Georgia/Russia Conflict

[Ilya R. 0]

Here is a page where you can read what actually is happening in Georgia,this page also has videos,they are georgian,but you still can see the picture of what is happening...

http://rustavi2.com/

Yes Terrific unbiased website....

thanks....

[Bobalouie 0]

Here is a page where you can read what actually is happening in Georgia,this page also has videos,they are georgian,but you still can see the picture of what is happening...

http://rustavi2.com/

Yes Terrific unbiased website....

thanks....

And Russian websites/news sources aren't biased? I can tell you without a doubt that the western ones are.

[Ilya R. 0]

Here is a page where you can read what actually is happening in Georgia,this page also has videos,they are georgian,but you still can see the picture of what is happening...

http://rustavi2.com/

Yes Terrific unbiased website....

thanks....

And Russian websites/news sources aren't biased? I can tell you without a doubt that the western ones are.

They are biased, but at least there some kind of similarities with information provided.(Russian/Western/European) If you read this website, its pretty heavy on made up articles without any evidence.

[Bobalouie 0]

Here is a page where you can read what actually is happening in Georgia,this page also has videos,they are georgian,but you still can see the picture of what is happening...

http://rustavi2.com/

Yes Terrific unbiased website....

thanks....

And Russian websites/news sources aren't biased? I can tell you without a doubt that the western ones are.

They are biased, but at least there some kind of similarities with information provided.(Russian/Western/European) If you read this website, its pretty heavy on made up articles without any evidence.

I see very little similarity between any of them. There are 3 story lines going on right now. Wesern/European, Russian, and Georgian. They all say different things. Russia says Georgia killed 2000 innocent civilians, Georgia says Russia has killed 1000's of innocent civilians, Western/European with reporters in country are saying "hundreds" and in some cases "dozens" which is an order of magnitude different.

Russia knows what really is going on but tell it with an obvious pro-Russian slant, Georgia knows whats really going on but tell it with an obvious pro-Georgian slant, Western/European think they know whats going on (probably dont), but everyone is telling a different story. The truth is somewhere in the middle. But Russia isnt doing itself any favors by signing a cease-fire and then instead of withdrawing their troops, or at the very least stopping them where they are, they continue to push forward for four days.

Edited August 18, 2008 by Bobalouie

[Kotenochek 0]

I am sorry that videos are Georgian,if they were Russian,russian people would come out on the streets again their president..there are over 6 000 georgian people killed...and since i have families in both countires i pretty much know whats going there...

Yesterday Russians took over village

Ahalgori,where i pretty much spent all my childhood vacations..SAd...People still get killed and raped,their houses get burned..If you guys speak Russian watch videos there how russian soldiers are stealing stuff from georgians and by the way they come from Chechnya not Russia!!!these soldiers are sick..I feel bad for them..Instead of taking care of them,thats what government does.uses their insanity...to harm civilians..

Its easy for you guys talk shitt about Georgia,if your fsmily was there you would thing differently..and again Russian web pages are like a yellow press,no even tiny thing of truth there...ust read pages on all languages availible for you and analyze..Have your own opinion,not what your government wants you to think...

[Kotenochek 0]

and couple days ago my cousine had to go through hell..since he is a driver of the train that goes through Kaspi...He had to go there to bring people back from vacations where they were stuck...On the Way Russians came in and riped clothes from women,just to humiliate,they touched them,had sex with couple,Of course Georgian guys tried to protect them,but they got beat up and some got shoot..My cousine crowled back home to his 2 babies(2,and 5 year olds),he was so beat up he cant even walk..and guess what if he done anything wrong he would be one of those 6000 that nobody cares about:(

Now think..what these people that suffer have done?Nothing!

[Brad and Vika 129]

and couple days ago my cousine had to go through hell..since he is a driver of the train that goes through Kaspi...He had to go there to bring people back from vacations where they were stuck...On the Way Russians came in and riped clothes from women,just to humiliate,they touched them,had sex with couple,Of course Georgian guys tried to protect them,but they got beat up and some got shoot..My cousine crowled back home to his 2 babies(2,and 5 year olds),he was so beat up he cant even walk..and guess what if he done anything wrong he would be one of those 6000 that nobody cares about:(

Now think..what these people that suffer have done?Nothing!

