find Jundp doens't believe in the death penalty as an appropriate punishment. I might be wrong, but I think this poster is both pro life (on a personal basis) and anti-death penalty. I have a great respect for this point of view even though I am pro choice, which isn't the same as pro abortion.

[jundp 191]

Actually, I think you'll find Jundp doens't believe in the death penalty as an appropriate punishment. I might be wrong, but I think this poster is both pro life (on a personal basis) and anti-death penalty. I have a great respect for this point of view even though I am pro choice, which isn't the same as pro abortion.

Yes, this is what I believe.

@SRVT: I do not believe that overturning Roe v Wade will do anything but cause more death in this country. I also would never condemn a woman for choosing to have an abortion. Morally and ethically being opposed to killing (whether it's government-advocated or not) doesn't mean that I am cherry picking.

I also don't understand how I'm being a hypocrite. In my opinion, life is sacred and a gift. How is being anti-death penalty and pro-life on the abortion stance make me a hypocrite? If anything, I would think someone who opposes abortion but is pro-death penalty would be the hypocritical one.

[IAMX 3,055]

Actually, I think you'll find Jundp doens't believe in the death penalty as an appropriate punishment. I might be wrong, but I think this poster is both pro life (on a personal basis) and anti-death penalty. I have a great respect for this point of view even though I am pro choice, which isn't the same as pro abortion.

Yes, this is what I believe.

@SRVT: I do not believe that overturning Roe v Wade will do anything but cause more death in this country. I also would never condemn a woman for choosing to have an abortion. Morally and ethically being opposed to killing (whether it's government-advocated or not) doesn't mean that I am cherry picking.

I also don't understand how I'm being a hypocrite. In my opinion, life is sacred and a gift. How is being anti-death penalty and pro-life on the abortion stance make me a hypocrite? If anything, I would think someone who opposes abortion but is pro-death penalty would be the hypocritical one.

Is there anyone here who is pro-abortion? (to the bolded)

Anyways, it has nothing to do with the moral grounds for abortion and the death penalty that get my ire for hypocrisy, it's completely ignoring the fact that one has to suppress the right of a woman the choice of expel something from her own body (regardless of another person's views of how sacred their fetus is), in which this moral haughtiness is 100% hypocritical. Unfortunately, this is the pro-life stance, even though you do admit it will cause more killing, which it would. It's only considered killing to you, and yes, even to me, as I wouldn't advocate anyone do it, but it likely isn't considered killing to someone who performs one in the circumstance, of, say, not wanting to go through a pregnancy in order to finish college or be in a better financial position to be able to properly raise a kid. Morals are entirely subjective, and while it is a rarity that you're somewhat taking a look at both sides of the coin, the reality is moral pushers are causing a conflict with enforcing their views of a fetus and life upon women. Same thing with the pro-death penalty stance, which is even more typical of pro-life'ers, enforcing one's views of life for a fetus, against a woman, and enforcing their views of justice against people and wanting them killed by the government. By association, you're not in good company.

[jundp 191]

But I'm ok with "not being in good company."

I can't change my personal moral code of ethics, which is that killing is wrong. Nor do I apologize for it.

I don't refer to myself as pro-choice (nor am I in any way saying that people who do are "pro-abortion" - that's crazy), because I'm not. I don't think it should be a choice PERSONALLY however it is in this country and it should remain so because to revert to the days before a woman had this choice is inconceivable in my eyes.

I know it's not a popular idea, and my fellow Democrats have a hard time understanding my POV, but I think choosing an abortion is wrong. The difference between keeping abortion legal and keeping the death penalty legal, IMO, is this: the death penalty is supposed to be a form of punishment. Yet it's not. It's legalized, government-advocated murder. I accept the argument that a fetus has no rights and the woman does, I don't agree with it, but I accept it. I don't accept the argument that capital punishment is punishment.

ETA: to the comment about abortion not be killing to one who chooses it to finish college, etc (I'm paraphrasing): it's still killing and the alternative is adoption. I know all the arguments for a woman not choosing the alternative, but there is still an alternative. Rape or incest is a different story. "Oops I got preggers and I want to finish college" is selfish. But again, not my place to judge.

Edited August 30, 2008 by jundp

[britty 1]

fry him. he's a cold blooded murderer and won't serve any purpose alive.

[Ban Hammer 13,356]

Actually, I think you'll find Jundp doens't believe in the death penalty as an appropriate punishment. I might be wrong, but I think this poster is both pro life (on a personal basis) and anti-death penalty. I have a great respect for this point of view even though I am pro choice, which isn't the same as pro abortion.

Yes, this is what I believe.

@SRVT: I do not believe that overturning Roe v Wade will do anything but cause more death in this country. I also would never condemn a woman for choosing to have an abortion. Morally and ethically being opposed to killing (whether it's government-advocated or not) doesn't mean that I am cherry picking.

I also don't understand how I'm being a hypocrite. In my opinion, life is sacred and a gift. How is being anti-death penalty and pro-life on the abortion stance make me a hypocrite? If anything, I would think someone who opposes abortion but is pro-death penalty would be the hypocritical one.

i'm with you there on overturning rvw.

but this azzhat in the op still needs to meet his maker soonest.

[IAMX 3,055]

fry him. he's a cold blooded murderer and won't serve any purpose alive.

I agree, and if an innocent person is murdered, the population is guilty and all should be executed. Eye for an eye, and fair is fair.

[britty 1]

fry him. he's a cold blooded murderer and won't serve any purpose alive.

I agree, and if an innocent person is murdered, the population is guilty and all should be executed. Eye for an eye, and fair is fair.

I'm glad you agree.

[Tunisia216 2]

Let's just hope he doesn't get the pleasure of sitting on death row for years and years eating up tax money

[Ban Hammer 13,356]

fry him. he's a cold blooded murderer and won't serve any purpose alive.

I agree, and if an innocent person is murdered, the population is guilty and all should be executed. Eye for an eye, and fair is fair.

[Peikko 1,575]

Some people have a funny idea of what pleasure entails. Death row doesn't strike me as a pleasurable experience.