GOP platform calls for constitutional abortion ban

[HAL 9000 96]

I'll comment even though I shouldn't.

This divide is going to continue forever for some of us because personally I cannot comprehend how people think abortion is ok. The same way people cannot comprehend people like me who are so against abortion. The whole "it's the woman's body so it's her choice" is bull.

The bible also says don't murder and don't steal, should we take those out of our laws because they appear in the bible? Just to make sure the church and state are fully separated and all.

Why are those(murder, theft) considered wrong by people of different faiths and by people of no faith, but the idea that abortion is getting rid of a life is only a religious issue? It's a topic that really bothers me. Why is it a religious issue and not a regular issue like stealing or killing? And if you don't understand why I believe this way, I also don't understand why you do either. I can understand more in the cases of saving the mom's life, but for convenience or a means of birth control I think it's absolutely horrible. My mind will never change on that. The same way I never will think it's ok to steal, kill, etc. The whole spin that it's the woman's choice is ridiculous to me.

Separation of Church and State. Not all are obliged to consider the life of an incubating fetus in the same doctrine or belief-system as you do. That is perhaps why some people have a hard time understanding that a secular government is not required to follow the particular beliefs of one doctrine.

[Dan J 277]

I'll comment even though I shouldn't.

This divide is going to continue forever for some of us because personally I cannot comprehend how people think abortion is ok. The same way people cannot comprehend people like me who are so against abortion. The whole "it's the woman's body so it's her choice" is bull.

The bible also says don't murder and don't steal, should we take those out of our laws because they appear in the bible? Just to make sure the church and state are fully separated and all.

Why are those(murder, theft) considered wrong by people of different faiths and by people of no faith, but the idea that abortion is getting rid of a life is only a religious issue? It's a topic that really bothers me. Why is it a religious issue and not a regular issue like stealing or killing? And if you don't understand why I believe this way, I also don't understand why you do either. I can understand more in the cases of saving the mom's life, but for convenience or a means of birth control I think it's absolutely horrible. My mind will never change on that. The same way I never will think it's ok to steal, kill, etc. The whole spin that it's the woman's choice is ridiculous to me.

In a pluralist society laws have to be based on concepts other than religion. Though its possible that some of the concepts may be shared by religion.

Laws related to murder are based on humans rights. Killing someone will infringe on anothers human rights. Laws related to theft are somewhat more cultural, as the are some cultures that do not really have individual property rights.

The gray area exists in abortion because a fetus cannot exist independently until about the third trimester. Even then, medical assistance may be required for the child to survive. Can human rights apply to fetus that cannot yet be considered an individual? Religious people will tend to say absolutely, while others will disagree. Which is why it becomes a religious issue.

But really the focus should not be on abortion, but on sex education. The more people know about conception, contraception and what it costs to raise a child, the less likely people will use abortion as birth control.

Yet, many of the same people who are against abortion, are also against good sex education (outside of abstinence only). This can create greater socioeconomic problems since more children will be born in poor households. More likely to end up in the criminal justice system, more likely to be reliant on public services, etc.

Edited August 26, 2008 by Dan + Gemvita

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Sex education? I don't know. The more I learned about sex, the more I wanted to have it!

I guess it didn't help that I 'learned' from watching porn.

[Chica Yeyé 41]

Sex education? I don't know. The more I learned about sex, the more I wanted to have it!

I guess it didn't help that I 'learned' from watching porn.

That's cuz you're a perverted freak.

Edited August 26, 2008 by Len_and_Bren

[chri'stina 190]

I'll comment even though I shouldn't.

This divide is going to continue forever for some of us because personally I cannot comprehend how people think abortion is ok. The same way people cannot comprehend people like me who are so against abortion. The whole "it's the woman's body so it's her choice" is bull.

The bible also says don't murder and don't steal, should we take those out of our laws because they appear in the bible? Just to make sure the church and state are fully separated and all.