I am sorry your family is going through this difficult time. You are right, it is easy to for any of us to be critical when our relatives are not suffering. The Georgian President has a very abrasive rhetoric that makes his message very hard for some people to take. I also think there are some here who just believe in Russia (right or wrong), or don't like American policy towards Georgia.

We can all agree that the time for violence should end, and humanitarian aid needs to be delivered to the many families on both sides of the conflict. I hope things get better for your relatives, and every one stays safe® from now on in Georgia.

[Bobalouie 0]

I am sorry that videos are Georgian,if they were Russian,russian people would come out on the streets again their president..there are over 6 000 georgian people killed...and since i have families in both countires i pretty much know whats going there...

Yesterday Russians took over village

Ahalgori,where i pretty much spent all my childhood vacations..SAd...People still get killed and raped,their houses get burned..If you guys speak Russian watch videos there how russian soldiers are stealing stuff from georgians and by the way they come from Chechnya not Russia!!!these soldiers are sick..I feel bad for them..Instead of taking care of them,thats what government does.uses their insanity...to harm civilians..

Its easy for you guys talk shitt about Georgia,if your fsmily was there you would thing differently..and again Russian web pages are like a yellow press,no even tiny thing of truth there...ust read pages on all languages availible for you and analyze..Have your own opinion,not what your government wants you to think...

I hope you are not angry at me, I meant no offense. I do have an opinion, and believe me, it does not go over well with my wife. I personally think that Russia is flexing its mucsles a little bit at the expense of Georgia. Put a little fear in the masses, so to speak. Poland, Latvia, Lituania, Ukraine, all the Stans will all think twice before trying to deal with or talk tough with Russia. That is my personal opinion, based on what I am reading, and a good bit of history.

[Kotenochek 0]

I hope you are not angry at me, I meant no offense. I do have an opinion, and believe me, it does not go over well with my wife. I personally think that Russia is flexing its mucsles a little bit at the expense of Georgia. Put a little fear in the masses, so to speak. Poland, Latvia, Lituania, Ukraine, all the Stans will all think twice before trying to deal with or talk tough with Russia. That is my personal opinion, based on what I am reading, and a good bit of history.

No of course I am not mad at anybody here...all i want is violence to stop..

P.S> thanks for supporting!

[1HappyGuy 45]

Bobalouie, are you serious? Why would Russia need to flex its muscles? Have you not been following the tactics of Russia for the past few years.

Russia has eastern Europe by the short hairs regarding fuel oil and gas. They have interrupted heating oil deliveries to any country that dares to question them and cut off gas supplies. Why would Russia feel it is necessary to bomb an oil pipeline that travels through Georgia carrying non-Russian oil (it's also not Georgian oil)? They dropped trade with Estonia over a stupid statue.

Russia is testing the waters, to see how far it can push it's pressure on the FSU countries. Why do you think some countries are applying for Nato membership?

And, as a practical matter, who is going to stop them? It surely is not the USA, that was made apparent by Bush and Rice.

[Ilya R. 0]

and couple days ago my cousine had to go through hell..since he is a driver of the train that goes through Kaspi...He had to go there to bring people back from vacations where they were stuck...On the Way Russians came in and riped clothes from women,just to humiliate,they touched them,had sex with couple,Of course Georgian guys tried to protect them,but they got beat up and some got shoot..My cousine crowled back home to his 2 babies(2,and 5 year olds),he was so beat up he cant even walk..and guess what if he done anything wrong he would be one of those 6000 that nobody cares about:(

Now think..what these people that suffer have done?Nothing!

Its very sad and all, my wife's friend's grandma is from one of South Ossetian's village(Ovnevi), actually she was, until her village was burned down by Georgian soldiers, who shot 2 men and also raped and pillaged from them. All in front of the elderly and kids. She lives in St. Petersburg (my wife) and I never thought that this whole conflict could be so close to her, but this world is very small. And very cruel. Just to add, one thing she recalled is that their uniform looked very new and very "foreign" (aka supplied by US. of A.)

[Bobalouie 0]

Bobalouie, are you serious? Why would Russia need to flex its muscles? Have you not been following the tactics of Russia for the past few years.

Russia has eastern Europe by the short hairs regarding fuel oil and gas. They have interrupted heating oil deliveries to any country that dares to question them and cut off gas supplies. Why would Russia feel it is necessary to bomb an oil pipeline that travels through Georgia carrying non-Russian oil (it's also not Georgian oil)? They dropped trade with Estonia over a stupid statue.

