Religion - how big a load of bollox is it?

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Looking beyond the provocative and somewhat insulting remarks about religion, I think that the OP really takes issue with blind obedience or radical fundamentalism of a religion. Generally speaking, if someone says they will do something or not do something because some form of authority told them so, that's a weak reason. Everyone must grapple with whatever truth is being given to them from another source, whether it's a holy book, a religious leader, or God speaking to them directly. We cannot remove our own sense of reason or our intellect when we follow a religion without it becoming cultish.

[Big Papa Zone 93]

Looking beyond the provocative and somewhat insulting remarks about religion, I think that the OP really takes issue with blind obedience or radical fundamentalism of a religion. Generally speaking, if someone says they will do something or not do something because some form of authority told them so, that's a weak reason. Everyone must grapple with whatever truth is being given to them from another source, whether it's a holy book, a religious leader, or God speaking to them directly. We cannot remove our own sense of reason or our intellect when we follow a religion without it becoming cultish.

That's probably a more eloquent way of putting it, Jabberwocky, but I have to say I prefered this take on things from PlatyPius:

I wish they'd all take their god and shove it up their a$es. I am REALLY tired of hearing about it. Yet every day, the "new posts" thing is FULL of "god!", "lord!", "Jayzuz!", etc. FFS, give it a f'ing REST.

[Scott & Lai 12]

Looking beyond the provocative and somewhat insulting remarks about religion, I think that the OP really takes issue with blind obedience or radical fundamentalism of a religion. Generally speaking, if someone says they will do something or not do something because some form of authority told them so, that's a weak reason. Everyone must grapple with whatever truth is being given to them from another source, whether it's a holy book, a religious leader, or God speaking to them directly. We cannot remove our own sense of reason or our intellect when we follow a religion without it becoming cultish.

If there is a God, isn't he be definition one with authority, whose will is to be obeyed?

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Looking beyond the provocative and somewhat insulting remarks about religion, I think that the OP really takes issue with blind obedience or radical fundamentalism of a religion. Generally speaking, if someone says they will do something or not do something because some form of authority told them so, that's a weak reason. Everyone must grapple with whatever truth is being given to them from another source, whether it's a holy book, a religious leader, or God speaking to them directly. We cannot remove our own sense of reason or our intellect when we follow a religion without it becoming cultish.

If there is a God, isn't he be definition one with authority, whose will is to be obeyed?

Yes, but it requires discernment, through our own intellect and reason, to know just what God wants us to do. The very fundamental belief of a God = infinite, and human thought and language is finite. Believing that we can simply understand God's authority through human language is substituting inifiniteness with our own finiteness, IMO. That doesn't mean that knowing or understanding what God really wants us to do is futile, but it means that we may know it on a certain level, but never fully understand. So when a religion dictates to it's followers, you must do this because God said so, we should recognize we're trying to make sense of the infinite, through our own finiteness.

Edited August 18, 2008 by Jabberwocky

[chri'stina 190]

Looking beyond the provocative and somewhat insulting remarks about religion, I think that the OP really takes issue with blind obedience or radical fundamentalism of a religion. Generally speaking, if someone says they will do something or not do something because some form of authority told them so, that's a weak reason. Everyone must grapple with whatever truth is being given to them from another source, whether it's a holy book, a religious leader, or God speaking to them directly. We cannot remove our own sense of reason or our intellect when we follow a religion without it becoming cultish.

If there is a God, isn't he be definition one with authority, whose will is to be obeyed?

Yes, but it requires discernment, through our own intellect and reason, to know just what God wants us to do. The very fundamental belief of a God = infinite, and human thought and language is finite. Believing that we can simply understand God's authority through human language is substituting inifiniteness with our own finiteness, IMO. That doesn't mean that knowing or understanding what God really wants us to do is futile, but it means that we may know it on a certain level, but never fully understand. So when a religion dictates to it's followers, you must do this because God said so, we should recognize we're trying to make sense of the infinite, through our own finiteness.

I know what you mean, but at the same time I believe the bible because I feel it's true, I feel I used my discernment to make that decision, and believe the stories of Jesus were written by people who witnessed personally what happened, and I feel confident to base my beliefs on that. I am confident that they witnessed it. Even if I only had those books written by those who witnessed it, it would be enough to know what I should believe.

