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Religion - how big a load of bollox is it?

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How fucked up is is religion?  

60 members have voted

  1. 1. Well??

    • Totally - not once haas anyone ever seen such a rise of pure hypocrisy
      29
    • Only partly, depending on your choice of faith
      16
    • Not at all - God is da man
      15


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i thought the motto around here is if you don't like it don't read it :whistle::P

That only applies to the posts themselves. I can't unread a thread title on the "View New Posts" thing once I've read it. If you don't use it, click on it sometime. You'll see the first page is occasionally dominated by topics such as "God is Good! APPROVED!!!11" and such. After a certain amount of time seeing these every single day, I just feel nothing but disgust. I can't understand how a person could believe such #######.

Athiests don't post 40 topics per day with titles like "THERE IS NO GOD!", "Visa received without 'divine' assistance!" so I know "we" aren't annoying Xtians as much as they are annoying us.

oh believe me, I do get annoyed but its not that serious to have a topic or post or stir a pot over if you did something like that... I would only consider the source, your atheist so naturally your topic would be of such, we are christian so naturally we would include something of the sort...

I would suggest that, rather than argue about hypotheticals, we conduct an experiment. From now on when any non-theistic person posts a thread it should begin with "Thank the Flying Spaghetti Monster..." or "Praise the Flying Spaghetti Monster..." his noodliness has delivered our visa! Then we will just wait and see if the theistic posters take it in stride or become irritated.

Deal?

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yes you can.. by why rip people apart about what they believe...?? I don't see the people who believe in GOD doing that to you in this thread...

maybe they are tired of being told they can't talk about God or they are stupid for believing what they do..

I'm not ripping anyone apart, Marilyn. Nor have I stated that anyone is "stupid" either. I'm simply voicing my viewpoint, that's all.

Interestingly, I've yet to recieve any kind of plausible pro-religious argument from my original post - would you care to comment?

But it is very interesting to note that the response is not a reasoned argument but to accuse you (without evidence) of persecuting them. Old habits die hard.

most of us already put up with being called stupid etc for believing in God.......

but the relevant point being...not by anyone here...

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Right, I've just been watching a documentary that chronicled the life of the late Evel Knievel. Toward the end of his life, when he knew he was ill and his time was short, he (and here's a surprise) "found God" and was baptised. He then gave a truly toe-curling speech about how he'd been such a sinner, but "not any more" and was now assured of a place in that great non-existant idyll in the sky, heaven.

A few years ago, I watched another TV programme about the IRA (Irish Republican Army, paramilitary organisation that demanded a united Ireland and were prepared to use any means at all to achieve their aim, for those who don't know) and during the programme, the journo/presenter was interviewing a catholic priest about the fate of those that killed and maimed innocent people in the name of their cause, and suggested to the priest that such individuals were surely destined to burn in hell (after all, "thou shalt not kill" right?). Not necessarily so, according to the padre, because just before the guy blew himself and countless others up, he may have "repented." Oh, well that's alright then.

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I've gleaned from both these TV shows and various other forms of bible-bashing media, it would seem that I can do what the #### I like throughout my time on Earth, with no regard whatsoever for the well-being of my fellow man, just as long as I get scared just before I die and say sorry, yes?

What a load of utter codswallop.

So come on then VJ God-botherers ( and there's a shed load of you it seems) come vote, and tell me why I'm wrong.

I think your assessment is correct but I'm surprised that a Catholic priest would say that. Their position for a long time has been that a formal confession is required. They have in the past said that if you commit a mortal sin, are on your way to the church to confess it, and are hit by a bus and killed..straight to hell because you didn't get to confession. Apparently their is no confessional at the pearly gates although maybe recently one has been installed and doctrine has changed. Of course, when one is speaking of a being and a world created in one's mind, it can be stretched and contorted to allow any behavior. The imagination knows no bounds.

When the Roman church decided that no priests should be married, after first declaring that no currently single priests could enter into marriage, they decided to send their forces out to round up the remaining wives. They sold those wives into slavery and their official explanation was that by agreeing to marry, they had already agreed to be slaves, so the church did nothing to them they hadn't done to themselves. :blush:

I received a pamphlet on my door a few days ago from a local baptist church. Its title is "how to know for sure 100% you're going to heaven in 4 easy steps." Once I stopped laughing I read through it and it struck me that the marketing for this scam is very similar to the people that illegal immigrants pay to get them into America.

