Let down by USA forces once again

[Peikko 1,575]

No, I don't have any relatives who fought in the two world wars. I don't have any knowledge of what they said about their experiences. We have to expect that troops maintain a certain standard of behaviour and we have to hold them up to these standards at all times, because to not do so is to debase the value of human life and the point of having a war on 'moral' grounds at all.

[baxxy 0]

Also, being able to distinguish between acceptable behaviour and what is not acceptable in no way diminishes one's ability to be grateful to those who remain honerable during these difficult times. It's not rocket science, not all troops turn into gibbering idiots.

What's unacceptable behaviour to one is acceptable to another.

[LaL 418]

I'm not condoning the laughing nor am I judging it. Remember, war desensitizes people. When you've been out there a while, you get used to seeing people die in front of you, its a part of war. You have no right to judge them. We should be grateful that these troops volunteered to go out there. There's no draft, yet that is. Let's just be thankful that they are out there watching your back and mine, lets give them a break shall we?

I've never been to war, so I can only imagine how it f*cks with someone's mind and how it can completely change and desensitize someone. Does it look f*cked up to your average citizens, like most of us on VJ, that they are laughing? To most I would say it probably does look screwed up. But for the soldiers who have stones a million times the size of mine for being willing to spend one, two, three...tours in Iraq or Afghanistan, witnessing and the war, death, etc. that they've seen...I'm sure as #### not going to judge them for laughing. If you, from your cubicle, wish to judge them, feel free.

At what point go we "give them a break"? Abu Ghraib?

[Peikko 1,575]

Ok, did you just throw the Geneva convention out the window? Good for you, I am sure all those who lived through the tragedies of the first and second world wars will be glad to hear that what they put up with is now worthless because these days, anything goes.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

I have quite a few family members who have served in the Indian Army in Kashmir, some in Siachen.

It fukcs their heads up. It really does. And I don't blame them for it, it's the government that deployed them there.

[baxxy 0]

I'm not condoning the laughing nor am I judging it. Remember, war desensitizes people. When you've been out there a while, you get used to seeing people die in front of you, its a part of war. You have no right to judge them. We should be grateful that these troops volunteered to go out there. There's no draft, yet that is. Let's just be thankful that they are out there watching your back and mine, lets give them a break shall we?

I've never been to war, so I can only imagine how it f*cks with someone's mind and how it can completely change and desensitize someone. Does it look f*cked up to your average citizens, like most of us on VJ, that they are laughing? To most I would say it probably does look screwed up. But for the soldiers who have stones a million times the size of mine for being willing to spend one, two, three...tours in Iraq or Afghanistan, witnessing and the war, death, etc. that they've seen...I'm sure as #### not going to judge them for laughing. If you, from your cubicle, wish to judge them, feel free.

I agree that it looks bad to the average citizen, these are citizens that don't understand what it's like out there, nor really have any desire to comprehend. And it's to these people I say DONT JUDGE THEM!

[Peikko 1,575]

What I find incredibly bizarre is that anyone should defend this kind of loutish behaviour. Being at war is not an excuse to lose your moral compass and you Charles, being ex military, you should be the first one to point out how inappropriate it is for a member of the armed forces to debase the value of human life to this point. What is the point of anything if there are no values that are immutible?

[amiquechu 0]

Not every soldier has the same mental makeup. I imagine some need a dark sense of humor just to keep from going insane.

Not to mention, we don't know what those soldiers have seen out on the battle field. Maybe they had seen a similar situation where the lady out there could have been a suicide bomber, or trying to draw a soldier or two out toward her so that enemy snipers could take them out. If that's the case, I sure as #### wouldn't be out there waving her away. Who knows what the situation out there was other than those who were there?

[Ban Hammer 13,279]

you'll find that the closest many who post on this thread ever came to combat was on a playstation.

That would apply to me, however that does not make them laughing hysterically as they did any less embarrassing and shameful.

combat has the ability to imbue one with a dark sense of humor.

There is no excuse for this type of behaviour. Yes, there is dark humour in war zones, everyone accepts that but there is a huge difference between that and laughing at the potentially tragic outcome of a civillian. That's when the war machine has cracked your troops and turned them into morons.

according to you. it could well be that the bridge being blown couldn't be stopped, that they had really no options other than to watch the potential train wreck occur.

the laughter and jokes quite easily could have been just a cover for having to watch the horror of someone being blown up - ask almaty for particulars about how people deal with things like that, especially when the situation is completely out of their hands to alter.

there is a great deal of macho attitude in the military, perhaps you expected them to break down sobbing instead of doing what they did. doing so - showing any moment of weakness - would have caused whoever did so a great loss of respect immediately among that group and any whoever did so would be the butt of many jokes for the duration of his/her time in the unit.

i don't expect you to understand any of it. you can't comprehend what it's like to be in combat. all you can do is find something to condemn those out there doing the best they can in a war zone to survive, perform the mission, and return home.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

the laughter and jokes quite easily could have been just a cover for having to watch the horror of someone being blown up - ask almaty for particulars about how people deal with things like that, especially when the situation is completely out of their hands to alter.

Good point

[LaL 418]

can you justify Abu Ghraib in the same way, Charles?

[baxxy 0]

Ok, did you just throw the Geneva convention out the window? Good for you, I am sure all those who lived through the tragedies of the first and second world wars will be glad to hear that what they put up with is now worthless because these days, anything goes.

Don't compare WW1 and WW2 to this war. This is a completely different type of war, this time the enemy is not in full view, dressed in uniform for everyone to see. I'm not saying anything goes, but they sure have. Everyone must be initially viewed as an enemy until proven otherwise. For all we know, the woman in the footage could have easily been the enemy too.

[zqt3344 21]

I most certainly can, they were enemy combatants and they deserve no rights! Thank God for the USA, for without it this would be a very dark dark dark dim world!

can you justify Abu Ghraib in the same way, Charles?

[Peikko 1,575]

No, I don't expect them to break down sobbing. How pathetic. However, I do expect members of the armed forces to have one criteria at the back of their mind at all times, and that is the value of human life. If that becomes fuzzy and the military allows that to become fuzzy, then you have lost any pretence of civilization.

Mabye those who keep telling me that values have changed really are right because I have never, ever heard it acceptable to laugh at these kinds of sad and unfortunate situations.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

I most certainly can, they were enemy combatants and they deserve no rights! Thank God for the USA, for without it this would be a very dark dark dark dim world!

Hey girl, where were you? We missed you