So I don't think it has to be so complicated all the time unless someone wants it to be. I have sought in my heart if I truly believe what I believe, and the answer I keep getting is yes. I agree no one should just go along with something without searching their own heart or investigating things themselves. But I believe what Jesus said is the final authority and I don't doubt that or have to figure out all the time what he really meant, as if those words are not good enough and I go on to make up what I think he meant. Either I believe he said those things or I don't, but I can't make up my own version of what happened when I wasn't there to see it or else it's my own made up religion. It takes faith along with discernment, and it takes believing and obeying too. I don't think it needs to be overcomplicated. We may never fully understand what God wants us to do, but some things I believe he said obviously and those don't take much thought to understand-- unless we don't believe it's true or want to make it more complicated. Certain things were said so obviously that if you go by them, you will end up also going along with the other things he wanted us to do. We have to believe if it was true that he said it or not, but we can't make up our own versions of everything. Well, we can...but how does it make it true?

[saran 0]

no discrimination based on religions pleasse

[kayandnigel 0]

no discrimination based on religions pleasse

there is a VERY fine line between being religious and being crazy and a lot of people cross that line.

Edited June 26, 2009 by kayandnigel

[kayandnigel 0]

If religion is viewed as merely a list of do's and don't's (click here if you have issues with my apostrophes), then I would tend to agree it's a lost cause. However, if a religion for someone is more of an ideology where such ideas and understanding are fluid, particularly for the individual, then it can be a great resource for personal growth.

I don't think any of the major religions were born out of an effort to bring about blind allegiance to a set of beliefs. What is damaging to religion is when someone takes a position of authority within a particular religion and defines a system of beliefs that accepts no room for dialogue or dissent. There are core beliefs or ideas that are incontrovertible such as killing another human being, however, even with such a fundamental belief it isn't absolute. If someone justifies killing another human being based on their religion or in the name of religion, they have perverted one of the core beliefs of all religions.

right on!

[one...two...tree 2,762]

If religion is viewed as merely a list of do's and don't's (click here if you have issues with my apostrophes), then I would tend to agree it's a lost cause. However, if a religion for someone is more of an ideology where such ideas and understanding are fluid, particularly for the individual, then it can be a great resource for personal growth.

I don't think any of the major religions were born out of an effort to bring about blind allegiance to a set of beliefs. What is damaging to religion is when someone takes a position of authority within a particular religion and defines a system of beliefs that accepts no room for dialogue or dissent. There are core beliefs or ideas that are incontrovertible such as killing another human being, however, even with such a fundamental belief it isn't absolute. If someone justifies killing another human being based on their religion or in the name of religion, they have perverted one of the core beliefs of all religions.

right on!

Wow! I wrote that? I must have been high.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Why does the OP hate Druids?

[Chica Yeyé 41]

If religion is viewed as merely a list of do's and don't's (click here if you have issues with my apostrophes), then I would tend to agree it's a lost cause. However, if a religion for someone is more of an ideology where such ideas and understanding are fluid, particularly for the individual, then it can be a great resource for personal growth.

I don't think any of the major religions were born out of an effort to bring about blind allegiance to a set of beliefs. What is damaging to religion is when someone takes a position of authority within a particular religion and defines a system of beliefs that accepts no room for dialogue or dissent. There are core beliefs or ideas that are incontrovertible such as killing another human being, however, even with such a fundamental belief it isn't absolute. If someone justifies killing another human being based on their religion or in the name of religion, they have perverted one of the core beliefs of all religions.

right on!

Wow! I wrote that? I must have been high.

acceptance of the problem is the first step brother

[Ana Paula 2]

My point of view is that religion is pure politics. All of them think they were right, and face this as a competition...

I believe that every religion lost the sense of what and who God is to try to get people inside, prove to them that they are right, and raise money. So much that some churches give house to theirs priest for free and pay their bills... and I ask myself "why"??

So if it is that easy, I will create a religion, say a bunch of things, make people believe in me, get their money and booom, my life is pretty much taken care of. That is not what it all shoub be about.

Not that everybody that goes to church is like that... but that is what I think about religion.

I see that some people go to church to know about the neighboors life and spread comments around the city, they are not looking for God. I can see that some people go to church with the hope that God will see and will reward them for going to church, but in their hearts they are rotting, with a lot of envy, hate, and bad energy, bad feelings.

Some people go to church to find husband/wife.

And some people go to church to find God. And I believe, honestly, that those people do find God.

I dont like to see these posts about God approving them.

As it was said, God doesnt work at uscis.

I do believe though, that throughout the process, God can give us strenght to go on, spiritual strenght, can give us his hand when we need, but never do anything for us.

If you dont go look for a job, God wont give you one and it will fall on your lap --- eeehhh - wrong. If you go look for a job, God will guide you somewhere, somehow to meet with people, and put you where you should be. I believe God will give you spiritual growth, but wont give things to you that easily.

