GOP platform calls for constitutional abortion ban

[HAL 9000 96]

Now there's an interesting form of population control to appease those that notice.

Ironically I am pro-choice yet- if I were a woman- I'd most likely NOT have the procedure done unless it was an absolute necessity.

Every parent should hypothetically love their children and yes... you are most likely biased by having a child and the blessings it brings. It should preclude, however, in the strictest legal sense... an imposition upon others that do not wish to carry a fetus to term.

Oh I completely agree that my feelings shouldn't bias my original stance on the issue. I still am pro-choice but now I am able to see with a bit more understanding how some people would find the procedure 'wrong'. Having gone through pregnancy and childbirth I can absolutely not even fathom the thought of FORCING someone to endure that when they don't want the child at all. My experience was about normal but I know that for some women it can be an absolutely horrible experience. Why force someone to go through with it, and have them grow to despise the child before it's even born? How is that good for the child? And honestly, if you're going to force every mother who ever gets pregnant to give birth, you're going to have a HUGE increase in the number of children put up for adoption, not even counting the ones that will be abandoned or worse at birth. So I guess everyone who's pro-life needs to make room in their life to take in one or two of the children they forced to be born.

That is also a very interesting solution. Are our friends that are willing to impose their religious views upon the rest of society willing to support these babies on a 1:1 basis? Are they also willing to handle the repercussions to society from all the associated ills bestowed upon by a tide of unwanted births? It would only be fair, after all.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Well there are also people who want to do away with welfare entirely, so I'm not sure what the solution should be here. Clearly - more unwanted children will require a greater degree of funding for child services as well as other support benefits.

I'm not sure of the reasoning behind forcing someone to go through with a pregnancy that they can't afford or provide for. It doesn't make a great deal of sense...

Edited August 27, 2008 by Number 6

[chri'stina 190]

Well there are a lot of couples who can't have babies and would want to adopt infants. What is probably stopping a lot of people right now is the cost of adopting and the wait. I worked at an adoption agency/law office for a short period and there was a huge waiting list of families who actually could afford it but there weren't enough babies for all. They'd wait long amounts of time to get to the adoption stage. One reason people are going international for adoptions is the price and availability compared to the US. So there are lots of people willing to adopt.

[Peikko 1,575]

I doubt there are many pro-choice supporters who would actually 'want' to have an abortion or indeed who believe this is a reliable and alternative form of birth control. It is a proceedure of last resort in terms of unwanted pregnancy or a life saving proceedure when the welfare of the mother is compromised by the pregnancy.

The answer to reducing unwanted pregnancies is always going to be better education.

Unwanted pregnancies should not really be some limitless source of babies for couples who can't produce their own. There are consequences for the child of being the product of an unwanted pregnancy no matter how loving a home they are placed in after adoption.

[chri'stina 190]

No, it shouldn't be some limitless source but the idea of a huge tide of unwanted babies in our society-- I think that's an exaggeration.

[HAL 9000 96]

Well there are a lot of couples who can't have babies and would want to adopt infants. What is probably stopping a lot of people right now is the cost of adopting and the wait. I worked at an adoption agency/law office for a short period and there was a huge waiting list of families who actually could afford it but there weren't enough babies for all. They'd wait long amounts of time to get to the adoption stage. One reason people are going international for adoptions is the price and availability compared to the US. So there are lots of people willing to adopt.

Good point. Do you have actual statistics on the number of willing couples at this moment? And also, then, why are orphanages and foster homes relatively overcrowded from state to state?

I doubt there are many pro-choice supporters who would actually 'want' to have an abortion or indeed who believe this is a reliable and alternative form of birth control. It is a proceedure of last resort in terms of unwanted pregnancy or a life saving proceedure when the welfare of the mother is compromised by the pregnancy.

The answer to reducing unwanted pregnancies is always going to be better education.

Unwanted pregnancies should not really be some limitless source of babies for couples who can't produce their own. There are consequences for the child of being the product of an unwanted pregnancy no matter how loving a home they are placed in after adoption.

We could also try the John Milton approach.

[LaL 418]

No, it shouldn't be some limitless source but the idea of a huge tide of unwanted babies in our society-- I think that's an exaggeration.

