POLL - Would you move out of the US?

[Henia 11]

Just replied to the same ques but yes already in his country!

[jenmoh 0]

Just curious about USCs affinity for SOs country/culture. I expect lots of answers will have to do with the ability to earn a living there, or leaving family and friends here. Our SOs show great courage and love for us in leaving everything they know to join us. What if the situation were reversed?

I have lived out of the USA about 2 years. I have learned to adapt and in the long run it has helped me appreciate life. I would have been willing to stay here the rest of my life if my husband had been refused the visa.

[Brad and Vika 129]

Just curious about USCs affinity for SOs country/culture. I expect lots of answers will have to do with the ability to earn a living there, or leaving family and friends here. Our SOs show great courage and love for us in leaving everything they know to join us. What if the situation were reversed?

I have lived out of the USA about 2 years. I have learned to adapt and in the long run it has helped me appreciate life. I would have been willing to stay here the rest of my life if my husband had been refused the visa.

Cool. What was the hardest area of adjustment?

[felshen 0]

I am planning to in a few months!

[Dr. Obvious 49]

I've already done it and I enjoyed it. I would go back if my husband was offered a decent job there.

[Brad and Vika 129]

For each of you that have been there and done that - Wow! I am jealous What was the toughest part of adjustment, language, culture, etc.? How long were you there, and why did you come back?

[Dr. Obvious 49]

The language was a steep learning curve. What I was taught in school was little preparation for what actually existed. The base level helped, but I went for awhile feeling really stupid. I think I mostly ended up learning the way children do, just by listening and watching and screwing up a lot. I still do not speak as great as I might like, but my understanding of the language is to the point now where I sometimes forget what it is like not to understand it.

About the culture, eh, well Germans aren't that far removed from Americans. I think the biggest challenge for me was the idea of vastly extended childhood. There is definitely a different mindset at work. Otherwise, I adapted fairly quickly and basically never missed America. I lived there for three years in several different parts of the country.

So why did I come back? The major thing that bites about Germany is the job market. It has improved a bit in recent months, but when and where I lived there, unemployment was between 12-15%. After my husband's study, I decided that we should come back here for awhile to work. There was no other reason for the return for me. My husband always hoped I would change my mind about the US (for a time, I was against going back), but never pressed the issue. Here he is finally doing what he likes to do for work, something that seems unlikely in Germany, so he is OK with being here. He also understands why it was probably better to be in Germany for the time that we were there as there are major disadvantages to living here too.

All in all, I have no idea what the future holds. As long as my husband has a decent job offer, I could go back to Germany. We could also stay in the US or try a third country. Right now, there are other things to be worked on before we get ahead of ourselves. We are at least stuck here until my husband's application to keep his German citizenship is approved or rejected by the German government. Only after that is approved can we file for US citizenship. Otherwise, he loses his German citizenship. We'll see what happens.

Edited August 19, 2008 by Wacken

[bora bora 1]

For each of you that have been there and done that - Wow! I am jealous What was the toughest part of adjustment, language, culture, etc.? How long were you there, and why did you come back?

The adjustment wasn't bad for me, the culture not TOO different, and the language easy to learn...

I actually met my husband while I was living in his country - so I really learned more about the culture by living with him...though work helped out a lot too.

I lived in Brazil for a year and I came back because my visa was going to expire (my one-year internship was up) and at that point we weren't sure where life would take us.

[Brad and Vika 129]

The language was a steep learning curve. What I was taught in school was little preparation for what actually existed. The base level helped, but I went for awhile feeling really stupid. I think I mostly ended up learning the way children do, just by listening and watching and screwing up a lot. I still do not speak as great as I might like, but my understanding of the language is to the point now where I sometimes forget what it is like not to understand it.

About the culture, eh, well Germans aren't that far removed from Americans. I think the biggest challenge for me was the idea of vastly extended childhood. There is definitely a different mindset at work. Otherwise, I adapted fairly quickly and basically never missed America. I lived there for three years in several different parts of the country.