"Oh he lost his job, god will give him another one" - No he wont. If there is no effort by our part, God wont give it to us. God is not gonna knock on your door with an application, with a NOA or an approval.

God will give you good energy, strenght, will hold you before you fall, like a father would do.

My dad doesnt live my life for me. He told me what was right or wrong, and never gave me a job, a car, he never went to school and did my tests for me, he didnt go to my university to get my degree for me. I did it myself. My dad was right beside me, and still is, he supported me, gave me strenght, gave me wise words, taught me most of the things I know, but I used all this and did it myself.

That is how I believe that God works. Exactly the same way.

Some religions make people crazy. The other day I was reading a Jeovah paper throwing stones at the Kardec spiritism. Err, I think God told us to dont judge... but oh well... These Jeovah papers were saying that only I dont know how many people will be saved... So not even them will... because its not more than 300... not even their own people will be saved? How come? It is crazy to think like that... God wont be choosing people he like more or he thinks its more interesting, will he? If so, the whole world is screwed up, but not some couple hundred people.

One day a mormom came to talk to me - Caffeine, coke, tea, coffee - all bad. Am I gonna go to hell because I drink coke? Coffee? The whole Brasil is gonna go to hell then... You cant stay in a house with a man if you are a woman and you are not married to this man. You cant have sex before marriage. I knew a mormom that did this all - lived with her boyfriend, had sex with him, used his money, his food, his house, then, when she got tired of it, she said she couldnt stay anymore if they were not married, that if he wanted her, they had to get married and have five kids, and that she couldnt do this and this and that... oh come on... really? When it was interesting, you were doing, now you got desperate to get married, you cant? This girl was the worse, ever... not that all mormons are like that, I hope not, but if you believe in something, stick with it and honor it. not even that, she did.

I believe in spirits, I believe in life after death, I believe in reencarnation (or however you write it), I believe in Jesus, Mother Mary, I deeply believe in God, but I do not go around telling people what is right or wrong because they are responsible for their own life and actions.

God is in my heart? Yes!! In my life? Yes!! And I try to be the best person I can be, everyday, throw away bad feelings, envy, laziness, throw away bad energy and try to act the best I can. God will be there for me, giving me the tools I need to get where I want to get. The rest, it is with me.

Sorry for the long post. I did not mean to offend anyone or teach anyone anything. I just think spirituality is more important than political religion, and I believe that the world is just gonna get worse and worse if people continue to try to prove that their religion is the right one and make a war of it, instead of respecting who believe and te ones that dont believe in anything.

[mawilson 2,133]

Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it. The Buddha

I have a better quote for you.

"Do not believe."

--mawilson

[Ladylethal 12]

I consider myself an agnostic, in the sense that I still haven't made up my mind about what I'd like to believe in (some sort of energy that keeps the universe expanding and changing, the idea that it's all connected and that we die and become part of it as it surrounds us, is what I lean towards right now), although I can say I do not believe in the God that most religions have, a supreme being, all knowing, etc. So in the sense of God as viewed by the majority, I'm an atheist.

That being said I respect people's faiths, but NOT religion as an institution. Indeed, religion as is it's about politics and power, it's man made, and how can they all be THE truth, right? They can't. So I usually believe that if you believe in God, you have that faith, your body is a temple, you can cherish, pray, respect, etc from anywhere, you don't have to attend a church and follow rules set by other people to be whole. But that's just me and to each what gives them comfort.

It does annoy me sometimes the ####### I hear 'cus of what I believe, or don't. I've heard from a former friend that I wasn't a creature of God 'cus I wasn't baptized to which I couldn't help but reply that hey, we have similar lives, we go to the same school, we wear the same clothes, we both have loving families and are happy, and if I was indeed a lesser being wouldn't I have to be different somehow? I mean, this is what we are. We were about 12 or 13 and she didn't know what to reply back, I am sure her mother must have told her some ####### about how she should pity me or something.

Another example is a few years ago I had a friend's girlfriend try and talk to me about religion and my beliefs and she asked me what did I do when I had a problem, who did I turn to, and I replied that I looked into myself for a solution, or to my family, and reflected over my own issues to fix them, and she said "well, I turn to God and put all my heart into praying and knowing he'll help me overcome that" and then she went on to say that what I did was an escape, that I was running away from things instead of facing the truth of faith. Of course we got into a big argument 'cus I told her that going by her logic, she was running away if she'll just say it's up to Him and wait for an answer instead of going after it herself.

Oh well, the subject makes me angry.

Edited June 28, 2009 by Ladylethal