I loathe to step into this conversation, but I don't think it's an exaggeration. I have seen the inside of an abortion clinic while in operation (twice) and both times they were filled to the brim with women going through the motions (ie: different stages of the procedure). Right or wrong - just commenting on what I have seen and that it might be more widespread than one might think.

The shortage, I believe, is for infants that are white.

[chri'stina 190]

I would say the reason for full orphanages are that mostly people only want to adopt infants, which is sad but why should we judge people for that if we shouldn't judge if they want to abort a pregnancy.

Honestly I know neither side in this conversation is going to change their minds. I piped in because I felt like this voice needed to be heard instead of only people who agree with each other commenting about abortion in the beginning of this thread.

I don't currently have stats on the amt of couples willing to adopt though I know many personally and saw the files at the adoption agency and answered the several calls every day from people wanting info on how to adopt.

I found this old article from 2002, that's the best I can do right now.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_pwwi...ai_mark05048327

In the USA, there are approximately two million infertile couples waiting to adopt, many times regardless of the child's medical problems such as Down Syndrome, Spina Bifida, HIV infection or terminally ill. Dr. Brad Imler, President of America's Pregnancy Helpline, confirms the challenge of waiting couples by stating: "Only 1% of the Helpline's annual 40,000 clients inquires about adoption."

For over 20 years, November has been the designated month to raise awareness about adoption, adoptive families, and children who need adoptive homes. The need for adoption awareness is multi-facetted. Couples looking to adopt within the U.S. have the option of foster or infant adoption, or they can look abroad to similar options internationally. There are over 150,000 children and young people in foster care waiting for permanent homes. Because children in foster care often have emotional difficulties, the challenge of being adopted is increased. Infant adoption is desirable by many couples who want to experience the process of parenting from the point of birth. Infant adoption could become more common if potential birthmothers were aware that when placing for adoption, they would receive assistance during their pregnancy and they have the option of selecting the family that they place their child with. Birthmothers and couples looking at adoption can choose a plan that works for them.

America's Pregnancy Helpline is available daily to answer the questions of birthparents as well as adoptive families at 1-800-672-2296.

Adoption in America: - Stepparent adoption accounts for overhalf of adoptions in the U.S. - Foster adoption is the least expensive type of adoption. - About 54,500 unrelated domestic adoptions occur each year. - About 23,500 infant adoptions take place annually. - Currently 16,000 international adoptions take place approximately each year.

GETTING INVOLVED AND FINDING OUT MORE - Donate altar flowers in honor of the children waiting for families. - Send a donation to an adoption agency. - Donate books about adoption to your local library. - For information on adopting older children, visit www.adoption.org, and www.adopt.org. - For information on infant adoption visit www.gladney.org - Considering adoption? Visit www.thehelpline.org or call 1-800-672-2296.

Edited August 27, 2008 by Parivar CSK

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Also how many "optional" abortions are performed each year? Clearly there's going to be something of a population increase from this...

[Peikko 1,575]

I think the shortage in terms of overcrowding in orphanages is babies period. Adoption is really only desired when it comes to malleable babies, not children. Sorry, but that is the reality as I see it.

I think we should also try to educate people that being a parent is not the be all and end all of life. It's great for those who can, but those who can't should be able to live much happier and more fulfilled lives without becoming obsessed by something that has no easy solution.

[chri'stina 190]

I think the shortage in terms of overcrowding in orphanages is babies period. Adoption is really only desired when it comes to malleable babies, not children. Sorry, but that is the reality as I see it.

I think we should also try to educate people that being a parent is not the be all and end all of life. It's great for those who can, but those who can't should be able to live much happier and more fulfilled lives without becoming obsessed by something that has no easy solution.

I think it's easy to say that when you have children. (I have a baby too)

I don't think those people think it's the be all and end all, but it is wonderful and they want to have children.

[HAL 9000 96]

I would say the reason for full orphanages are that mostly people only want to adopt infants, which is sad but why should we judge people for that if we shouldn't judge if they want to abort a pregnancy.

Honestly I know neither side in this conversation is going to change their minds. I piped in because I felt like this voice needed to be heard instead of only people who agree with each other commenting about abortion in the beginning of this thread.

I don't currently have stats on the amt of couples willing to adopt though I know many personally and saw the files at the adoption agency and answered the several calls every day from people wanting info on how to adopt.