Why are those(murder, theft) considered wrong by people of different faiths and by people of no faith, but the idea that abortion is getting rid of a life is only a religious issue? It's a topic that really bothers me. Why is it a religious issue and not a regular issue like stealing or killing? And if you don't understand why I believe this way, I also don't understand why you do either. I can understand more in the cases of saving the mom's life, but for convenience or a means of birth control I think it's absolutely horrible. My mind will never change on that. The same way I never will think it's ok to steal, kill, etc. The whole spin that it's the woman's choice is ridiculous to me.

Separation of Church and State. Not all are obliged to consider the life of an incubating fetus in the same doctrine or belief-system as you do. That is perhaps why some people have a hard time understanding that a secular government is not required to follow the particular beliefs of one doctrine.

But we are all obliged to think of murder and theft the same way. hmmm. lol.

Actually while Christians believe abortion is wrong it is the same way we believe murder is wrong. Jesus didn't say "abortion is wrong". But you get the gist from the bible that life is precious in the womb. I thought that'd be something good you know, to show how important each one of us is even before we are born. But I guess the bible has bad stuff in it, like thou shall not Murder, thou shall not steal, etc. It's a shame that people don't consider the life of the fetus the same way as a born baby.

Anyway I know I am in a losing battle and this topic riles me up so much that I shouldn't even write about it. You're all right and much wiser than me.

[Ban Hammer 13,691]

Sex education? I don't know. The more I learned about sex, the more I wanted to have it!

I guess it didn't help that I 'learned' from watching porn.

That's cuz you're a perverted freak.

this isn't gonna turn into a pot/kettle thread, is it?

[Chica Yeyé 41]

Sex education? I don't know. The more I learned about sex, the more I wanted to have it!

I guess it didn't help that I 'learned' from watching porn.

That's cuz you're a perverted freak.

this isn't gonna turn into a pot/kettle thread, is it?

I iz not pervert

I iz a prude. Or so says the redhead

[Peikko 1,575]

I'll comment even though I shouldn't.

This divide is going to continue forever for some of us because personally I cannot comprehend how people think abortion is ok. The same way people cannot comprehend people like me who are so against abortion. The whole "it's the woman's body so it's her choice" is bull.

The bible also says don't murder and don't steal, should we take those out of our laws because they appear in the bible? Just to make sure the church and state are fully separated and all.

Why are those(murder, theft) considered wrong by people of different faiths and by people of no faith, but the idea that abortion is getting rid of a life is only a religious issue? It's a topic that really bothers me. Why is it a religious issue and not a regular issue like stealing or killing? And if you don't understand why I believe this way, I also don't understand why you do either. I can understand more in the cases of saving the mom's life, but for convenience or a means of birth control I think it's absolutely horrible. My mind will never change on that. The same way I never will think it's ok to steal, kill, etc. The whole spin that it's the woman's choice is ridiculous to me.

Talk about mixing arguments to suit your platform.

Murder isn't wrong just because it's in the bible. Theft isn't wrong just because it's in the bible. Abortion doesn't stand and fall on whether it's a religious issue.

[DeadPoolX 9]

I'll comment even though I shouldn't.

This divide is going to continue forever for some of us because personally I cannot comprehend how people think abortion is ok. The same way people cannot comprehend people like me who are so against abortion. The whole "it's the woman's body so it's her choice" is bull.

The bible also says don't murder and don't steal, should we take those out of our laws because they appear in the bible? Just to make sure the church and state are fully separated and all.

Why are those(murder, theft) considered wrong by people of different faiths and by people of no faith, but the idea that abortion is getting rid of a life is only a religious issue? It's a topic that really bothers me. Why is it a religious issue and not a regular issue like stealing or killing? And if you don't understand why I believe this way, I also don't understand why you do either. I can understand more in the cases of saving the mom's life, but for convenience or a means of birth control I think it's absolutely horrible. My mind will never change on that. The same way I never will think it's ok to steal, kill, etc. The whole spin that it's the woman's choice is ridiculous to me.

Separation of Church and State. Not all are obliged to consider the life of an incubating fetus in the same doctrine or belief-system as you do. That is perhaps why some people have a hard time understanding that a secular government is not required to follow the particular beliefs of one doctrine.