First one talks up a future destination. In one case imaginary in the other with highly inflated claims. Next convince people they need your help. In this case the first step to christ is to accept what a sinner you are. Maybe I am and maybe I'm not but this bozo apparently knows me! Too many people buy into this you're defective and need my help line or the you're in the wrong country and need my help line.

Once immigrants get to the US they are often told that they now owe an almost impossible to repay amount and must work for the scammer. Guess what step 2 to Jay-sus is? You must realize that as the sinner I just defined you to be, you owe a penalty! Third is that my imaginary buddy jaysus paid your debt and you owe us! Exactly the same scam. Haha.

Fourth is that you must give yourself over completely to my imaginary friend (i.e. do what I say) because he paid the debt for you.

What is the difference between that and a foreign woman who is smuggled into the country and then told that Mr. soandso paid her big debt to get here and now she must give her body over completely to his prostitution business to try to pay the debt, which of course, will never actually be paid.

The sad thing is that people aren't smart enough to grow up and see that thousands of other people have created different imaginary friends in the same way. It's also sad that people feel so bad about themselves that the agree when someone says you are bad and need my help.

I, myself, am a non-theistic buddhist. Why do the western religions find the eastern religions so fear inspiring?...

Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it. The Buddha

Read, anayized, rejected.

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yes you can.. by why rip people apart about what they believe...?? I don't see the people who believe in GOD doing that to you in this thread...

maybe they are tired of being told they can't talk about God or they are stupid for believing what they do..

I'm not ripping anyone apart, Marilyn. Nor have I stated that anyone is "stupid" either. I'm simply voicing my viewpoint, that's all.

Interestingly, I've yet to recieve any kind of plausible pro-religious argument from my original post - would you care to comment?

But it is very interesting to note that the response is not a reasoned argument but to accuse you (without evidence) of persecuting them. Old habits die hard.

most of us already put up with being called stupid etc for believing in God.......

but the relevant point being...not by anyone here...

you are kidding right? have you read this thread? :P

no one has specifically said, "hey you're stupid for believing in God" but it certainly has been implied by a lot of statements in this thread..

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All I am going to say is that IMHO, there's a big difference between religion and personal faith.

And yes, I believe in God, and yes I believe He is real.

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and I don't have anything specific to say about the original post because I have no idea what it is trying to say...

All I am going to say is that IMHO, there's a big difference between religion and personal faith.

And yes, I believe in God, and yes I believe He is real.

yes that's true :thumbs:

I do believe inGod but not in organized religion :no:

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psst: I'm a Christian. A Catholic Christian even. I have utmost faith and belief in God, though I also recognize, acknowledge, and exercise my free will. I'm also one of those crazy PNW Tree Huggin' Liberals :)

To the OP, I can only say that some people, IMHO, misuse and misunderstand faith and spirituality, which are not the same as religion. Also, the Catholic Church has had and still does have many flaws, but it is also filled with men and women who work tirelessly for social justice, which is the draw for me. I've met terrible priests and nuns, and amazing priests and nuns, as well as lay people.

I also have plenty of friends who are atheist and while I do not agree with them, I love them and we work around it.

I am not ashamed to admit my faith, but neither will I use it as an excuse.

Oh yeah, I and I don't believe in confession (the Catholic kind) as I think I can just pray on my own and I don't need a go-between.

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Right, I've just been watching a documentary that chronicled the life of the late Evel Knievel. Toward the end of his life, when he knew he was ill and his time was short, he (and here's a surprise) "found God" and was baptised. He then gave a truly toe-curling speech about how he'd been such a sinner, but "not any more" and was now assured of a place in that great non-existant idyll in the sky, heaven.

A few years ago, I watched another TV programme about the IRA (Irish Republican Army, paramilitary organisation that demanded a united Ireland and were prepared to use any means at all to achieve their aim, for those who don't know) and during the programme, the journo/presenter was interviewing a catholic priest about the fate of those that killed and maimed innocent people in the name of their cause, and suggested to the priest that such individuals were surely destined to burn in hell (after all, "thou shalt not kill" right?). Not necessarily so, according to the padre, because just before the guy blew himself and countless others up, he may have "repented." Oh, well that's alright then.