I found this old article from 2002, that's the best I can do right now.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_pwwi...ai_mark05048327

In the USA, there are approximately two million infertile couples waiting to adopt, many times regardless of the child's medical problems such as Down Syndrome, Spina Bifida, HIV infection or terminally ill. Dr. Brad Imler, President of America's Pregnancy Helpline, confirms the challenge of waiting couples by stating: "Only 1% of the Helpline's annual 40,000 clients inquires about adoption."

For over 20 years, November has been the designated month to raise awareness about adoption, adoptive families, and children who need adoptive homes. The need for adoption awareness is multi-facetted. Couples looking to adopt within the U.S. have the option of foster or infant adoption, or they can look abroad to similar options internationally. There are over 150,000 children and young people in foster care waiting for permanent homes. Because children in foster care often have emotional difficulties, the challenge of being adopted is increased. Infant adoption is desirable by many couples who want to experience the process of parenting from the point of birth. Infant adoption could become more common if potential birthmothers were aware that when placing for adoption, they would receive assistance during their pregnancy and they have the option of selecting the family that they place their child with. Birthmothers and couples looking at adoption can choose a plan that works for them.

America's Pregnancy Helpline is available daily to answer the questions of birthparents as well as adoptive families at 1-800-672-2296.

Adoption in America: - Stepparent adoption accounts for overhalf of adoptions in the U.S. - Foster adoption is the least expensive type of adoption. - About 54,500 unrelated domestic adoptions occur each year. - About 23,500 infant adoptions take place annually. - Currently 16,000 international adoptions take place approximately each year.

GETTING INVOLVED AND FINDING OUT MORE - Donate altar flowers in honor of the children waiting for families. - Send a donation to an adoption agency. - Donate books about adoption to your local library. - For information on adopting older children, visit www.adoption.org, and www.adopt.org. - For information on infant adoption visit www.gladney.org - Considering adoption? Visit www.thehelpline.org or call 1-800-672-2296.

Great info, thanks.

I do see certain preferences in play in many cases. Ironically they are ones that may be helped along by websites such as VJ due to the international nature of some adoptions by potential parents.

[Peikko 1,575]

I think the shortage in terms of overcrowding in orphanages is babies period. Adoption is really only desired when it comes to malleable babies, not children. Sorry, but that is the reality as I see it.

I think we should also try to educate people that being a parent is not the be all and end all of life. It's great for those who can, but those who can't should be able to live much happier and more fulfilled lives without becoming obsessed by something that has no easy solution.

I think it's easy to say that when you have children. (I have a baby too)

I don't think those people think it's the be all and end all, but it is wonderful and they want to have children.

It's not easy to say and it's not easy to enact either, particularly with some of the values that we have as a society. However, that is the truth for some people. However wonderful being a parent is, it's not going to happen for them and that should not mean that their lives become meaningless or even less fulfilled, just differently fulfilled.

[Scott & Lai 12]

I doubt there are many pro-choice supporters who would actually 'want' to have an abortion or indeed who believe this is a reliable and alternative form of birth control. It is a proceedure of last resort in terms of unwanted pregnancy or a life saving proceedure when the welfare of the mother is compromised by the pregnancy.

The answer to reducing unwanted pregnancies is always going to be better education.

Unwanted pregnancies should not really be some limitless source of babies for couples who can't produce their own. There are consequences for the child of being the product of an unwanted pregnancy no matter how loving a home they are placed in after adoption.

As a product of an unwanted pregnancy who was adopted at three years, I'm curious as to what those consequences are.

[Chica Yeyé 41]

I loathe to step into this conversation, but I don't think it's an exaggeration. I have seen the inside of an abortion clinic while in operation (twice) and both times they were filled to the brim with women going through the motions (ie: different stages of the procedure). Right or wrong - just commenting on what I have seen and that it might be more widespread than one might think.

The shortage, I believe, is for infants that are white.

And not only that sister LaL, also infants that are pretty looking and healthy. Few people are willing to adopt say crack-babies, or children with genetic defect and/or physical malformations.

I just don't buy the "have your baby at 14 and give it up for adoption" thing. But then again, I would never adopt a child and I am pro-choice. No doubts or qualms about it.

To each its own.