But we are all obliged to think of murder and theft the same way. hmmm. lol.

Actually while Christians believe abortion is wrong it is the same way we believe murder is wrong. Jesus didn't say "abortion is wrong". But you get the gist from the bible that life is precious in the womb. I thought that'd be something good you know, to show how important each one of us is even before we are born. But I guess the bible has bad stuff in it, like thou shall not Murder, thou shall not steal, etc. It's a shame that people don't consider the life of the fetus the same way as a born baby.

Anyway I know I am in a losing battle and this topic riles me up so much that I shouldn't even write about it. You're all right and much wiser than me.

Basically, it comes down to this: we're not a theocracy. Therefore, what's said in the Bible is left for religious services and not for government practices. Sometimes the two may overlap, but that's only because some ideas may have context necessary to the survival of our culture (i.e. don't kill your neighbor's wife or he'll kill yours), but the religious context has been removed.

Our laws are written in legalize, not religious scripture. They'll say something like, "State Penal Code I, Section V, Article III, Subheading II - Crimes that involve a rubber duck and a slinky" whereas the Bible will refer to issues with "The Lord did make his nose dribbelth for 30 days and 30 nights due to his crimes."

[HAL 9000 96]

I'll comment even though I shouldn't.

This divide is going to continue forever for some of us because personally I cannot comprehend how people think abortion is ok. The same way people cannot comprehend people like me who are so against abortion. The whole "it's the woman's body so it's her choice" is bull.

The bible also says don't murder and don't steal, should we take those out of our laws because they appear in the bible? Just to make sure the church and state are fully separated and all.

Why are those(murder, theft) considered wrong by people of different faiths and by people of no faith, but the idea that abortion is getting rid of a life is only a religious issue? It's a topic that really bothers me. Why is it a religious issue and not a regular issue like stealing or killing? And if you don't understand why I believe this way, I also don't understand why you do either. I can understand more in the cases of saving the mom's life, but for convenience or a means of birth control I think it's absolutely horrible. My mind will never change on that. The same way I never will think it's ok to steal, kill, etc. The whole spin that it's the woman's choice is ridiculous to me.

Separation of Church and State. Not all are obliged to consider the life of an incubating fetus in the same doctrine or belief-system as you do. That is perhaps why some people have a hard time understanding that a secular government is not required to follow the particular beliefs of one doctrine.

But we are all obliged to think of murder and theft the same way. hmmm. lol.

Actually while Christians believe abortion is wrong it is the same way we believe murder is wrong. Jesus didn't say "abortion is wrong". But you get the gist from the bible that life is precious in the womb. I thought that'd be something good you know, to show how important each one of us is even before we are born. But I guess the bible has bad stuff in it, like thou shall not Murder, thou shall not steal, etc. It's a shame that people don't consider the life of the fetus the same way as a born baby.

Anyway I know I am in a losing battle and this topic riles me up so much that I shouldn't even write about it. You're all right and much wiser than me.

Believe me sister... if it were a matter of practicing our Christian ideals and morals in a public manner we wouldn't have much need for much of a punishment system nor an enforcement doctrine that focused on educating people in a way as to avoid immorality that quite easily intersects secular law.

In other words... in a secular, plural nation, the separation of church and state calls for the LACK of an imposition of religious belief upon the institutions of the secular government. A plus is handed to the society when the secular laws are written and intended in actual, bona fide philosophy, in such a way as to reflect morality and well-being. If there is an intersection between religious doctrine and moral doctrine behind a law, then all the better for a society that for the most part, professes some sort of religious doctrine.

As for what Jesus would do or say... its left to interpretation. And in the strictest legal sense, the interpretation of a religious doctrine does not provide for a legal avenue to establish itself in the prohibition of secular activities.

Then again... if we again were to think about acting in a moral fashion that was identical and faithful to our religious roots... then much of our society's hipocrisies would not exist would they?

