Religion - how big a load of bollox is it?

[Big Papa Zone 93]

Right, I've just been watching a documentary that chronicled the life of the late Evel Knievel. Toward the end of his life, when he knew he was ill and his time was short, he (and here's a surprise) "found God" and was baptised. He then gave a truly toe-curling speech about how he'd been such a sinner, but "not any more" and was now assured of a place in that great non-existant idyll in the sky, heaven.

A few years ago, I watched another TV programme about the IRA (Irish Republican Army, paramilitary organisation that demanded a united Ireland and were prepared to use any means at all to achieve their aim, for those who don't know) and during the programme, the journo/presenter was interviewing a catholic priest about the fate of those that killed and maimed innocent people in the name of their cause, and suggested to the priest that such individuals were surely destined to burn in hell (after all, "thou shalt not kill" right?). Not necessarily so, according to the padre, because just before the guy blew himself and countless others up, he may have "repented." Oh, well that's alright then.

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I've gleaned from both these TV shows and various other forms of bible-bashing media, it would seem that I can do what the #### I like throughout my time on Earth, with no regard whatsoever for the well-being of my fellow man, just as long as I get scared just before I die and say sorry, yes?

What a load of utter codswallop.

So come on then VJ God-botherers ( and there's a shed load of you it seems) come vote, and tell me why I'm wrong.

[Marilyn. 340]

wow

[Wei&Shu(Joe) 2]

Right, I've just been watching a documentary that chronicled the life of the late Evel Knievel. Toward the end of his life, when he knew he was ill and his time was short, he (and here's a surprise) "found God" and was baptised. He then gave a truly toe-curling speech about how he'd been such a sinner, but "not any more" and was now assured of a place in that great non-existant idyll in the sky, heaven.

A few years ago, I watched another TV programme about the IRA (Irish Republican Army, paramilitary organisation that demanded a united Ireland and were prepared to use any means at all to achieve their aim, for those who don't know) and during the programme, the journo/presenter was interviewing a catholic priest about the fate of those that killed and maimed innocent people in the name of their cause, and suggested to the priest that such individuals were surely destined to burn in hell (after all, "thou shalt not kill" right?). Not necessarily so, according to the padre, because just before the guy blew himself and countless others up, he may have "repented." Oh, well that's alright then.

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I've gleaned from both these TV shows and various other forms of bible-bashing media, it would seem that I can do what the #### I like throughout my time on Earth, with no regard whatsoever for the well-being of my fellow man, just as long as I get scared just before I die and say sorry, yes?

What a load of utter codswallop.

So come on then VJ God-botherers ( and there's a shed load of you it seems) come vote, and tell me why I'm wrong.

I think your assessment is correct but I'm surprised that a Catholic priest would say that. Their position for a long time has been that a formal confession is required. They have in the past said that if you commit a mortal sin, are on your way to the church to confess it, and are hit by a bus and killed..straight to hell because you didn't get to confession. Apparently their is no confessional at the pearly gates although maybe recently one has been installed and doctrine has changed. Of course, when one is speaking of a being and a world created in one's mind, it can be stretched and contorted to allow any behavior. The imagination knows no bounds.

When the Roman church decided that no priests should be married, after first declaring that no currently single priests could enter into marriage, they decided to send their forces out to round up the remaining wives. They sold those wives into slavery and their official explanation was that by agreeing to marry, they had already agreed to be slaves, so the church did nothing to them they hadn't done to themselves.

I received a pamphlet on my door a few days ago from a local baptist church. Its title is "how to know for sure 100% you're going to heaven in 4 easy steps." Once I stopped laughing I read through it and it struck me that the marketing for this scam is very similar to the people that illegal immigrants pay to get them into America.

First one talks up a future destination. In one case imaginary in the other with highly inflated claims. Next convince people they need your help. In this case the first step to christ is to accept what a sinner you are. Maybe I am and maybe I'm not but this bozo apparently knows me! Too many people buy into this you're defective and need my help line or the you're in the wrong country and need my help line.

Once immigrants get to the US they are often told that they now owe an almost impossible to repay amount and must work for the scammer. Guess what step 2 to Jay-sus is? You must realize that as the sinner I just defined you to be, you owe a penalty! Third is that my imaginary buddy jaysus paid your debt and you owe us! Exactly the same scam. Haha.

Fourth is that you must give yourself over completely to my imaginary friend (i.e. do what I say) because he paid the debt for you.

