Would you sue for this?

[yogib37 3]

Whoa...I just sort of skimmed over all these posts but I've been working on cars all my life (since a teen) and I've just completed the timing belt on two cars I own, one of which I sold recently, a Neon and a Kia Spectra.

The Neon's water pump is behind the timing cover and is driven by the timing belt. When doing a pump replacement it's always good practice to replace the belt and tensioner at the same time as this job's very labor intensive!

The Kia was a bit different as it's WP is also located behing the timing cover but NOT driven by the timing belt but rather its shaft exits the cover and a pulley is installed to allow it to be driven by an external accesory belt. Nevertheless, it too is a very labor intensive job and if replacing the belt, or pump, it's always "good practice" to replace everything under the cover, belt, tensioner, and pump.

If I understand your problem you've had a sensor replaced? May I ask what the model/year/engine combo is in your car?

Do you have an electric radiator coolant fan? Do you hear it come on when overheating?

BTW, a bad WP will result in some leakage of anti-freeze, usually via the shaft bearings. If you park in a personal driveway everyday then inspect the place where you park for signs of antifreeze. See any?

If not, then assuming a bad WP (if they're right which in my experience is rare) then if you don't see anti-freeze on the driveway, open the inspection hole on the timing belt cam cover (usually a plastic plug) and look around with a flashlight. You should see a belt, and other components soaked in gree anti-freeze if the pump's leaking. If not, then look elsewhere.

The most prevalent causes of overheats are:

1 Stuck thermostat (certainly not an $800 job)

2 Bad fan clutch, or in your case a bad fan temperature switch as I suspect that your car has an electric fan.

3 WP

4 clogged or leaking radiator

I like this post. It is very interesting. You sound like what you know what your talking about.

Keep up the good work and keep us informed

Yogi

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

Your car engine light comes on - so not wanting to take chances you take the car to the garage who perform an obligatory computer diagnostic (for $100) and tell you that the error is in the coolant system. You then pay $500 to replace the thermostat and one of the coolant hoses which you are given to understand is the cause of the problem.

You drive the car for 2 weeks - at which point the car inexplicably overheats and boils over (and the engine light comes back on).

You have the car towed to the dealer garage where you originally got it fixed as they did the last batch of work. They get to looking at it "when they get around to it" and quote you an $800 repair bill for a busted water pump and a boiled coolant sensor. "Generously" the garage offers you a 10% discount on the cost of the *new* repairs.

Knowing that there aren't too many reasons why a car will overheat and boil over - does the garage have some responsibility for not correctly identifying the original problem?

Dude, pick up a scan tool if your car is 1996 or newer. A CEL (check engine light) won't indicate a bad thermostat but it will indicate a bad coolant temperature sensor. So your initial repair was incorrect. You are very lucky you didn't blow a head gasket.

Sure.... take them to small claims court. And I've never sued anyone (not that I wouldn't).

scan tool (just one example)

[natty bumppo 297]

Your car engine light comes on - so not wanting to take chances you take the car to the garage who perform an obligatory computer diagnostic (for $100) and tell you that the error is in the coolant system. You then pay $500 to replace the thermostat and one of the coolant hoses which you are given to understand is the cause of the problem.

You drive the car for 2 weeks - at which point the car inexplicably overheats and boils over (and the engine light comes back on).

You have the car towed to the dealer garage where you originally got it fixed as they did the last batch of work. They get to looking at it "when they get around to it" and quote you an $800 repair bill for a busted water pump and a boiled coolant sensor. "Generously" the garage offers you a 10% discount on the cost of the *new* repairs.

Knowing that there aren't too many reasons why a car will overheat and boil over - does the garage have some responsibility for not correctly identifying the original problem?

get rid of the lemon ... quit looking for $$$$$$$ ... move on ...

[Ggreen 12]

Dude, pick up a scan tool if your car is 1996 or newer. A CEL (check engine light) won't indicate a bad thermostat but it will indicate a bad coolant temperature sensor. So your initial repair was incorrect. You are very lucky you didn't blow a head gasket.

Sure.... take them to small claims court. And I've never sued anyone (not that I wouldn't).

scan tool (just one example)

Scan tool can be used for 1996 or newer (OBD2) or 1996 and older (OBD1), it tells you what is the problem (coolant sensor code#Pxxxx), but it doesn't tell you the cause of the problem (over heated engine, loose connection at the sensor terminal...or failed PCM power control module).

i agree with you, it is good to have one at least to know which system failed.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Having the money to buy another car at this point is the problem. If we had it - we'd happily get rid of this car. As we don't - we can't.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Dude, pick up a scan tool if your car is 1996 or newer. A CEL (check engine light) won't indicate a bad thermostat but it will indicate a bad coolant temperature sensor. So your initial repair was incorrect. You are very lucky you didn't blow a head gasket.