Russia is testing the waters, to see how far it can push it's pressure on the FSU countries. Why do you think some countries are applying for Nato membership?

And, as a practical matter, who is going to stop them? It surely is not the USA, that was made apparent by Bush and Rice.

Yes, I am serious. That is where the history comes in. Throughout history, whenever a sattelite country caused a little trouble, Russia hit them with a very big hammer. There is no such thing as a handslap from the Russian government. Throughout history, the Russian government has been the one you "dont mess with" because they will take it to a level no one else wants to go to prove a point. The Czech uprising in 1968, and Baku in 1990 come to mind. Russia wants the sattelites back. At the very least they want to have unilateral control over the sattelites because Nato and the EU are already knocking at the door in several locations.

Why does Russia feel its necessary to bomb that pipeline? Because that pipeline was put in place to intentionally bypass Russia to service Europe with Caspian Sea crude and gas. When the plans were being drawn up there were two choices, one went thru Russia and the other thru the Caucasian Mts. The mountain route was more difficult and costly to build, but it did not allow Russia control of the valves and thus Russia does not control all the oil that goes to Europe, but they do control the lions share. The destruction of that pipeline means that they would control almost all of it. The bombing (and missing the target) was an intentional reminder of who has economic control without actually causing a shortage.

Russia has been flexing its muscles now for 3 years, but until now it has not made the mainstream press. 3 years ago they resumed long range TU-95 bomber flights over the pole and to Alaska, the same flights from the Cold war that SAC in the US also flew and discontinued in 1992. Bombers have been turned around by Raptors from Alaskan bases. They have also recently started harassing carrier groups as well. So, this is nothing new, the Russian government has been feeling its military oats again and seeks to prove without a doubt that they are a military power again. The Bear has teeth so to speak, and is willing to bite.

Edited August 19, 2008 by Bobalouie

[Brad and Vika 129]

and couple days ago my cousine had to go through hell..since he is a driver of the train that goes through Kaspi...He had to go there to bring people back from vacations where they were stuck...On the Way Russians came in and riped clothes from women,just to humiliate,they touched them,had sex with couple,Of course Georgian guys tried to protect them,but they got beat up and some got shoot..My cousine crowled back home to his 2 babies(2,and 5 year olds),he was so beat up he cant even walk..and guess what if he done anything wrong he would be one of those 6000 that nobody cares about:(

Now think..what these people that suffer have done?Nothing!

Its very sad and all, my wife's friend's grandma is from one of South Ossetian's village(Ovnevi), actually she was, until her village was burned down by Georgian soldiers, who shot 2 men and also raped and pillaged from them. All in front of the elderly and kids. She lives in St. Petersburg (my wife) and I never thought that this whole conflict could be so close to her, but this world is very small. And very cruel. Just to add, one thing she recalled is that their uniform looked very new and very "foreign" (aka supplied by US. of A.)

Ilya, I am sorry too for your troubles, and feel sympathy for your family. Thanks for the post, as it helps us to understand where you are coming from. It must be very tough to look at Georgia with much objectivity if your wife's relatives are on the other side, and suffering too.

Edited August 19, 2008 by Brad and Vika

[slim 1,525]

Its easy for you guys talk shitt about Georgia,if your fsmily was there you would thing differently..and again Russian web pages are like a yellow press,no even tiny thing of truth there...ust read pages on all languages availible for you and analyze..Have your own opinion,not what your government wants you to think...

My opinion is such that folks from a small country need to be extremely careful when dealing with a larger country right next door. Also, if they want to maintain sovereignty, they should take action to protect themselves and/or form alliances that will be beneficial to them.

Georgia gambled here... and lost. (They also placed a lot of faith in the U.S. but realized all to late that the U.S. had no interest in fighting Russia. Also a gamble, also a loss.)

To see a successful way of doing this, check out the Democratic People's Republic of Korea. Successfully gambling since 1953!

and couple days ago my cousine had to go through hell..since he is a driver of the train that goes through Kaspi...He had to go there to bring people back from vacations where they were stuck...On the Way Russians came in and riped clothes from women,just to humiliate,they touched them,had sex with couple,Of course Georgian guys tried to protect them,but they got beat up and some got shoot..My cousine crowled back home to his 2 babies(2,and 5 year olds),he was so beat up he cant even walk..and guess what if he done anything wrong he would be one of those 6000 that nobody cares about:(

Now think..what these people that suffer have done?Nothing!