So why did I come back? The major thing that bites about Germany is the job market. It has improved a bit in recent months, but when and where I lived there, unemployment was between 12-15%. After my husband's study, I decided that we should come back here for awhile to work. There was no other reason for the return for me. My husband always hoped I would change my mind about the US (for a time, I was against going back), but never pressed the issue. Here he is finally doing what he likes to do for work, something that seems unlikely in Germany, so he is OK with being here. He also understands why it was probably better to be in Germany for the time that we were there as there are major disadvantages to living here too.

All in all, I have no idea what the future holds. As long as my husband has a decent job offer, I could go back to Germany. We could also stay in the US or try a third country. Right now, there are other things to be worked on before we get ahead of ourselves. We are at least stuck here until my husband's application to keep his German citizenship is approved or rejected by the German government. Only after that is approved can we file for US citizenship. Otherwise, he loses his German citizenship. We'll see what happens.

Wacken, what did you mean by the above comment? My curiosity again - sorry.

[Dr. Obvious 49]

Wacken, what did you mean by the above comment? My curiosity again - sorry.

Generally, when you are 18, your parents legal obligation to support you ends. This is not true in Germany. In Germany, all parents who are deemed 'able to afford it' are legally required to pay for their child's first post-secondary education, be it an apprenticeship or university study. This includes tution (if any), room and board. Your children have the right to sue you for this support up to the age of 26 (in a few cases up to 28 or 29). When your children marry, it does nothing to dissolve this obligation. In my opinion, that is a bit ridiculous, but that is the law.

When I first moved to Germany at nearly 23, I was about ready to graduate from university and already had the legal status of a financially independant adult since I graduated high school at 17. My husband, 23 at the time, had just recently restarted studying at another university. I had no real plan for a job, but I figured I would work something out. I had money in the bank and my husband also worked part-time and did well for himself on eBay. When rent is only 200 euros a month with all utilities, well, you don't really stress out that much (We lived in a 19 sqm room in a farmhouse dorm for 10 good months after we got married. I am not joking. Everyone thought we would be divorced after a week, but it will be 4 years in a few days!). I think we lived on 500 euro a month easy. What absolutely never occured to me was that my future father-in-law was obligated to continue support of his son regardless if necessary. Like he freaked out because...I don't know what he thought exactly, like I would force my husband to sue him to support me when I had no idea this concept even existed before he flipped out about it. The idea that your parents would be legally forced to support a 23 year old married couple was just beyond me, really bizarre. Once he realized that I had no idea seriously what he was talking about and certainly had no intention of suing him for anything, he calmed down a bit. Also it could have been a partial class issue. I was raised never to expect any money from your parents. Mine just didn't have it and so I learned early to never bother to even ask. If I wanted it, I had to earn it. So, maybe that was also part of the confusion for me. My husband was raised in a family that wasn't rich, but firmly middle class with money to give their kids basically whenever they asked (I only fully realized the extent of this a few months after the marriage). That was not my background at all!

So this idea that parents have to support their children for so long creates a culture of extended childhood. Everyone there thought we were insane for marrying so horribly young. Might as well been two 15 year olds with all the ruckus. To me, I knew plenty of people who married straight out of high school. I knew plenty that married in college. 23 is youngish, but not scandlous. No one from my family batted an eye about the age. Everyone here was very supportive. So, that was also a problem to contend with. We are still the only married couple from that circle of friends, hell, the only couple still together whom attended our wedding several years ago. A few have had kids or are currently expecting, but we think we will be in our 50s before anyone we know over there marries.

It was just a whole other world of cultural expectation in that sense. With all the time you spend invested in your education, the idea of a career change over there is also a bit difficult. Night school is not that common. When you are 45-50, you are nearly unemployable, regardless of your skill. Too old.

I think the best thing about living abroad for an extended amount of time is that it gives you real perspective into life in your own country. You see more clearly the failings and the good highlights. In my opinion, Germany and the US are overall both good countries, but both have their own significant disadantages as well as advantages. Neither is really better or worse, ultimately. Your mileage will vary with country and degree of blinding homesickness, though.

[HighwayStar 0]

As some of you may know, Italy is like Germany in that respect, and even worse - I know people who live with their parents at 40 years of age, if they're not married. I left home comparatively early for Italian standards, since I was 26 when I moved to another, smaller town because of my job. Same applies to being too old when in your forties, which means you cling to your job come hell or high water. I am regarded as a madwoman by my colleagues because I'm dropping everything to move to the US, but I know what I'm doing. There are times in a person's life when you need to turn a new page, and that time has come for me.

