Understanding Immigration with Gumballs (YouTube)

[Heracles 417]

There certainly is enough poverty and hardship in the US outside of the immigrant population to suggest that is not the causative factor of the underlying economic conditions.

Simple mathematics / economics.

Lets say a nation has 1,000 people who are unemployed and 50 jobs available. What chances do these people have of getting a job if another 1,000 illegal immigrants join the pool? On top of that, what are their chances when you factor in that it is also cheaper to hire these 1,000 illegal immigrants and pay them off the books.

I hear PH talking about immigrants in general. I wonder what PH has to say at about the following two scenarios where a friend of mine was able to get a US work visa, setup bank accounts, state ID etc in less than 2 weeks. Whereas the same process to go to the UK from AUS, out of all places, took over 3 months and involved multiple interviews at various departments, to ensure his identity and legal status.

Edited August 15, 2008 by Aficionado

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

There was poverty in the US before there was an illegal immigration problem.

[Heracles 417]

There was poverty in the US before there was an illegal immigration problem.

I am not interested in the before part. I am interested in 2008 and the future. And illegal immigrants help this situation how?

I have asked this question time and time again. Why do you think so many OECD nations, with a high standard of living, have such strict immigration policies and quotas?

Why do you think a tradesmen (blue collar worker) in Australia now earns more than your average white collar worker in the US? This one is easy so I will answer it for you. Supply and Demand. Not enough skilled laborers. Consequently wages have gone up for them. Job prospects have gone through the roof for them.

There is no reason why this cannot be the case in America for Americans. Once the supply of cheap illegal labor is not an option, then companies and businesses will have to train, hire and pay the poor here. Thus one big step forward towards getting them out of poverty.

Edited August 15, 2008 by Aficionado

[Peikko 1,575]

"I hear PH talking about immigrants in general. I wonder what PH has to say at about the following two scenarios where a friend of mine was able to get a US work visa, setup bank accounts, state ID etc in less than 2 weeks. Whereas the same process to go to the UK from AUS, out of all places, took over 3 months and involved multiple interviews at various departments, to ensure his identity and legal status."

I don't have anything to say about it BY. Why? What do you want me to say about it?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

There was poverty in the US before there was an illegal immigration problem.

I am not interested in the before part. I am interested in 2008 and the future. And illegal immigrants help this situation how?

I have asked this question time and time again. Why do you think so many OECD nations, with a high standard of living, have such strict immigration policies?

Why do you think a tradesmen (blue collar worker) in Australia now earns more than your average white collar worker in the US? This one is so easy to answer so I will answer it for you. Supply and Demand. Not enough skilled laborers. Consequently wages have gone up for them. Job prospects have gone through the roof for them.

There is no reason why this cannot be the case in America for Americans. Once the supply of cheap illegal labor is not an option, then companies and businesses will have to train, hire and pay the poor here. Thus one big step forward towards getting them out of poverty.

I'm just pointing out that poverty exists and has always existed regardless of illegal immigration - every country has its share - even those OECD countries you hold in such high regard. I'm not denying that illegal immigration has an impact on the economics of the country - simply that its oversimplistic to suggest that illegal immigration is the sole, or even biggest factor affecting the country and the fortunes of the poor.

[Heracles 417]

"I hear PH talking about immigrants in general. I wonder what PH has to say at about the following two scenarios where a friend of mine was able to get a US work visa, setup bank accounts, state ID etc in less than 2 weeks. Whereas the same process to go to the UK from AUS, out of all places, took over 3 months and involved multiple interviews at various departments, to ensure his identity and legal status."

I don't have anything to say about it BY. Why? What do you want me to say about it?

My point was that other nations have deliberately made their immigration process difficult. Not because they hate immigrants but because they want to regulate and control it. In a way that serves the nation's interests as well as the new immigrants. There is no point letting in migrants in if it reduces the living standards of the middle class and poor of a country. Or if it keeps the immigrant in a cycle of poverty. Rather, they want to trickle them in so that the immigrant has the appropriate opportunities to build a life for their own.

Edited August 15, 2008 by Aficionado

[Heracles 417]

I'm just pointing out that poverty exists and has always existed regardless of illegal immigration - every country has its share - even those OECD countries you hold in such high regard. I'm not denying that illegal immigration has an impact on the economics of the country - simply that its oversimplistic to suggest that illegal immigration is the sole, or even biggest factor affecting the country and the fortunes of the poor.

Well you can simplify it. What chance does a kid or anyone have to do skilled work? In my area, not much at all. Most of these jobs are now taken by illegal immigrants. Just yesterday there was a huge bust where they discovered 50 or so people working on Dulles airport are illegal immigrants. These opportunities should be available for the people living in poverty. For those in inner-DC. Certainly not for illegal immigrants. Yeah they are people too, granted, but the government should be looking out for the Americans living in poverty first.

Edited August 15, 2008 by Aficionado

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I'm just pointing out that poverty exists and has always existed regardless of illegal immigration - every country has its share - even those OECD countries you hold in such high regard. I'm not denying that illegal immigration has an impact on the economics of the country - simply that its oversimplistic to suggest that illegal immigration is the sole, or even biggest factor affecting the country and the fortunes of the poor.

Well you can simplify it. What chance does a kid or anyone have to do skilled work? In my area, not much at all. Most of these jobs are now taken by illegal immigrants. Just yesterday there was a huge bust where they discovered 50 or so people working on Dulles airport are illegal immigrants. These opportunities should be available for the people living in poverty. For those in inner-DC. Certainly not for illegal immigrants. Yeah they are people too, granted, but the government should be looking out for the Americans living in poverty first.

I think you want to simplify it and thats the difference. Certainly we should tackle the illegal immigration problem - but we shouldn't think that we're going to inherit an egalitarian society as a result.

Pretty much the same areas that were deprived 50 years ago are deprived today - typically densely populated, inner city areas - with the whole gamut of problems: poor education funding, broken homes, generational apathy and underemployment.