Georgia/Russia Conflict

[shikarnov 7]

True dat. However, I made a point some months ago that as long as Americans have our iPods and big screen TV's to keep us distracted, we won't really care about the inevitable decay of our Republic. But now, we have an economy that economies in shambles look at and say "damn, sucks to be you!" We have gas prices here in CA over $4.50/gallon. Consumer goods cost more and more, and even (the shrinking) middle class families have stopped taking vacations and buying iPods. So I wonder if Americans will finally start informing themselves, stop trusting our corrupt government, and start really demanding change. And truth. I think there's very little chance for this to actually happen, but I think the chances of it happening are better than, say, 2 years ago.

When I was in Russia, I found it hard to believe how little people cared for all the so-called "rights" that we cherish. Not one cared much about speech or religion. As long as they were left alone to get a decent job and had enough food to eat, they were fine and were easily able to ignore all the corruption, the propaganda, and sometimes outright violence. When protesters got beaten by police in StP and in Moscow last year (or was it longer?), he judged the protesters to be stupid morons.

Over the past 50 years, US progressives infused the "me me me" mentality into our society, we tend not to give much of a damn if something doesn't directly effect us. We sacrifice our society every day by focusing so intently on ourselves. It matters not if our fellows are being kept down, so long as our iPods continue to come in the mail, and the direct-deposit paychecks continue to be deposited.

Interestingly, even as the US became more individualistic because of selfishness, the Russians got to the same individualist point through an entirely different route: the every man/family for himself desperation of years following the USSR's demise. Now that's some interesting irony.

Edited August 11, 2008 by shikarnov

[kud 0]

But S. Ossettia, as well as Abkhasia, are an altogether different story - Russia never claimed them as its own land. Please quote where Russia ever said "this is ours now"? Russian troops in the region are strictly peacekeapers to prevent the killing of local folks by the Georgian military.

Considering that it takes decades to get Russian Citizenship if ever but S. Ossettia and Abkhasia's received there Russian Passports in weeks I would say Russia is claiming it is there land.

[Brad and Vika 129]

I'm no defender of President Bush, his policies, nor his administration. However, Pravda is a sensationalist rag magazine, even to the vast majority of the Russians with whom I interacted while there. Holding US foreign policy responsible for whatever garbage Pravda produces is hardly a fair way to measure its successes or failures.

Besides that, several sites around the globe are reporting that this was intentionally orchestrated to mire Russia with a major distraction so that they'll be less likely to intervene against an allied attack on Iran. If this was by design, and if it works well enough to keep the Russians out of the way during such an invasion, then I'd be hard press by any measure to call these moves blunders.

Yeah but that "rag" gets read by a lot of Russians. My point is that it doesn't matter what the reality is. The Bush administration is incapable of handling these perceptions on even the most basic level, and so the propaganda is allowed free reign. The US hasn't even remotely criticized Georgia for its behavior, and so the propaganda just writes itself. And our threats of "consequences" are a joke. We have a lame duck President, a congress who isn't about to authorize anything against Russia, we're bogged down in 2 wars, itching for a 3rd war, and we're gonna tell Russia about consequences? Russia's gonna be more worried about the Ukrainian blockade than whatever empty threats the US hurls their way.

I don't buy the "mired Russia" theory. The war in Georgia is of such small scale, that calling it a war is like calling an inflated condom The Hindenburg. They've got plenty of troops and equipment to bring to bear for any major conflicts that arise in Iran or elsewhere.

Sorry, did you say something Mox? I was listening to my iPod while watching my big screen plasma tv.

Edited August 11, 2008 by Brad and Vika

[slim 1,533]

Just a hypothetical here guys.... but what if the U.S. and Russia really did get in a fight someday?

Could you "man the lines" against your S/O's countrymen?

I assume the govt. would get all 442 on us and send us to fight in the sandbox instead, but could you do it now? I know there are a few of us on here who trained, at length, to do just that but has it changed now that we have a "conflict of interests" here at home?

[shikarnov 7]

Just a hypothetical here guys.... but what if the U.S. and Russia really did get in a fight someday?

Could you "man the lines" against your S/O's countrymen?

I assume the govt. would get all 442 on us and send us to fight in the sandbox instead, but could you do it now? I know there are a few of us on here who trained, at length, to do just that but has it changed now that we have a "conflict of interests" here at home?

I'm no soldier, so I'm not sure if my answer is welcome. But, if I was, I think it'd depend on location and reason.

I wouldn't want to risk being the person who could potentially put a bullet into my brother-in-law's head over some stupid foreign policy blunder, the hunt for black gold, or the protection of corporate interests overseas. I'm not sure what sort of reason would qualify ultimately. Maybe if they wrote something bad about us in Pravda, I could do it.

Of course, the need for a good reason goes out the window if they're here. I'd like to think that everybody would work to thwart an actual invasion, regardless of the reason. After all, if anybody's going to take down this government, it should be us: the fat, lazy, iPod-listening, TV-watching, so-self-absorbed-that-brainwashing-is-unnecessary American people.

[Ilya R. 0]

Sarkozy and Medvedev announce the end of millitary operations in S. Ossetia, Georgia, and Abkhazia 16.00pm local time.

[slim 1,533]

I just missed the new age cut-off for the Army, so I'm safe unless we invade Iran.