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I've gleaned from both these TV shows and various other forms of bible-bashing media, it would seem that I can do what the #### I like throughout my time on Earth, with no regard whatsoever for the well-being of my fellow man, just as long as I get scared just before I die and say sorry, yes?

What a load of utter codswallop.

So come on then VJ God-botherers ( and there's a shed load of you it seems) come vote, and tell me why I'm wrong.

I think your assessment is correct but I'm surprised that a Catholic priest would say that. Their position for a long time has been that a formal confession is required. They have in the past said that if you commit a mortal sin, are on your way to the church to confess it, and are hit by a bus and killed..straight to hell because you didn't get to confession. Apparently their is no confessional at the pearly gates although maybe recently one has been installed and doctrine has changed. Of course, when one is speaking of a being and a world created in one's mind, it can be stretched and contorted to allow any behavior. The imagination knows no bounds.

When the Roman church decided that no priests should be married, after first declaring that no currently single priests could enter into marriage, they decided to send their forces out to round up the remaining wives. They sold those wives into slavery and their official explanation was that by agreeing to marry, they had already agreed to be slaves, so the church did nothing to them they hadn't done to themselves. :blush:

I received a pamphlet on my door a few days ago from a local baptist church. Its title is "how to know for sure 100% you're going to heaven in 4 easy steps." Once I stopped laughing I read through it and it struck me that the marketing for this scam is very similar to the people that illegal immigrants pay to get them into America.

First one talks up a future destination. In one case imaginary in the other with highly inflated claims. Next convince people they need your help. In this case the first step to christ is to accept what a sinner you are. Maybe I am and maybe I'm not but this bozo apparently knows me! Too many people buy into this you're defective and need my help line or the you're in the wrong country and need my help line.

Once immigrants get to the US they are often told that they now owe an almost impossible to repay amount and must work for the scammer. Guess what step 2 to Jay-sus is? You must realize that as the sinner I just defined you to be, you owe a penalty! Third is that my imaginary buddy jaysus paid your debt and you owe us! Exactly the same scam. Haha.

Fourth is that you must give yourself over completely to my imaginary friend (i.e. do what I say) because he paid the debt for you.

What is the difference between that and a foreign woman who is smuggled into the country and then told that Mr. soandso paid her big debt to get here and now she must give her body over completely to his prostitution business to try to pay the debt, which of course, will never actually be paid.

The sad thing is that people aren't smart enough to grow up and see that thousands of other people have created different imaginary friends in the same way. It's also sad that people feel so bad about themselves that the agree when someone says you are bad and need my help.

I, myself, am a non-theistic buddhist. Why do the western religions find the eastern religions so fear inspiring?...

Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it. The Buddha

Read, anayized, rejected.

Great counter-argument! Are you sure that wasn't rejected, read, analyzed? :D

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If religion is viewed as merely a list of do's and don't's (click here if you have issues with my apostrophes), then I would tend to agree it's a lost cause. However, if a religion for someone is more of an ideology where such ideas and understanding are fluid, particularly for the individual, then it can be a great resource for personal growth.

I don't think any of the major religions were born out of an effort to bring about blind allegiance to a set of beliefs. What is damaging to religion is when someone takes a position of authority within a particular religion and defines a system of beliefs that accepts no room for dialogue or dissent. There are core beliefs or ideas that are incontrovertible such as killing another human being, however, even with such a fundamental belief it isn't absolute. If someone justifies killing another human being based on their religion or in the name of religion, they have perverted one of the core beliefs of all religions.

I think that your commentary ignores the fact that the system itself seems to lead to "power over" relationships in everyday practice. The system is custom made for psychopathic con men to achieve their goals, yet we wonder why we discover so many psychopathic con men clerics.

Your point seems to be that if religion were something other than what it is, it could be a great thing. Probably true, but a non-sequiter. You feel that it is wrong if a person justifies killing based on their religious beliefs but I don't think that many western religions would agree with you. The OT commands you to stone to death a child who defies you. Is the bible not an indication of the core beliefs of christianity? A great saint of christianity, Augustine, wrote a book on "just war". Has he been denounced by the religion? No. In fact his principles of "just war" are still being quoted to defend the killing of other humans.

