happy to be here

[mynameisCat 0]

Hello! Like seemingly just about everyone else, I'm happy to find a place with information to help relieve the headache I've gotten trying to figure out the arcane process of being with the man I love!

We have something of a luxury in that we've had the ability to go roaming about the world while waiting for his divorce to finalize. We're trying to figure out the best place for us to reside and marry in the next year. I'm from the US. He's from the UK. We're planning on living in the US, if that's where it works out best first, and eventually have the right for both of us to live in both the US and the UK. (What the heck, it's only money, right?) Neither of us wishes to be a citizen of the other country, but both of us would like the right to live in either country, as it makes sense for us to maintain a foot in both countries for a lot of different reasons.

We currently believe we have three main options:

1) Marry in the US, file for IR-1/CR-1. Once he has the ability to work in and to go in and out of the US with no problems, we'll work on the same for me in the UK.

2) Marry in the UK, file for IR-1/CR-1, live in the US, same as above.

3) Marry anywhere legal, live in the EU (utilizing his right as an EU citizen to live and work anywhere in the EU, plus his right to have a non-EU spouse living with him), somewhere, long enough to meet residential requirements, in a country that has a consulate that will take a DCF, file a DCF. Then proceed as above.

We've been living a wandering lifestyle for almost two years, but we'd like to be able to find a place to settle sometime in the next couple of years. I currently do not have an official domicile in the US, but could get one easily enough. (I do have a street address all my mail goes to and my bills get paid from, and all that.)

I'd love to hear any and all opinions and comments about the pros and cons of the above options, and to hear any we haven't heard of yet! Thanks in advance for any comments.

I'm looking forward to learning a lot from this site, it's fantastic how much information is here! (Making some new friends would be a bonus. )

Cat

[Chica Yeyé 41]

Hi Cat; and welcome to VJ.

Option #3 sounds pretty cool --- that way you can still be together while you wait for the DCF process to go through.

, they are really helpful.

[Yiyi and Chris 0]

Welcome, feel free to post and ask if you have doubts about your case, we will help if we can!!!

[Zee Bee 61]

Welcome to VJ

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

Welcome to VJ. Sounds like you have a lot of possibilities. When the time is right you'll know what is best for the both of you.

[o0pink0o 3]

WELCOME TO VJ!!!

[mynameisCat 0]

Thanks, everyone! I'll be posting the bits of this post in the appropriate forums, I really do want to hear opinions about our options and maybe find out pros and cons that I don't know about. (Mind you, I hadn't even heard of DCFs until reading the guides here!) My brain is starting to boggle at all the possibilities, we have almost too many.

[Gemmie 142]

Can you really live in the EU with your Non-EU partner? Because technically the UK is in the EU, though getting my US partner to live with me has been something of a nightmare! Or is it just the other countries?

Welcome to VJ, there is a forum specifically for the UK as well that you can make use of.

[Hannah+Vito 0]

Can you really live in the EU with your Non-EU partner? Because technically the UK is in the EU, though getting my US partner to live with me has been something of a nightmare! Or is it just the other countries?

Welcome to VJ, there is a forum specifically for the UK as well that you can make use of.

i do know that in 2004 when i was studying in france, if i was there for no more than 3 months which i was, i was ok and didn't need a passport, but i dont think that counts if you intend to work. if i intended to stay for more than 3 months i would have needed a cart d' sejour or how ever you spell it and thats with my EU passport. (i'm the britt by the way) i would have thought that if you intend to stay in one of the EU countries and both have residency a visa of some sort would be neccesary. perhaps looking into the visa proccess for usa to uk is an option. i thought someone said it was a lot quicker that the US visas.

[mynameisCat 0]

I think the UK may be a special case. Last time I checked, technically, an EU citizen has the right to bring his/her non-EU spouse with him/her (but not a fiance/e). This does not give the non-EU spouse some of the rights that an EU citizen would have. They may not work, generally, usually having to file for residency and report to police or immigration regularly; also if the EU spouse leaves the country, the non-EU spouse may also have to go with them or face deportation of trying to get in or out of the host country -- I believe it's different for each country depending upon their own immigration laws.