Sure.... take them to small claims court. And I've never sued anyone (not that I wouldn't).

scan tool (just one example)

Scan tool can be used for 1996 or newer (OBD2) or 1996 and older (OBD1), it tells you what is the problem (coolant sensor code#Pxxxx), but it doesn't tell you the cause of the problem (over heated engine, loose connection at the sensor terminal...or failed PCM power control module).

i agree with you, it is good to have one at least to know which system failed.

The code that came up was "Coolant system performance error" with the numeric error code beginning with P. The first mechanic I spoke to said he couldn't pin it down to a specific problem as it was basically a generic engine code that could relate to one of several things.

[natty bumppo 297]

Having the money to buy another car at this point is the problem. If we had it - we'd happily get rid of this car. As we don't - we can't.

GBP vs USD ... you spend so much time on VJ during the day ... you mean you're not independently wealthy

[Ban Hammer 13,342]

food for thought - many auto parts stores can scan the code too - for free.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Having the money to buy another car at this point is the problem. If we had it - we'd happily get rid of this car. As we don't - we can't.

GBP vs USD ... you spend so much time on VJ during the day ... you mean you're not independently wealthy

Not in this economy.

[Ggreen 12]

Dude, pick up a scan tool if your car is 1996 or newer. A CEL (check engine light) won't indicate a bad thermostat but it will indicate a bad coolant temperature sensor. So your initial repair was incorrect. You are very lucky you didn't blow a head gasket.

Sure.... take them to small claims court. And I've never sued anyone (not that I wouldn't).

scan tool (just one example)

Scan tool can be used for 1996 or newer (OBD2) or 1996 and older (OBD1), it tells you what is the problem (coolant sensor code#Pxxxx), but it doesn't tell you the cause of the problem (over heated engine, loose connection at the sensor terminal...or failed PCM power control module).

i agree with you, it is good to have one at least to know which system failed.

The code that came up was "Coolant system performance error" with the numeric error code beginning with P. The first mechanic I spoke to said he couldn't pin it down to a specific problem as it was basically a generic engine code that could relate to one of several things.

Generic codes start with # 1 (P#1xxx). if he has a good scanner he can get the code and the definition, if not he can only read the code number.

do you know the complete code? check the receipt of payment, some garages put the code # on the receipt.

[natty bumppo 297]

serious ... look the problem through ...

can you find an independent garage that specializes in your make/model ?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Been looking for one for a while now - though we don't know many (any really) people where can give us a recommendation.

[Ggreen 12]

Here is a good read about OBD 2.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

Been looking for one for a while now - though we don't know many (any really) people where can give us a recommendation.

Like charles said.. Auto parts stores can check the code. But if you buy one you can go to the internet and post/search a message board for your car brand. This has saved me thousands of dollars.

Actron makes a decent scan tool. It's the brand I have and It works fine.

Dude, pick up a scan tool if your car is 1996 or newer. A CEL (check engine light) won't indicate a bad thermostat but it will indicate a bad coolant temperature sensor. So your initial repair was incorrect. You are very lucky you didn't blow a head gasket.

Sure.... take them to small claims court. And I've never sued anyone (not that I wouldn't).

scan tool (just one example)

Scan tool can be used for 1996 or newer (OBD2) or 1996 and older (OBD1), it tells you what is the problem (coolant sensor code#Pxxxx), but it doesn't tell you the cause of the problem (over heated engine, loose connection at the sensor terminal...or failed PCM power control module).

i agree with you, it is good to have one at least to know which system failed.

True. But the code plus the power of message boards rules!!!!

[joelunchbox 0]

Although I have limited experience with dealers, it appears to me that import dealers seem to charge a premium. Volvos, volkswagen, saab even more so. Somewhere there may be a dealer more reasonable but I just don't see it. Domestic manufacturers are not angels but domestic parts typically are quite a bit cheaper. I have been a car nut for over 35 years and been in the auto parts business for over 5 years and this is my opinion.

Keep looking for a shop you can trust.

Your car being 5/6 years old is at that point in time where maintenance really comes into play. Poor maintenance/no maintenance of cooling system (flush and replace coolant) may have had something to do with your problem. On many vehicles there are at least two coolant temp sensors--one for the computer and one for the fan. Cooling problems can be simple and then there are the ones that just have you pulling your hair out. It takes a dedicated mechanic to get to the heart of the matter.

Also, some cars are easier to work on than others--I dread the day I have to work on a new beetle. styling came first on those cars.