Many christians are fond of the phrase "inerrant word of god" these days, yet of the 602 commandments in the OT they seem to only be able to recall 10, and they have difficulty with those.

The leaders who are taking rigid positions on religion are dead. They are the human beings who wrote the torah, the gospels, the koran. People's blind allegiance leads them to accept the rigid views of these long dead authors as commandment. So the problem can't be with these dead people. The problem must be with the living people who say this author is always right and then project the writing of that author onto an imaginary sky creature that cause the problems. Those eager to be lead are as culpable as those who are eager to lead.

Projecting our problems into the sky may at times be comforting but it isn't an effective way to deal with earthly problems and so we fight and kill and say somehow it must all be OK.

So yes, if religion were not religion and was more like the philosophy of the buddha stated above, it could be a great thing. The problem is that it isn't.

That's why I'm saying a religion to me and probably a lot of people anyway, is more a philosophy than merely a set of mandates that are above question or scrutiny. What amazes me is how many critics of religion openly criticize the Bible while failing to realize that not every Christian religion regards the Bible as as some dictate from God. You're basing your limited understanding based on a very narrow view of the Bible....that every word written is a mandate from God. On the contrary, there are many Christian religions who don't regard every word in the Bible as a dictate from God, but a divinely inspired, yet humanly written piece of work, open to discernment as to what truths exist within it.

Christianity then, is not born out of the Bible, but rather the Bible is defined through the philosophy of Christianity....remembering the Golden Rule, love your neighbor as yourself, etc. When you look at the philosophy of Christianity it parallels many teachings of Buddhism. Truth is not something that can be hammered into stone or dictated from a God above...it is something which any person searching for it, through their own thought and reason, must grapple to understand. Truth in a sense has to do with an individual's perspective and understanding of that religion or philosophy. Some may call that Relativism, but I think it's more a deeper personal understanding and experience of a religion, rather than being blindly obedient to a set of rules that somehow represent Truth.

Edited by Jabberwocky
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As we studied tonight in our church service, there is only one "law" in 3 parts: Love God, love your neighbor, and love yourself. If you can do that, then really, all else should fall into place.

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All I am going to say is that IMHO, there's a big difference between religion and personal faith.

And yes, I believe in God, and yes I believe He is real.

:thumbs:

IMO this thread is not a "let's have a nice open discussion about religion" but basically an insult to people that have faith or believe in a religion and then you(The OP) want them to explain to you why you should change your mind. Puh-lease! Calling people God-botherers sure doesn't help. I think you have to do your own searching if you want answers, because it doesn't seem you actually want answers, you just wanted to express how much you dislike religion. And your expression of the non-existent heaven thing, I am glad you have all the answers. Your question "how big a load of bollox is it?" is quite a biased question.

Maybe I should start polls about everything I think is stupid just so people know I think it's stupid. Some people can't help but complain about religious people all the time. I am sick of hearing that myself, and some are sick of hearing me or others thank God. So?

Well, thank God we live in the US where we are allowed to have this faith if we want to. Thank God it has helped my life. I will thank God for any thing I want to. Thank God some of those who are so bitter about faith and etc aren't in charge of the world or my life.

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Ishu tum he mere Prabhu:::Jesus you are my Lord

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it seems like your personal issue is with GOD and not the rest of us... why bother getting mad at us... we believe what we believe as you believe what you believe. Im not mad at you for what you are choosing regardless of if I agree with you or not. Theres alot of unbelieving people around VJ and the world... Im not hating on them...

:thumbs:

I know my last post was a bit attitude-y but it's because I am getting sick of people insulting those who have faith just because they don't. I am not going to just say nothing every time I have to read about someone going on and on about how they can't stand to see people talk about their faith or say "thank God". No matter how nice you try to be to some people, and try to show that not all Christians are pushy or mean, they won't hesitate to insult you anyway and pass judgment on all people of faith. I guess that's the way life is. It's kind of funny when very judgmental people aren't even religious at all.

Married since 9-18-04(All K1 visa & GC details in timeline.)

Ishu tum he mere Prabhu:::Jesus you are my Lord

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