And I think it might be different for the UK, but I do know that Ireland has been recently told by the EU courts that they must allow non-EU spouses in with their EU citizen spouses.

I haven't had a chance to check, and even though it's 1 am, I may go and check now, or I may not be able to sleep tonight!

[Mina76 0]

Hi Cat, Welcome to VJ!

[Alexandra_v 0]

[mynameisCat 0]

Thanks! Everyone's so friendly!

[mynameisCat 0]

Gemmie, here's a bit from the Citizens Information board of Ireland:

If you are a national of an EU member state, or of Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway or Switzerland, your family, whatever their nationality, also have the right to live with you in Ireland. Your "family" is defined as your spouse, children under 21 and other children who are dependent on you and their spouses, your parents and your spouse's parents, if they are also dependent on you.

The European Communities (Free Movement of Persons) (No. 2) Regulations 2006 (pdf) transpose EU Directive 2004/38/EC (pdf) into Irish law. The Directive allows for a wider definition of family members and applies to EU citizens only.

In order to benefit from the Regulations it was a requirement that the family member must be arriving from another EU state where he or she was legally resident. However, on 25 July 2008 the European Court of Justice ruled that EU Directive 2004/38/EC prevents legislation by an EU state which requires non-EU spouses of an EU national to have been resident in another EU state. The Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform have, therefore, removed this requirement and are reviewing all applications made for an EU family residence card since 28 April 2006, which were refused. More information is available on the Irish Naturalisation and Immigration Service website.

The wider definition of family member means:

Your registered partner (and dependent relatives) is also entitled to move with you if the host member state treats registered partnerships as equivalent to marriage. This is not the case in Ireland.

The host member state must facilitate the entry and residence of other family members who do not have an absolute right to move but who are dependent on you or whose health is such that they require care by you. Member states must also facilitate the entry and residence of a partner with whom you have a durable relationship.

This wider definition does not apply to family members of nationals of the non-EU states of the EEA (Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway) or of Switzerland.

If your family members are not nationals of the EU or EEA, they will need to apply for residence cards and may also need entry visas. There is no fee for the residence card. They will also need to register with the Garda Síochána (the Irish police force) and receive an "Immigration Certificate of Registration" (usually called a GNIB card). As dependants of an EU citizen, they will be exempt from the general fee of €100 for this certificate.

I'm going to go look it up for GB now, but since I don't know how long that would take, I thought I'd post this for you now.

Edited August 9, 2008 by mynameisCat

[mynameisCat 0]

Hmmm. So far what I've found isn't so much complicated (well, actually, it is complicated) as slightly illogical.

Basically and at the moment, if you're an EEA citizen, you have the right to reside anywhere in the EU, and you have the right to bring your non-EU partner with you anywhere in the EU...but if you are trying to bring your non-EU partner to your home country of the UK, while you do have the right to have your non-EU partner with you, you must go through the usual applications for residency and settlement.

You can marry your partner and live outside the UK for four years, and in many cases you will receive permission for immediate Indefinite LTR if you can prove the marriage has existed for four years or more and you are returning to settle in the UK.

I understand that there are apparently court cases hanging fire at the moment, because, rather understandably, UK nationals are taking exception to the fact that they can take their non-EEA spouses almost anywhere in the EU to live with no more than filing for residency cards for them, and other EU nationals may bring their own non-EU spouses into the UK by filing for an EEA family permit or residency card (and I've no idea how hard those are to get, but there's no fee for application and after five years of residence, they have permanent residence rights!), but UK nationals can't bring their partners into the UK without going through 4 years of headache, trouble, and lots and lots of money. I don't know how far those cases will get.

Doesn't make any sense, does it?

Edited August 9, 2008 by mynameisCat