[Cassie 8]

The USC in our relationship would move to Canada in a heartbeat.

Our ultimate goal is to have property in both countries, and dual citizenship, so that we could be in either country ASAP if needed.

[HAL 9000 96]

Did it in the past and would do so for retirement. We'd happily choose a third country for a few years before we have kids as well and are considering it in Spain.

[NavarreMan 10]

With he way things are going here, she and I are already discussing it.

[Brad and Vika 129]

Wacken, what did you mean by the above comment? My curiosity again - sorry.

Generally, when you are 18, your parents legal obligation to support you ends. This is not true in Germany. In Germany, all parents who are deemed 'able to afford it' are legally required to pay for their child's first post-secondary education, be it an apprenticeship or university study. This includes tution (if any), room and board. Your children have the right to sue you for this support up to the age of 26 (in a few cases up to 28 or 29). When your children marry, it does nothing to dissolve this obligation. In my opinion, that is a bit ridiculous, but that is the law.

When I first moved to Germany at nearly 23, I was about ready to graduate from university and already had the legal status of a financially independant adult since I graduated high school at 17. My husband, 23 at the time, had just recently restarted studying at another university. I had no real plan for a job, but I figured I would work something out. I had money in the bank and my husband also worked part-time and did well for himself on eBay. When rent is only 200 euros a month with all utilities, well, you don't really stress out that much (We lived in a 19 sqm room in a farmhouse dorm for 10 good months after we got married. I am not joking. Everyone thought we would be divorced after a week, but it will be 4 years in a few days!). I think we lived on 500 euro a month easy. What absolutely never occured to me was that my future father-in-law was obligated to continue support of his son regardless if necessary. Like he freaked out because...I don't know what he thought exactly, like I would force my husband to sue him to support me when I had no idea this concept even existed before he flipped out about it. The idea that your parents would be legally forced to support a 23 year old married couple was just beyond me, really bizarre. Once he realized that I had no idea seriously what he was talking about and certainly had no intention of suing him for anything, he calmed down a bit. Also it could have been a partial class issue. I was raised never to expect any money from your parents. Mine just didn't have it and so I learned early to never bother to even ask. If I wanted it, I had to earn it. So, maybe that was also part of the confusion for me. My husband was raised in a family that wasn't rich, but firmly middle class with money to give their kids basically whenever they asked (I only fully realized the extent of this a few months after the marriage). That was not my background at all!

So this idea that parents have to support their children for so long creates a culture of extended childhood. Everyone there thought we were insane for marrying so horribly young. Might as well been two 15 year olds with all the ruckus. To me, I knew plenty of people who married straight out of high school. I knew plenty that married in college. 23 is youngish, but not scandlous. No one from my family batted an eye about the age. Everyone here was very supportive. So, that was also a problem to contend with. We are still the only married couple from that circle of friends, hell, the only couple still together whom attended our wedding several years ago. A few have had kids or are currently expecting, but we think we will be in our 50s before anyone we know over there marries.

It was just a whole other world of cultural expectation in that sense. With all the time you spend invested in your education, the idea of a career change over there is also a bit difficult. Night school is not that common. When you are 45-50, you are nearly unemployable, regardless of your skill. Too old.

I think the best thing about living abroad for an extended amount of time is that it gives you real perspective into life in your own country. You see more clearly the failings and the good highlights. In my opinion, Germany and the US are overall both good countries, but both have their own significant disadantages as well as advantages. Neither is really better or worse, ultimately. Your mileage will vary with country and degree of blinding homesickness, though.

Wow! Thanks for the info. I was really expecting answers like language, culture, etc. I am well into a pretty successful career, and could not move to Ukraine without seriously changing my lifestyle, but the language is the #1 thing. I work on my Russian in fits and starts, and have registered for a night class this fall, but I just don't have time to develop a true fluency. It would be nice to talk to Vika's parents. It was intersting to read about the culturally specific issues that your inlaws had too. It makes me wonder...