[Chica Yeyé 41]

Basically, it comes down to this: we're not a theocracy. Therefore, what's said in the Bible is left for religious services and not for government practices. Sometimes the two may overlap, but that's only because some ideas may have context necessary to the survival of our culture (i.e. don't kill your neighbor's wife or he'll kill yours), but the religious context has been removed.

Our laws are written in legalize, not religious scripture. They'll say something like, "State Penal Code I, Section V, Article III, Subheading II - Crimes that involve a rubber duck and a slinky" whereas the Bible will refer to issues with "The Lord did make his nose dribbelth for 30 days and 30 nights due to his crimes."

But, but, but.... I didn't know that was against the law, I swear

[Ban Hammer 13,691]

Sex education? I don't know. The more I learned about sex, the more I wanted to have it!

I guess it didn't help that I 'learned' from watching porn.

That's cuz you're a perverted freak.

this isn't gonna turn into a pot/kettle thread, is it?

I iz not pervert

I iz a prude. Or so says the redhead

solution:

tequila!

[Chica Yeyé 41]

Sex education? I don't know. The more I learned about sex, the more I wanted to have it!

I guess it didn't help that I 'learned' from watching porn.

That's cuz you're a perverted freak.

this isn't gonna turn into a pot/kettle thread, is it?

I iz not pervert

I iz a prude. Or so says the redhead

solution:

tequila!

how dare you!!!

[chri'stina 190]

I feel like people are talking to me like I'm an idiot.

I'll comment even though I shouldn't.

This divide is going to continue forever for some of us because personally I cannot comprehend how people think abortion is ok. The same way people cannot comprehend people like me who are so against abortion. The whole "it's the woman's body so it's her choice" is bull.

The bible also says don't murder and don't steal, should we take those out of our laws because they appear in the bible? Just to make sure the church and state are fully separated and all.

Why are those(murder, theft) considered wrong by people of different faiths and by people of no faith, but the idea that abortion is getting rid of a life is only a religious issue? It's a topic that really bothers me. Why is it a religious issue and not a regular issue like stealing or killing? And if you don't understand why I believe this way, I also don't understand why you do either. I can understand more in the cases of saving the mom's life, but for convenience or a means of birth control I think it's absolutely horrible. My mind will never change on that. The same way I never will think it's ok to steal, kill, etc. The whole spin that it's the woman's choice is ridiculous to me.

Talk about mixing arguments to suit your platform.

Murder isn't wrong just because it's in the bible. Theft isn't wrong just because it's in the bible. Abortion doesn't stand and fall on whether it's a religious issue.

I know that, that was my argument. What was I mixing to suit my platform?

[HAL 9000 96]

I feel like people are talking to me like I'm an idiot.

I'll comment even though I shouldn't.

This divide is going to continue forever for some of us because personally I cannot comprehend how people think abortion is ok. The same way people cannot comprehend people like me who are so against abortion. The whole "it's the woman's body so it's her choice" is bull.

The bible also says don't murder and don't steal, should we take those out of our laws because they appear in the bible? Just to make sure the church and state are fully separated and all.

Why are those(murder, theft) considered wrong by people of different faiths and by people of no faith, but the idea that abortion is getting rid of a life is only a religious issue? It's a topic that really bothers me. Why is it a religious issue and not a regular issue like stealing or killing? And if you don't understand why I believe this way, I also don't understand why you do either. I can understand more in the cases of saving the mom's life, but for convenience or a means of birth control I think it's absolutely horrible. My mind will never change on that. The same way I never will think it's ok to steal, kill, etc. The whole spin that it's the woman's choice is ridiculous to me.

Talk about mixing arguments to suit your platform.

Murder isn't wrong just because it's in the bible. Theft isn't wrong just because it's in the bible. Abortion doesn't stand and fall on whether it's a religious issue.

I know that, that was my argument. What was I mixing to suit my platform?

Don't feel like something you are not.

I think you should first understand the very legal concept of separation of church and state. It was created in this country as a protection against the imposition of religion over secular affairs. Then perhaps you'll realize where it is you are imposing your belief structure over a plural society.