Olympic Judges

[Moto-zutto 0]

Look, I don't know much about gymnastics, but I do know that landing a vault on two feet is better than landing one on two knees. Olympic gymnastics judges evidently disagree with me, as they awarded China's Cheng Fei a bronze medal yesterday even after she fell on her vault landing. American Alicia Sacramone finished fourth despite, you know, not falling.

And today, 16-year old Chinese gymnast He Kexin won gold over Nastia Liukin based on an obscure tiebreaking rule. The two received the same score from the judges, but He won a tiebreak because an Australian judge apparently was watching a different competition.

Every judging break seems to have gone China's way during these Olympics. I'm not suggesting a conspiracy, I just think that judges are humans who are influenced by big names, fans and other external factors. Oh, and they're also terrible. Judged events will always be viewed with skepticism by those who lose for this reason, particularly those who lose to a member of the home delegation. (Think Roy Jones Jr. at the 1988 Seoul Olympics.)

It is because of this skewed inconsistency that Fourth-Place Medal introduces The Real 2008 Medal Count. Our medal count will tally medals won in sports decided on the field of play, not by a judge in a teal blazer.

I know this was about the gymnastics, and I'm not talking down to any country, hell if you can do a front flip and land it, it is a gold in my book.lol. These were just the events on T.V. and is was very easy to see the bad judgement and mistakes. If someone understands the gymnastic judgement please feel free to explain it. because a gold medal awarded to someone hwo fell 2 times, VS. someone who fell 0 times....???? lol

[chri'stina 190]

I have been thinking the same thing. I watched last night the tie breaker issue in the uneven bars. I saw the other event you are talking about too. Something seems a bit weird with it all. I won't say it's an outright conspiracy either but yeah, it doesn't seem right.

[IAMX 3,055]

The Olympics were a joke to begin with, and China pretty much even more of one.

Edited August 19, 2008 by SRVT

[Jenn! 918]

Here's an explanation of the tie-breaking rules: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/olympics/...reaker_exp.html

From what I can tell, the first tie-break rule would always result in another tie, and the second tie-break rule is really not all that complicated at all - they throw out the second lowest score. Not sure why they keep referring to the rule as "obscure", unless there's something more intricate about gymnastics scoring that I'm missing.

[bora bora 1]

I know what you mean! I watched that "tie breaker" yesterday and it seems unfair. Like it was said, the judges can obviously not be from a country with a competitor, so they choose judges that are inexperienced...don't know which one is worse.

[Aubrey 10]

I spent quite a few years in competitive gymnastics, so I'd say I'm more familar than the average Jane with what to look for in a routine, particularly in relation to deductions. Besides that, I watch whatever gymnastics I can, so I've seen a lot in my time.

I've never seen such horribly inaccuracies in judging as I did in the women's gymnastics here. The whole thing has disgusted me. Taking a bronze medal when you land on your knees and touch your hands to the ground -- that's a huge deduction, and it should have easily taken that Chinese gymnast out of medal contention. But then there were oddities on beam and vault in the all-around too, and always in favor of the Chinese. Frankly, not only were the US women robbed of several medals, but also other countries. The German gymnast deserved the gold on vault, for example.

I think it's on the side of naive to believe it's just coincidence that scores could be so peculiarly in favor of the Chinese. I wouldn't put it past China to bribe the panel of judges after they obviously entered underage children into the women's gymnastics. Heck, look what they did to the opening ceremony.

As for the tie-breaker, it's a dumb way to break a tie. Removing so many scores puts the medal in the hands of only 3 judges. You have 6 to avoid problems with inaccurate scoring - removing more than the highest and lowest defeats that very purpose. The IOC did wrong by requiring tie-breakers. Why shouldn't two athletes with the same record both get the same medal?

Very disappointing.

[Kathryn41 3,205]

I have felt the same way about the gymnastics judging. I thought it was interesting during the all around when the technical judge marched out of her office and went over and had a heated discussion with the head judge, the result of which they increased the score of the Russian gymnast. It seemed to be from that point on that the judging became more fair - and that is when Nastia and Shawn started to get better marks and the Chinese gymnasts received marks more reflecting the flaws in their programmes. It has been blatantly obvious that the Chinese gymnasts were expected to wipe clean with gold all around regardless of the expertise of the other competitors. This has been an ongoing problem with the skating competitions in the Winter Olympics as well where it was obvious that the final decisions were made long before the competitions.

Edited August 19, 2008 by Kathryn41

[HAL 9000 96]

Look, I don't know much about gymnastics, but I do know that landing a vault on two feet is better than landing one on two knees. Olympic gymnastics judges evidently disagree with me, as they awarded China's Cheng Fei a bronze medal yesterday even after she fell on her vault landing. American Alicia Sacramone finished fourth despite, you know, not falling.

And today, 16-year old Chinese gymnast He Kexin won gold over Nastia Liukin based on an obscure tiebreaking rule. The two received the same score from the judges, but He won a tiebreak because an Australian judge apparently was watching a different competition.

