Death penalty upheld for Orange County white supremacist

[one...two...tree 2,762]

If that really would achieve something in terms of changing the justice system yes but not as some empty gesture. However candlelight vigils are probably not very effective.

Well said. I don't undertand this mentality of absolutes - if you don't want the f##ker to fry, then you must not be appalled by his heinous crime....but I guess it comes from the fact that I don't see life in black and white contrasts.

[Ban Hammer 13,356]

ya'll bring the candles, i'll bring the gas.

[tmma 467]

If that really would achieve something in terms of changing the justice system yes but not as some empty gesture. However candlelight vigils are probably not very effective.

Well said. I don't undertand this mentality of absolutes - if you don't want the f##ker to fry, then you must not be appalled by his heinous crime....but I guess it comes from the fact that I don't see life in black and white contrasts.

Some "absolutes" are unavoidable..... If a crime has been committed, a punishment will have to follow. That's pretty absolute and black and white to me......

If you do not agree with the State law in this case, what would be a suitable punishment?

[alienlovechild 75]

Well said. I don't undertand this mentality of absolutes - if you don't want the f##ker to fry, then you must not be appalled by his heinous crime....but I guess it comes from the fact that I don't see life in black and white contrasts.

Oh, so there cases you'd advocate for the death penalty? Where's your "gray" area here?

[one...two...tree 2,762]

If that really would achieve something in terms of changing the justice system yes but not as some empty gesture. However candlelight vigils are probably not very effective.

Well said. I don't undertand this mentality of absolutes - if you don't want the f##ker to fry, then you must not be appalled by his heinous crime....but I guess it comes from the fact that I don't see life in black and white contrasts.

Some "absolutes" are unavoidable..... If a crime has been committed, a punishment will have to follow. That's pretty absolute and black and white to me......

If you do not agree with the State law in this case, what would be a suitable punishment?

For a heinous crime like what this guy did - life in prison without parole. Everything I've read about capital punishment has convinced me that it serves no purpose to society.

[panamania79 2]

The California Supreme Court upholds the ruling in the case of Gunner Lindberg, the first person in the state condemned to die for a racially motivated murder.

By Mike Anton, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer

The California Supreme Court has upheld the death penalty for a self-proclaimed white supremacist from Orange County who was the first person in the state condemned to die for a racially motivated murder.

Gunner Lindberg, 33, was convicted in the 1996 slaying of Thien Minh Ly, 24, who was stabbed more than 50 times and had his throat slashed.

Lindberg was convicted in Orange County Superior Court of first-degree murder with a special circumstance that the crime was based on the victim's race. Lindberg's attorney sought to have the special circumstance overturned on appeal because of lack of evidence.

But the state high court ruled Thursday that "the evidence overwhelmingly showed that defendant was a racist who regarded non-Whites as subhuman and who, by his own admission, callously murdered victim Ly 'for (the) racial movement'."

Ly was in-line skating on a tennis court at Tustin High School when he was attacked by Lindberg and an accomplice.

In an obscenity-laced letter to a cousin full of misspellings and grammatical errors, Lindberg nonchalantly wrote, using an epithet: "Oh, I killed a ... a while ago."

"I stabbed him in the side about 7 or 8 times he rolled over a little so I stabbed his back about 18 or 19 times then he layed flat and I slit one side of his throught on his jugular vain," Lindberg wrote. "Oh, the sounds the guy was making were like uhhh..."

Authorities also found racist materials, including anti-Semitic paraphernalia, in Lindberg's Tustin apartment.

Ly was a graduate of UCLA and Georgetown University whose goal was to become U.S. ambassador to Vietnam.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-de...story?track=rss

Hitler was part Jewish also.

[alienlovechild 75]

For a heinous crime like what this guy did - life in prison without parole. Everything I've read about capital punishment has convinced me that it serves no purpose to society.

I'll take that you're black and white on the death penalty and it's absolutely wrong in every case?

