Olympic Judges

[dalegg 143]

Can you imagine the tough time the judges are going to have stripping that little girl of her Gold medals? By the way, what is the difference whether she's 14 or 16? Shouldn't a 16 year old be more experienced and therefore if a 14 year old accomplishes the same thing isn't that just more amazing? Or do smaller, younger girls have an advantage in gymnastics?

[Aubrey 10]

Can you imagine the tough time the judges are going to have stripping that little girl of her Gold medals? By the way, what is the difference whether she's 14 or 16? Shouldn't a 16 year old be more experienced and therefore if a 14 year old accomplishes the same thing isn't that just more amazing? Or do smaller, younger girls have an advantage in gymnastics?

Younger girls tend to perform better (usually 12-14) than the older, but the Olympics is supposed to be for women, not little girls. The imposed an age restriction for many valid reasons, including the undue pressure on young teens. Regardless of the reasons, the age restrictions should be followed to make for fair competition among all the athletes.

And in related news, there is more inquiry by the IOC as to the ages of the Chinese "women" medalists. Here's the story from the NY Times:

I.O.C. Asks for Inquiry of Chinese Gymnasts

Published: August 21, 2008

BEIJING — The International Olympic Committee asked the world governing body for gymnastics to investigate whether members of the Chinese women’s team were too young to compete in the Olympics.

The I.O.C. instructed the international gymnastics federation, known as the F.I.G., to take up the issue with the Chinese gymnastics federation and the Chinese Olympic Committee and report back to the I.O.C. later Friday.

The F.I.G. has asked the Chinese for official documents, including birth certificates, of its entire women’s gymnastics team, according to I.O.C. officials. At the start of the Beijing Games, I.O.C. officials said that they had reviewed documentation provided by the Chinese team, and that they were satisfied that the gymnasts met age requirements.

“More information has been brought to light and brought to our attention, so we decided to go to the federation and have them look into it further,” Emmanuelle Moreau, a spokeswoman for the I.O.C., said Friday. “We had been given some more information and thought that this information was concerning enough to go to the Chinese gymnastic federation and have a thorough discussion about it.”

The Chinese women’s team won six medals at the Beijing Games, including a gold in the team competition, in which the United States finished second.

Moreau declined to say what new information had led the I.O.C. to begin an inquiry, three days after the gymnastics competition ended.

In a statement, Steve Penny, the president of USA Gymnastics, said: “USA Gymnastics has always believed this issue needed to be addressed by the F.I.G. and I.O.C. An investigation would help bring closure to the issue and remove any cloud of speculation from this competition.”

The New York Times reported last month that online records listing Chinese gymnasts and their ages that were posted on official Web sites in China, along with ages given in the state-run Chinese news media, indicated that members of the team might be as young as 14. At least one of those lists was generated by China’s State General Administration of Sport.

A gymnast must turn 16 in the year of the Olympics to compete in the Games. Chinese officials responded by providing copies of passports indicating that the athletes in question were eligible. Sixteen has been the minimum age for Olympic eligibility since 1997.

According to online sports registration lists in China, half the team — He Kexin, Yang Yilin, Jiang Yuyuan — would be underage. The F.I.G., however, has said that those gymnasts were eligible and that the ages on their passports were correct.

Lu Shanzhen, the coach of the Chinese team, has insisted throughout the Games that the six gymnasts on his team were eligible to compete. On Friday, when he and the team met with reporters at an event hosted by Samsung, he again bristled when asked about the age issue.

“We talked to the I.O.C. yesterday and we have already submitted documents; every athlete is completely documented,” Lu said through an interpreter. “The foreign media keeps asking about it and it really makes us upset and affected our preparation for the Games.

“China’s team is very strong compared with the American team. That’s why they keep asking.”

When Lu was asked why the State General Administration of Sport had records showing He was underage, the interpreter cut in.

“He has already answered that question,” she said. “This question is upsetting the gymnasts.”

He won the gold on the uneven bars, beating the United States’ Nastia Liukin in a tiebreaker.

Throughout the Olympic competition, He was asked about her age. All her answers were similar: “I’m 16. People who know me know I am 16. What more do I have to say?”

On Friday, when the team sat in a row at the front of a room, He remained still as reporters asked about the I.O.C.’s latest inquiry into her age, and the ages of her teammates.

Her head was down. Her hands were folded on her lap. Two gymnasts down, Deng Linlin — at 4 feet 6 inches and 68 pounds, the smallest of the Chinese gymnasts — held back tears.

[Aubrey 10]

Uhm, VJ forums cut off my post and wouldn't let me edit... here's the rest:

Bruno Grandi, president of the F.I.G., said at the start of these Games that the passports were the best evidence of a gymnast’s age because they were an official government document. Grandi said the F.I.G. would not look into using birth certificates: “Why? The passports are official proof.” He also said then that the F.I.G. would not investigate the matter any further, nor would the federation look into the age falsification of Yang Yun of China in 2000.

Yang, who won an individual and a team bronze at the 2000 Sydney Olympics, later said in an interview on state-run television that she was 14 at those Games. A Hunan Province sports administration report verified that she was 14 when she competed in Sydney.

“The person, the Internet, that is not official,” Grandi said. “Passports, that is an official document. That is what we look at.”