Every judging break seems to have gone China's way during these Olympics. I'm not suggesting a conspiracy, I just think that judges are humans who are influenced by big names, fans and other external factors. Oh, and they're also terrible. Judged events will always be viewed with skepticism by those who lose for this reason, particularly those who lose to a member of the home delegation. (Think Roy Jones Jr. at the 1988 Seoul Olympics.)

It is because of this skewed inconsistency that Fourth-Place Medal introduces The Real 2008 Medal Count. Our medal count will tally medals won in sports decided on the field of play, not by a judge in a teal blazer.

I know this was about the gymnastics, and I'm not talking down to any country, hell if you can do a front flip and land it, it is a gold in my book.lol. These were just the events on T.V. and is was very easy to see the bad judgement and mistakes. If someone understands the gymnastic judgement please feel free to explain it. because a gold medal awarded to someone hwo fell 2 times, VS. someone who fell 0 times....???? lol

No offense, but next time cite the source you post as text.

Rules are rules. Folks like Chris Chase need to stop making excuses and accept defeat.

[Moto-zutto 0]

Look, I don't know much about gymnastics, but I do know that landing a vault on two feet is better than landing one on two knees. Olympic gymnastics judges evidently disagree with me, as they awarded China's Cheng Fei a bronze medal yesterday even after she fell on her vault landing. American Alicia Sacramone finished fourth despite, you know, not falling.

And today, 16-year old Chinese gymnast He Kexin won gold over Nastia Liukin based on an obscure tiebreaking rule. The two received the same score from the judges, but He won a tiebreak because an Australian judge apparently was watching a different competition.

Every judging break seems to have gone China's way during these Olympics. I'm not suggesting a conspiracy, I just think that judges are humans who are influenced by big names, fans and other external factors. Oh, and they're also terrible. Judged events will always be viewed with skepticism by those who lose for this reason, particularly those who lose to a member of the home delegation. (Think Roy Jones Jr. at the 1988 Seoul Olympics.)

It is because of this skewed inconsistency that Fourth-Place Medal introduces The Real 2008 Medal Count. Our medal count will tally medals won in sports decided on the field of play, not by a judge in a teal blazer.

I know this was about the gymnastics, and I'm not talking down to any country, hell if you can do a front flip and land it, it is a gold in my book.lol. These were just the events on T.V. and is was very easy to see the bad judgement and mistakes. If someone understands the gymnastic judgement please feel free to explain it. because a gold medal awarded to someone hwo fell 2 times, VS. someone who fell 0 times....???? lol

No offense, but next time cite the source you post as text.

Rules are rules. Folks like Chris Chase need to stop making excuses and accept defeat.

ooops thought I did... too late to edit now

[Jack and Barbara 0]

There have been more than enough interesting calls during these Olympics to make you wonder what's really going on.

I feel bad not only for the Americans cheated in gymnastics, but also for the other athletes who were denied a medal.

[pedroh 21]

I think Nastia should have gotten the gold medal.. there was something fishy there

[Scott & Lai 12]

Why shouldn't two athletes with the same record both get the same medal?

Very disappointing.

I wonder the same thing. For example, what would have happened if both Michael Phelps and the Serbian who came in second had touched the wall at precisely the same instant? Wouldn't they both have rightly won a gold (I don't recall seeing such an occurance, so I'm not sure what would happen)? And if so, why wouldn't that work in Gymnastics?

I think Nastia should have gotten the gold medal.. there was something fishy there

Yep. Nastia should have gotten the gold, and Alicia should have gotten the bronze.

Has anyone noticed any thing fishy with the other point-based sports? I don't recall such ridiculous judging errors with diving, for instance. There the scores seemed to make more sense.

[Moto-zutto 0]

Why shouldn't two athletes with the same record both get the same medal?

Very disappointing.

I wonder the same thing. For example, what would have happened if both Michael Phelps and the Serbian who came in second had touched the wall at precisely the same instant? Wouldn't they both have rightly won a gold (I don't recall seeing such an occurance, so I'm not sure what would happen)? And if so, why wouldn't that work in Gymnastics?

I think Nastia should have gotten the gold medal.. there was something fishy there

Yep. Nastia should have gotten the gold, and Alicia should have gotten the bronze.

Has anyone noticed any thing fishy with the other point-based sports? I don't recall such ridiculous judging errors with diving, for instance. There the scores seemed to make more sense.

I agree, Gymnastics seem to have the only fishy, or atleast most fishy points system.

[HAL 9000 96]

They should just make it like American Idol and be done with these pesky rules.

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

There was a lot of controversy in the men's competition in Athens, especially on the rings (which also went in favor of the host country). I believe that's why the over-hauled the scoring and eliminated the 10. Hasn't really worked out too well, in my opinion. According to Tim Dagget (who may be biased, but still) there were 5 potential deductions on the Chinese girl's bar routine that were apparently not made like not holding her handstand for long enough, and the her second release move was lopsided.