You're probably right. The lovely conditions in U.S. prisons are a far better punishment. Keep 'em in there until we have hordes of old guys dying. That should be a great scene for international opinion.

Gotta love those human warehouses.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

For a heinous crime like what this guy did - life in prison without parole. Everything I've read about capital punishment has convinced me that it serves no purpose to society.

I'll take that you're black and white on the death penalty and it's absolutely wrong in every case?

You're probably right. The lovely conditions in U.S. prisons are a far better punishment. Keep 'em in there until we have hordes of old guys dying. That should be a great scene for international opinion.

Gotta love those human warehouses.

The Death Penalty is an absolute (you can't bring them back to life once you kill them), so I'm not sure what you're grabbing at. What I meant by absolute mentality is the notion that you demonstrated earlier, by asking Len since she's against the Death Penalty then would she participate in a candlelight vigil for this convict? You're trying to intellectualize a snide remark that only regards the extremes - "you either hate this convict or you love him." Whether you want to acknowledge the fact or not, that's called looking at things in black and white.

[tmma 467]

If that really would achieve something in terms of changing the justice system yes but not as some empty gesture. However candlelight vigils are probably not very effective.

Well said. I don't undertand this mentality of absolutes - if you don't want the f##ker to fry, then you must not be appalled by his heinous crime....but I guess it comes from the fact that I don't see life in black and white contrasts.

Some "absolutes" are unavoidable..... If a crime has been committed, a punishment will have to follow. That's pretty absolute and black and white to me......

If you do not agree with the State law in this case, what would be a suitable punishment?

For a heinous crime like what this guy did - life in prison without parole. Everything I've read about capital punishment has convinced me that it serves no purpose to society.

Ok, ......"It serves NO purpose in society"...sounds absolute to me.

..What about justice for victims......?

Enough CRIMINAL justice! Victims deserve the criminal to be made to face the punishment for the crime he/she committed, wether it's death, life in prison or whatever.

Different prisons for different crimes, maybe? Festering dungheaps for the heinous crimes and Motel 6's for the lessor ones........???

Either way, the law is what it is.....Elected officials in some States have voted FOR the DP. That's the law. If the folks want that change in their State, they need to rally and elect anti-DP law-makers.

Edited August 30, 2008 by tmma

[one...two...tree 2,762]

If that really would achieve something in terms of changing the justice system yes but not as some empty gesture. However candlelight vigils are probably not very effective.

Well said. I don't undertand this mentality of absolutes - if you don't want the f##ker to fry, then you must not be appalled by his heinous crime....but I guess it comes from the fact that I don't see life in black and white contrasts.

Some "absolutes" are unavoidable..... If a crime has been committed, a punishment will have to follow. That's pretty absolute and black and white to me......

If you do not agree with the State law in this case, what would be a suitable punishment?

For a heinous crime like what this guy did - life in prison without parole. Everything I've read about capital punishment has convinced me that it serves no purpose to society.

Ok, ......"It serves NO purpose in society"...sounds absolute to me.

..What about justice for victims......?

Enough CRIMINAL justice! Victims deserve the criminal to be made to face the punishment for the crime he/she committed, wether it's death, life in prison or whatever.

Different prisons for different crimes, maybe? Festering dungheaps for the heinous crimes and Motel 6's for the lessor ones........???

Either way, the law is what it is.....Elected officials in some States have voted FOR the DP. That's the law. If the folks want that change in their State, they need to rally and elect anti-DP law-makers.

Well for one, we know that many who were on Death Row, were in fact later found innocent - so that means as long as we have the Death Penalty, we can assume that a certain percentage of people we put to death are actually innocent.....that doesn't sit over too well with me or my vision of America.

[alienlovechild 75]

The Death Penalty is an absolute (you can't bring them back to life once you kill them), so I'm not sure what you're grabbing at.

