GOP platform calls for constitutional abortion ban

[chri'stina 190]

I'll try to say my point another way since it doesn't seem to be getting across. Why is abortion considered a religious issue only?

If murder and theft are something considered wrong irregardless of religion(duh, I'm not stupid), then I think abortion should be too. Something thought about more and the decision on whether it's a life or not is not just a religious issue. I saw the debate elsewhere in strictly biological terms. I don't think you have to have any faith at all to consider that abortion is getting rid of a life. Whether my faith adds to my passion on it, it still is a biological issue to be debated.

I know we are not a theocracy, and my point is why is abortion made such a religious issue and not a human rights and biological issue also.

If I still am not getting my point across, then I give up.

[Peikko 1,575]

You are arguing that you wish abortion was not a religious issue but founded the same principals that we use to argue that murder or theft are wrong. We already do but where you get stuck is that for you religious arguments top any other rationale. For others that's not true as argued in a post above, the issue of when a foetus aquires any sort of 'rights' is inextricably linked to whether the foetus can survive outside the womb and is partly a scientific argument.

Abortion is not a simple matter and there are no absolutes or simple solutions.

[chri'stina 190]

Honestly I am annoyed by the fact that people think that I think the only reason murder or theft is wrong here is because of the bible. Which is not what I said at all.

[jundp 191]

I believe abortion is murder.

I do not believe the government should have ANYTHING to do with abortions. Nor do I believe that Roe v Wade should be overthrown.

Honestly I am annoyed by the fact that people think that I think the only reason murder or theft is wrong here is because of the bible. Which is not what I said at all.

I understand what you were saying. You are saying that both of those are also mentioned in the bible, yet no one ever screams "YOU ARE A CRAZY RIGHT WING RELIGIOUS NUT!!!!11" if someone says that murder or theft is wrong. Am I reading ya right?

[HAL 9000 96]

Basically, what is the rationale for making abortion illegal? As it stands in those countries where it is currently illegal- is founded on religious doctrine. As it stood in this nation's past, what do you think the rationale came from?

FYI- the rationale for Roe vs Wade as it stood has a biological justification: biological viability.

[chri'stina 190]

I believe abortion is murder.

I do not believe the government should have ANYTHING to do with abortions. Nor do I believe that Roe v Wade should be overthrown.

Honestly I am annoyed by the fact that people think that I think the only reason murder or theft is wrong here is because of the bible. Which is not what I said at all.

I understand what you were saying. You are saying that both of those are also mentioned in the bible, yet no one ever screams "YOU ARE A CRAZY RIGHT WING RELIGIOUS NUT!!!!11" if someone says that murder or theft is wrong. Am I reading ya right?

Yes.

[HAL 9000 96]

I believe abortion is murder.

I do not believe the government should have ANYTHING to do with abortions. Nor do I believe that Roe v Wade should be overthrown.

Honestly I am annoyed by the fact that people think that I think the only reason murder or theft is wrong here is because of the bible. Which is not what I said at all.

I understand what you were saying. You are saying that both of those are also mentioned in the bible, yet no one ever screams "YOU ARE A CRAZY RIGHT WING RELIGIOUS NUT!!!!11" if someone says that murder or theft is wrong. Am I reading ya right?

Yes.

Then perhaps all that is needed is a better understanding of biological viability inside the womb.

[Dan J 277]

Honestly I am annoyed by the fact that people think that I think the only reason murder or theft is wrong here is because of the bible. Which is not what I said at all.

Your point relies on defining a fetus as a completely separate individual. I'm sure you believe that too. But there are many would disagree since a fetus is not biologically viable as a separate individual until about the third trimester. Which is why there is less opposition to bans on third trimester abortions, than there are for first and second trimester abortion.

[HAL 9000 96]

Honestly I am annoyed by the fact that people think that I think the only reason murder or theft is wrong here is because of the bible. Which is not what I said at all.

Your point relies on defining a fetus as a completely separate individual. I'm sure you believe that too. But there are many would disagree since a fetus is not biologically viable as a separate individual until about the third trimester. Which is why there is less opposition to bans on third trimester abortions, than there are for first and second trimester abortion.

Exactly. And if we were to boil it down to the actual bulk of the pro-choicers... that is precisely where their belief structure is at... not in the 3rd trimester.

[chri'stina 190]

Just wanted you to know I did read your comments but am not sure how I'd want to answer at the moment. I have to go and make dinner too so I can't spend a lot of time typing anymore on this subject. But still, wanted to comment that I did read what you wrote even if I haven't specifically commented back to each issue. I am sure I have demonstrated why this issue is not really going to go away in this country soon.

[DeadPoolX 9]

I'll try to say my point another way since it doesn't seem to be getting across. Why is abortion considered a religious issue only?

If murder and theft are something considered wrong irregardless of religion(duh, I'm not stupid), then I think abortion should be too. Something thought about more and the decision on whether it's a life or not is not just a religious issue. I saw the debate elsewhere in strictly biological terms. I don't think you have to have any faith at all to consider that abortion is getting rid of a life. Whether my faith adds to my passion on it, it still is a biological issue to be debated.

I know we are not a theocracy, and my point is why is abortion made such a religious issue and not a human rights and biological issue also.

If I still am not getting my point across, then I give up.

I suppose abortion could be made a religious issue simply because we're talking about the "creation of life" and therein lies the controversy. Those who're religiously inclined might believe one thing and those who're secular will believe another. Murder and theft involve either the ending of life (which isn't debated nearly as much, perhaps because prevention lies with stopping crime instead of convincing a parent to cease a procedure) and theft can be either burglary or robbery, depending on the situation, neither of which is nearly as serious when compared to the other two.