Exactly why they're suffering.

I don't say that to be critical or harsh, I say that to open our own eyes to what is possible. Too many people take for granted that in this day and age countries still get invaded, people still get killed, and society as a whole still breaks down to it's most barbaric roots. We have a natural advantage to avoid this (geography) and have taken numerous steps (relative freedom at home, strong economic and military domination abroad) to avoid this scenario playing out on U.S. soil. However, if/when something like this happens, if the common people (train drivers, cousins, tourists) are unable to defend themselves against aggression, then the aggressors have free reign to do as they please without regard for humanity.

We're sliding into a trend of voluntarily allowing our rights to be taken away and, in turn, it's decreasing our security posture on the most basic of levels. We have to stop doing this or else we'll be subject to being overtaken by an enemy force, even right here at home.

Its very sad and all, my wife's friend's grandma is from one of South Ossetian's village(Ovnevi), actually she was, until her village was burned down by Georgian soldiers, who shot 2 men and also raped and pillaged from them. All in front of the elderly and kids. She lives in St. Petersburg (my wife) and I never thought that this whole conflict could be so close to her, but this world is very small. And very cruel. Just to add, one thing she recalled is that their uniform looked very new and very "foreign" (aka supplied by US. of A.)

Proof that "help" doesn't always come from "the good guys."

Russia has been flexing its muscles now for 3 years, but until now it has not made the mainstream press. 3 years ago they resumed long range TU-95 bomber flights over the pole and to Alaska, the same flights from the Cold war that SAC in the US also flew and discontinued in 1992. Bombers have been turned around by Raptors from Alaskan bases. They have also recently started harassing carrier groups as well. So, this is nothing new, the Russian government has been feeling its military oats again and seeks to prove without a doubt that they are a military power again. The Bear has teeth so to speak, and is willing to bite.

Why should China have all the fun?

In truth, Russia is playing it's only card left. It lacks the financial ability to compete with the U.S. (and now China) on the global market but it's still a force to be reckoned with, the good ol' fashioned way. Sure you can pay money for business and invest in infrastucture... but we can bomb you back to the stone age.

Even in the most modern of times, military might is still a pretty good bargaining chip. It works even if it's the only one you have left.... Especially if it's the only one you have left. (Once again, see the DPRK.)

[mox 298]

We're sliding into a trend of voluntarily allowing our rights to be taken away and, in turn, it's decreasing our security posture on the most basic of levels. We have to stop doing this or else we'll be subject to being overtaken by an enemy force, even right here at home.

Beers on me if our paths ever cross Slim.

In truth, Russia is playing it's only card left. It lacks the financial ability to compete with the U.S. (and now China) on the global market but it's still a force to be reckoned with, the good ol' fashioned way. Sure you can pay money for business and invest in infrastucture... but we can bomb you back to the stone age.

I disagree here. I think what we're seeing is a Russia finally waking up after the disorganization and chaos caused by the breakup of the Soviet Union. For the better part of 2 decades, Russia's been wandering aimlessly, trying to figure out what their role in the "new world order" is. And say what you want about Putin (I think he's a monster like his contemporaries Bush, Cheney, and company, only with fewer restraints) but the guy came in and pulled Russia up by the short hairs and gave them a direction. That direction currently is "we're mad as hell and we're not gonna take it anymore," specifically about Western expansion.

We may not like that direction, but Russians see any direction as better than wandering aimlessly. Russia has a lot more cards than you think. They have the largest natural gas reserves in the world. And when Saudi Arabia ships its last barrel of oil out, Russia will be the top oil producing nation in the world. And they haven't even begun to tap their natural resources such as timber and agriculture.

Russia's poised to be a powerhouse again, and there's not a damned thing the West can do about it. The question for the West is what kind of powerhouse we want Russia to be. If we want them to be more like China, then we need to treat them like we treat China, with respect and engagement. If we want a hostile Russia, then we just need to keep doing what we're doing: rhetoric, isolation, and NATO expansion. Russia cannot and will never be a Westernized Democracy, so we just need to get over that silly notion. But we can't, as our government keeps doing, say that Russia is a "strategic partner" on the one hand, and then expand NATO right onto their front doorstep on the other.