What is the difference between that and a foreign woman who is smuggled into the country and then told that Mr. soandso paid her big debt to get here and now she must give her body over completely to his prostitution business to try to pay the debt, which of course, will never actually be paid.

The sad thing is that people aren't smart enough to grow up and see that thousands of other people have created different imaginary friends in the same way. It's also sad that people feel so bad about themselves that the agree when someone says you are bad and need my help.

I, myself, am a non-theistic buddhist. Why do the western religions find the eastern religions so fear inspiring?...

Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it. The Buddha

[Jenn! 918]

Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it. The Buddha

I like that.

[Big Papa Zone 93]

Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it. The Buddha

I like that.

So do I. Because it makes absolute sense. As does the rest of your post. Good for you.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

If religion is viewed as merely a list of do's and don't's (click here if you have issues with my apostrophes), then I would tend to agree it's a lost cause. However, if a religion for someone is more of an ideology where such ideas and understanding are fluid, particularly for the individual, then it can be a great resource for personal growth.

I don't think any of the major religions were born out of an effort to bring about blind allegiance to a set of beliefs. What is damaging to religion is when someone takes a position of authority within a particular religion and defines a system of beliefs that accepts no room for dialogue or dissent. There are core beliefs or ideas that are incontrovertible such as killing another human being, however, even with such a fundamental belief it isn't absolute. If someone justifies killing another human being based on their religion or in the name of religion, they have perverted one of the core beliefs of all religions.

Edited August 17, 2008 by Jabberwocky

[Wei&Shu(Joe) 2]

If religion is viewed as merely a list of do's and don't's (click here if you have issues with my apostrophes), then I would tend to agree it's a lost cause. However, if a religion for someone is more of an ideology where such ideas and understanding are fluid, particularly for the individual, then it can be a great resource for personal growth.

I don't think any of the major religions were born out of an effort to bring about blind allegiance to a set of beliefs. What is damaging to religion is when someone takes a position of authority within a particular religion and defines a system of beliefs that accepts no room for dialogue or dissent. There are core beliefs or ideas that are incontrovertible such as killing another human being, however, even with such a fundamental belief it isn't absolute. If someone justifies killing another human being based on their religion or in the name of religion, they have perverted one of the core beliefs of all religions.

I think that your commentary ignores the fact that the system itself seems to lead to "power over" relationships in everyday practice. The system is custom made for psychopathic con men to achieve their goals, yet we wonder why we discover so many psychopathic con men clerics.

Your point seems to be that if religion were something other than what it is, it could be a great thing. Probably true, but a non-sequiter. You feel that it is wrong if a person justifies killing based on their religious beliefs but I don't think that many western religions would agree with you. The OT commands you to stone to death a child who defies you. Is the bible not an indication of the core beliefs of christianity? A great saint of christianity, Augustine, wrote a book on "just war". Has he been denounced by the religion? No. In fact his principles of "just war" are still being quoted to defend the killing of other humans.

Many christians are fond of the phrase "inerrant word of god" these days, yet of the 602 commandments in the OT they seem to only be able to recall 10, and they have difficulty with those.

The leaders who are taking rigid positions on religion are dead. They are the human beings who wrote the torah, the gospels, the koran. People's blind allegiance leads them to accept the rigid views of these long dead authors as commandment. So the problem can't be with these dead people. The problem must be with the living people who say this author is always right and then project the writing of that author onto an imaginary sky creature that cause the problems. Those eager to be lead are as culpable as those who are eager to lead.

Projecting our problems into the sky may at times be comforting but it isn't an effective way to deal with earthly problems and so we fight and kill and say somehow it must all be OK.

So yes, if religion were not religion and was more like the philosophy of the buddha stated above, it could be a great thing. The problem is that it isn't.

[Big Papa Zone 93]

So yes, if religion were not religion and was more like the philosophy of the buddha stated above, it could be a great thing. The problem is that it isn't.

So is Buddhism not a religion, but a philosophy then?

[PlatyPius 5]

Buddhism is not a religion, but a philosophy.

I have nothing against religion. I just get tired of reading/hearing people thank "god" for everything. "Our visa was approved thanks to god's will!" So....how did I get Mags over here, then? Don't thank god, thank the people who actually had something to do with your visa being approved...the USCIS workers.

Far too many people live with a regard only for the "next" world, not this one. Wouldn't it be better to live THIS life so in those .14 seconds before you wink completely and finally out of existence when you die you don't think "Holy Sh!t! I wasted my whole life!"