Most of all, turning abortion into a religious versus secular issue makes it a great political debate. Republicans can get their highly religious members riled up while Democrats, probably pissed off at that thought of being told they can't do something, will shout back. It makes for great news coverage and works in favor of candidates running for positions within the government. It gives them something to talk about while avoiding more important issues, such as the economy or health care (which might include abortion practices as well).

[HAL 9000 96]

I'll try to say my point another way since it doesn't seem to be getting across. Why is abortion considered a religious issue only?

If murder and theft are something considered wrong irregardless of religion(duh, I'm not stupid), then I think abortion should be too. Something thought about more and the decision on whether it's a life or not is not just a religious issue. I saw the debate elsewhere in strictly biological terms. I don't think you have to have any faith at all to consider that abortion is getting rid of a life. Whether my faith adds to my passion on it, it still is a biological issue to be debated.

I know we are not a theocracy, and my point is why is abortion made such a religious issue and not a human rights and biological issue also.

If I still am not getting my point across, then I give up.

I suppose abortion could be made a religious issue simply because we're talking about the "creation of life" and therein lies the controversy. Those who're religiously inclined might believe one thing and those who're secular will believe another. Murder and theft involve either the ending of life (which isn't debated nearly as much, perhaps because prevention lies with stopping crime instead of convincing a parent to cease a procedure) and theft can be either burglary or robbery, depending on the situation, neither of which is nearly as serious when compared to the other two.

Most of all, turning abortion into a religious versus secular issue makes it a great political debate. Republicans can get their highly religious members riled up while Democrats, probably pissed off at that thought of being told they can't do something, will shout back. It makes for great news coverage and works in favor of candidates running for positions within the government. It gives them something to talk about while avoiding more important issues, such as the economy or health care (which might include abortion practices as well).

And it all goes to kaput when people are reminded that Republicans are supposedly about less government and Democrats the opposite... which is a lame excuse for ignoring reality.

[DeadPoolX 9]

I'll try to say my point another way since it doesn't seem to be getting across. Why is abortion considered a religious issue only?

If murder and theft are something considered wrong irregardless of religion(duh, I'm not stupid), then I think abortion should be too. Something thought about more and the decision on whether it's a life or not is not just a religious issue. I saw the debate elsewhere in strictly biological terms. I don't think you have to have any faith at all to consider that abortion is getting rid of a life. Whether my faith adds to my passion on it, it still is a biological issue to be debated.

I know we are not a theocracy, and my point is why is abortion made such a religious issue and not a human rights and biological issue also.

If I still am not getting my point across, then I give up.

I suppose abortion could be made a religious issue simply because we're talking about the "creation of life" and therein lies the controversy. Those who're religiously inclined might believe one thing and those who're secular will believe another. Murder and theft involve either the ending of life (which isn't debated nearly as much, perhaps because prevention lies with stopping crime instead of convincing a parent to cease a procedure) and theft can be either burglary or robbery, depending on the situation, neither of which is nearly as serious when compared to the other two.

Most of all, turning abortion into a religious versus secular issue makes it a great political debate. Republicans can get their highly religious members riled up while Democrats, probably pissed off at that thought of being told they can't do something, will shout back. It makes for great news coverage and works in favor of candidates running for positions within the government. It gives them something to talk about while avoiding more important issues, such as the economy or health care (which might include abortion practices as well).

And it all goes to kaput when people are reminded that Republicans are supposedly about less government and Democrats the opposite... which is a lame excuse for ignoring reality.

The reality is that both Democrats and Republicans are for either less or more government whenever saying so suits that particular party or candidate's needs.

[Dan J 277]

I'll try to say my point another way since it doesn't seem to be getting across. Why is abortion considered a religious issue only?

If murder and theft are something considered wrong irregardless of religion(duh, I'm not stupid), then I think abortion should be too. Something thought about more and the decision on whether it's a life or not is not just a religious issue. I saw the debate elsewhere in strictly biological terms. I don't think you have to have any faith at all to consider that abortion is getting rid of a life. Whether my faith adds to my passion on it, it still is a biological issue to be debated.

I know we are not a theocracy, and my point is why is abortion made such a religious issue and not a human rights and biological issue also.

If I still am not getting my point across, then I give up.

I suppose abortion could be made a religious issue simply because we're talking about the "creation of life" and therein lies the controversy. Those who're religiously inclined might believe one thing and those who're secular will believe another. Murder and theft involve either the ending of life (which isn't debated nearly as much, perhaps because prevention lies with stopping crime instead of convincing a parent to cease a procedure) and theft can be either burglary or robbery, depending on the situation, neither of which is nearly as serious when compared to the other two.

Most of all, turning abortion into a religious versus secular issue makes it a great political debate. Republicans can get their highly religious members riled up while Democrats, probably pissed off at that thought of being told they can't do something, will shout back. It makes for great news coverage and works in favor of candidates running for positions within the government. It gives them something to talk about while avoiding more important issues, such as the economy or health care (which might include abortion practices as well).

And it all goes to kaput when people are reminded that Republicans are supposedly about less government and Democrats the opposite... which is a lame excuse for ignoring reality.

The reality is that both Democrats and Republicans are for either less or more government whenever saying so suits that particular party or candidate's needs.

Personally, I don't care about more or less government as long as government is efficiently filling a need. I care about fiscal responsibility which of late, Republicans have had a poor track record.

[IAMX 3,055]

The Republican party of "less government" only wants less government intrusion when it comes to their wallets and guns. When it comes to morals, no one gets more intruding than them. Ironically, no one also gets more hypocritical than them.