André Gueisbuhler, the secretary general of F.I.G., said, “It is not my task to launch any investigation to create any problems in the future.”

Age falsification has been a lingering problem in international women’s gymnastics. Younger gymnasts are often lighter, making it easier to perform certain tricks on apparatus like the uneven bars. Some coaches also believe gymnasts are less fearful of injury when they are younger.

The minimum age for Olympic competition was raised from 14 to 15 in the early 1980s. In 1993, the North Korean gymnastics federation was barred from the world championships for falsifying ages. At one point, the federation listed one of its gymnasts, Kim Gwang Suk, as 15 for three straight years.

Kim, 4-4 and about 62 pounds, showed up at the 1991 world championships missing two front teeth, prompting questions.

Bela Karolyi, the coach of gymnastics legends like Mary Lou Retton and Nadia Comaneci, said he thought Kim must have been younger than 11 at the time.Her coaches said she had lost her permanent teeth years before in an accident on the uneven bars.

Karolyi was just as adamant about the Chinese gymnasts in Beijing being underage, particularly when Deng Linlin smiled and he noticed she had a gap in her top teeth.

“Her teeth are missing!” he said. “She is a baby! How can the Chinese get away with cheating the world? They are backed by their government and doing this in front of our faces.”

His wife, Martha Karolyi, the United States women’s national team coordinator, said the age requirement should be done away with.

“It just causes problems, and you can’t prove if someone is following the rules or not,” she said. “It causes too many problems.”

[MichelleN 0]

I'm glad to see they're doing something about the Chinese gymnasts but I'm a bit skeptical anything will come of it. If their government has already started to try and cover up proof in newspapers (per a SI article), then what's to stop them from doctoring birth certificates?

[dalegg 143]

Can you imagine the tough time the judges are going to have stripping that little girl of her Gold medals? By the way, what is the difference whether she's 14 or 16? Shouldn't a 16 year old be more experienced and therefore if a 14 year old accomplishes the same thing isn't that just more amazing? Or do smaller, younger girls have an advantage in gymnastics?

Younger girls tend to perform better (usually 12-14) than the older, but the Olympics is supposed to be for women, not little girls. The imposed an age restriction for many valid reasons, including the undue pressure on young teens. Regardless of the reasons, the age restrictions should be followed to make for fair competition among all the athletes.

Yeah, later yesterday I watched an interview with a doctor who specializes in sports and he was explaining how there is actually a physical difference in Cartilage vs Mature bone that gives girls younger than 15 an edge in flexibility. Nadia Comăneci was only 14 when she got her perfect 10 scores and the point of the age restriction was to make a 10 nearly impossible after that.

So, it makes sense to me.

[Moto-zutto 0]

Your government can easily make a fake passport to avoid embarrassment. If the girls are under age, I think they were still judged wrong

[LaGreenEyes 0]

There have been more than enough interesting calls during these Olympics to make you wonder what's really going on.

I feel bad not only for the Americans cheated in gymnastics, but also for the other athletes who were denied a medal.

Yes, in the women's all around I definitely believe the Chinese gymnast who got the bronze (after many mistakes) should not have. I believe it was one of the Russian or Rumanian that came in a close 4th and she, too was robbed a medal. She was really good.

[IAMX 3,055]

Damn, I sure wouldn't mind echoing the comment I made earlier, and further glad by every passing day I haven't watched any of the olympics in protest to China's stupidity. Sorry for the girls, but I hope their medals are stripped if it's proven (by a thorough investigation, not some half-hearted "probe") they are underage, which it looks like to me. Evidence on top of it that China opted to take down the websites which reported what China's own government had proven regarding her age (and it being less than minimum requirements). Remembering that China's media is also state-run, it makes even less sense that they can blame the few articles on misreporting.

[Sister Fracas 5]

I'm glad to see they're doing something about the Chinese gymnasts but I'm a bit skeptical anything will come of it. If their government has already started to try and cover up proof in newspapers (per a SI article), then what's to stop them from doctoring birth certificates?

I'd be shocked if anything comes of it. What a colossal embarassment it would be to the host city.

Can you imagine the tough time the judges are going to have stripping that little girl of her Gold medals? By the way, what is the difference whether she's 14 or 16? Shouldn't a 16 year old be more experienced and therefore if a 14 year old accomplishes the same thing isn't that just more amazing? Or do smaller, younger girls have an advantage in gymnastics?

Younger girls tend to perform better (usually 12-14) than the older, but the Olympics is supposed to be for women, not little girls. The imposed an age restriction for many valid reasons, including the undue pressure on young teens. Regardless of the reasons, the age restrictions should be followed to make for fair competition among all the athletes.

Yeah, later yesterday I watched an interview with a doctor who specializes in sports and he was explaining how there is actually a physical difference in Cartilage vs Mature bone that gives girls younger than 15 an edge in flexibility. Nadia Comăneci was only 14 when she got her perfect 10 scores and the point of the age restriction was to make a 10 nearly impossible after that.

So, it makes sense to me.

Yeah, either make the playing field comepletely equal, by eliminating the age restriction, as Bela & Martha Karoli have said, or agree to the age restriction, but China was greedy and wanted to bag more golds medals than anyone else...even if it meant they had to lie to do it. I fully believe that more than one of those girls are under 16.

[Moto-zutto 0]

well if they keep the same girls, they will be of age come London! lol