It very simple. If you oppose the death in all cases it's an absolute. If you never it eat a jelly donut or always pickup a penny on the ground, those are absolutes, too. Always and never statements are absolutes in value judgments.

You're trying to intellectualize a snide remark that only regards the extremes - "you either hate this convict or you love him." Whether you want to acknowledge the fact or not, that's called looking at things in black and white.

I think you said black/white and absolutist beliefs are something you don't believe in or cannot understand. You don't understand you absolutely (sorry about the pun) contradicted yourself by indeed saying capital punishment is always wrong.

I said nothing about "loving" the criminal but you keep talking about it.

The reality is you back the harshest punishment of life without parole and are willing to accept worsening conditions in prisons as an alternative to the death penalty. Let 'em die slow, go mad in isolation or tear each other apart. The prison system makes you proud to be an American, right?

Edited August 30, 2008 by alienlovechild

[one...two...tree 2,762]

The Death Penalty is an absolute (you can't bring them back to life once you kill them), so I'm not sure what you're grabbing at.

It very simple. If you oppose the death in all cases it's an absolute. If you never it eat a jelly donut or always pickup a penny on the ground, those are absolutes, too. Always and never statements are absolutes in value judgments.

You're trying to intellectualize a snide remark that only regards the extremes - "you either hate this convict or you love him." Whether you want to acknowledge the fact or not, that's called looking at things in black and white.

I think you said black/white and absolutist beliefs are something you don't believe in or cannot understand. You don't understand you absolutely (sorry about the pun) contradicted yourself by indeed saying capital punishment is always wrong.

I said nothing about "loving" the criminal but you keep talking about it.

The reality is you back the harshest punishment of life without parole and are willing to accept worsening conditions in prisons as an alternative to the death penalty. Let 'em die slow, go mad in isolation or tear each other apart. The prison system makes you proud to be an American, right

Well then I apologize for misleading you to the context of what I meant by absolute mentality. To me that doesn't mean you can't remain firm to a position for all cases. If you re-read carefully what I was referring to, you'll see that I'm talking about this idea that there are only two sides to every issue, or two polar opposite positions to a situation. I think most people who would read your comment about having a candle vigil for the convict as implying that Len shows sympathy for the convict rather than sympathy for the victim. This type of thinking gets repeated, over and over, everytime someone commits a heinous crime. There's a bit of intellectual bullying going on towards anyone who doesn't advocate putting such a criminal to death...as if, not condoning the Death Penalty is an act of sympathy.

[alienlovechild 75]

Did you you know life without parole doesn't exist in most countries and most countries won't give it to minors (they will released later)? That makes you a real law and order type by international standards. Almost dare I say. . . gulp . . . a conservative!

"In countries where death penalty has been abolished, life imprisonment is the maximum punishment for committing the most horrific of crimes. In most jurisdictions, however, life imprisonment does not necessarily imply a whole life in prison and lifers may be released after serving a substantial portion of their sentence, based on several mitigating factors. However, in a country like India, where death penalty is still in use, it's assumed that being a lesser punishment, life imprisonment is less retributive and more reformative in nature.

International norms

When it comes to life imprisonment, there are no set, fully developed international standards. But, international human rights law allows the imposition of life sentences only in the most serious crimes and prohibits the use of Life Imprisonment without Parole (LWOP)."

http://www.indiatogether.org/2008/jun/hrt-lifejail.htm

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Here....take the poll:

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...t&p=2168115

[Chica Yeyé 41]

I didn't say I condone his actions. I said I am against the death penalty. Learn to read now, will you?

Would you attend a candle vigil to protest Lindberg's execution?

So according to your "logic"... if I oppose the death penalty I have to go and stand outside a prison with a candle in my hand singing hymns or something??? Wow, your sense of civic duty and legal matters is impressive. And here I am, thinkins one way to go about it is voting for elected representatives who share my belief in this and other issues. ....