"God" is based on faith. This world is real. Those who live their lives for religion are choosing fantasy over reality. That's their decision. Just don't try to rope me into your fantasy OR write/talk about it ALL the time.

[Wei&Shu(Joe) 2]

So yes, if religion were not religion and was more like the philosophy of the buddha stated above, it could be a great thing. The problem is that it isn't.

So is Buddhism not a religion, but a philosophy then?

You are free to form your own opinion.

There are theistic and non-theistic buddhists in the world. Some systems are highly focused on supernatural systems and some not at all. The supernatural systems are more concerned with how souls move through the process of reincarnation and are regarded by many buddhists as allegories for how one perfects oneself in the available lifetime. The buddha said that he was not in any way a supernatural being. His contention was that what he called "buddha nature" or "buddha heart" was something equally present in all sentient beings. It is something we need to discover for ourselves through diligent work and not something that someone can bequeath upon us.

He also, I think, had the best plan for preventing his elevation to godhood and someone claiming to be the reincarnation of the buddha. His instructions were if you meet the buddha, kill him.

[~PalmTreeGurl~ 154]

Buddhism is not a religion, but a philosophy.

I have nothing against religion. I just get tired of reading/hearing people thank "god" for everything. "Our visa was approved thanks to god's will!" So....how did I get Mags over here, then? Don't thank god, thank the people who actually had something to do with your visa being approved...the USCIS workers.

Far too many people live with a regard only for the "next" world, not this one. Wouldn't it be better to live THIS life so in those .14 seconds before you wink completely and finally out of existence when you die you don't think "Holy Sh!t! I wasted my whole life!"

"God" is based on faith. This world is real. Those who live their lives for religion are choosing fantasy over reality. That's their decision. Just don't try to rope me into your fantasy OR write/talk about it ALL the time.

I would only feel like I wasted my life if I didnt have GOD in it -Tam

[Big Papa Zone 93]

Buddhism is not a religion, but a philosophy.

I have nothing against religion. I just get tired of reading/hearing people thank "god" for everything. "Our visa was approved thanks to god's will!" So....how did I get Mags over here, then? Don't thank god, thank the people who actually had something to do with your visa being approved...the USCIS workers.

Spot on!!

The individuals you speak of were actually the inspiration for this poll. I've lost count of the number of times I've wanted to respond to a "God has given us our NOA2" thread with a "ya know, the last time I checked, God didn't work for USCIS" but thus far, have refrained from doing so!

[~PalmTreeGurl~ 154]

It seems as though you have such an issue for us who do believe in GOD, why not just worry about the posts that dont include GOD then you dont have to worry about a thing...

[PlatyPius 5]

Buddhism is not a religion, but a philosophy.

I have nothing against religion. I just get tired of reading/hearing people thank "god" for everything. "Our visa was approved thanks to god's will!" So....how did I get Mags over here, then? Don't thank god, thank the people who actually had something to do with your visa being approved...the USCIS workers.

Far too many people live with a regard only for the "next" world, not this one. Wouldn't it be better to live THIS life so in those .14 seconds before you wink completely and finally out of existence when you die you don't think "Holy Sh!t! I wasted my whole life!"

"God" is based on faith. This world is real. Those who live their lives for religion are choosing fantasy over reality. That's their decision. Just don't try to rope me into your fantasy OR write/talk about it ALL the time.

I would only feel like I wasted my life if I didnt have GOD in it -Tam

Buddhism is not a religion, but a philosophy.

I have nothing against religion. I just get tired of reading/hearing people thank "god" for everything. "Our visa was approved thanks to god's will!" So....how did I get Mags over here, then? Don't thank god, thank the people who actually had something to do with your visa being approved...the USCIS workers.

Spot on!!

The individuals you speak of were actually the inspiration for this poll. I've lost count of the number of times I've wanted to respond to a "God has given us our NOA2" thread with a "ya know, the last time I checked, God didn't work for USCIS" but thus far, have refrained from doing so!

The person quoted above, as well as most of the Philippines forum, are what REALLY make me hate religion. I wish they'd all take their god and shove it up their a$$es. I am REALLY tired of hearing about it. Yet every day, the "new posts" thing is FULL of "god!", "lord!", "Jayzuz!", etc. FFS, give it a f'ing REST.

[~PalmTreeGurl~ 154]

it seems like your personal issue is with GOD and not the rest of us... why bother getting mad at us... we believe what we believe as you believe what you believe. Im not mad at you for what you are choosing regardless of if I agree with you or not. Theres alot of unbelieving people around VJ and the world... Im not hating on them...