Are you insinuating there'll be a need for a draft, to include the "more seasoned" vets as well? Over 1,000,000 shaheed-hopeful Persians can't be stopped by the guys we have now? Come on! They sure do have a lot of oil... er, ah, I mean, oppressed people there.

See if you can get a waiver or something, I'm sure they could work something out. It doesn't really take too much to be an 11B. "Here's you gun and your rucksack. Now, see those guys way over there? Run at them and shoot them. HUA!"

BTW, Russia are claiming an end to "military operations," so expect to see the photo ops any day now of President Medvedev on an aircraft carier with a big 'ol "Миссия выполнена!" sign behind him.

I almost pi$$ed my pants! I hope we get to see this on the "Fair and Balanced" news.

[Brad and Vika 129]

Just a hypothetical here guys.... but what if the U.S. and Russia really did get in a fight someday?

Could you "man the lines" against your S/O's countrymen?

I assume the govt. would get all 442 on us and send us to fight in the sandbox instead, but could you do it now? I know there are a few of us on here who trained, at length, to do just that but has it changed now that we have a "conflict of interests" here at home?

Not an issue for me because;

1) I am too old

2) I am too fat

3) I am too lazy

4) I have two iPods

[Brad and Vika 129]

See if you can get a waiver or something, I'm sure they could work something out. It doesn't really take too much to be an 11B. "Here's you gun and your rucksack. Now, see those guys way over there? Run at them and shoot them. HUA!"

Heh. If it comes down to a draft, then as far as the Army's concerned, I'm a gay, flat-footed, asthmatic cross-dresser.

BTW, Russia are claiming an end to "military operations," so expect to see the photo ops any day now of President Medvedev on an aircraft carier with a big 'ol "Миссия выполнена!" sign behind him.

I almost pi$$ed my pants! I hope we get to see this on the "Fair and Balanced" news.

Anyone here handy with the photochopping?

In some more somber news, I just found out my Ukranian friend (of the bad kidneys and distrust for Western medicine fame) has a friend who only a few months ago went to Georgia for work. Nobody can get hold of her right now. She doesn't know where in Georgia she went to work, so it could just be a case of the country's communication infrastructure being overloaded. Hopefully it turns out well.

4) I have two iPods

Yeah but you just know the commies want to take away your iPods!

I understood that it was a clear disqualifier

[NavarreMan 10]

But... to get a little more deep, men with money, LOTS and LOTS of money can change the world as well. ("So what if the Security Council didn't approve an invasion. Don't you know how much oil they have there?") But, it ends up being men with guns who change the minds of the men with money. The men with the money end up hiring other men with guns and before you know it, the cycle repeats itself until either the money dries up because too many men with money now fear men with guns or the men with guns make enough money for the men with money that the other men with guns cease to fight.

I hope that wasn't as hard to write as it was to read!

All I really know about the conflict I get from our news and from Tanya and Victor. I know I cannot trust our news and Tanya & Victor get their info from relatives, friends and a variety of websites. From what I can make of it, Geogia was poking Russia in the chest for some time now and Russia pulled the ol "wack-a-mole" on Georgia. I find this fairly credible due to Russia's cease in aggression (for lack of a better term). They have not appeared interested in taking over the country and statements by Medvedev appear to support this. Their attacks were very selective v. widespread destruction.

Victor has mentioned that news reports indicated some evidence of mass executions in and around S. Osentia. I have refused to take sides on the matter due to lack of personal knowledge of the issues but I tend to lean their direction only because I believe they have better sources of factual information.

I will wait until the facts are in...

[Chuckles 0]

Just a hypothetical here guys.... but what if the U.S. and Russia really did get in a fight someday?

Could you "man the lines" against your S/O's countrymen?

I assume the govt. would get all 442 on us and send us to fight in the sandbox instead, but could you do it now? I know there are a few of us on here who trained, at length, to do just that but has it changed now that we have a "conflict of interests" here at home?

I for one could not.

If there was a war declared my wife, the hyper-Russian patriot, would kill me first in the name of "mother Russia"!

I have no doubt she loves her country more then me. She might love bread and butter more then me too... I don't know, but I am sure she loves her country more.

[slim 1,533]

4) I have two iPods

"You can have my iPod when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers."

Heh. If it comes down to a draft, then as far as the Army's concerned, I'm a gay, flat-footed, asthmatic cross-dresser.

They're still going to need quartermasters!

If there was a war declared my wife, the hyper-Russian patriot, would kill me first in the name of "mother Russia"!

Now that's a great point! I don't know if my wife loves her country more than I love mine, but I'm sure she would love to have a viable excuse to stab me in the throat with an ice pick while I slept.

Simmer down Russia. Please. Do it for me. (Sleeping with one eye open now......)

[NavarreMan 10]

:rofl: :rofl:

I do not know how to translate the lolcats to Tanya but I am going to make the effort. This was priceless!

[1HappyGuy 45]

Loved the picture of Putin. Where do you guys get this stuff? Too funny.

Well according to the news this morning (both FOX & CNN) the Russians have moved into Gori, which is south of South Ossetia. The Russians say they only moved here to squash fighting, however, it just so happens that Gori has the only road and railroad that passes from the west to east in Georgia. Maybe the Russians plan to stop the fighting by starving Georgia of all food sources.

And there were reports of Russian bombing of a strategic oil pipeline farther to the south. I'm sorry, does the flow of this oil to Turkey and then to Europe really affect the people of South Ossetia in a negative way. I guess Putin just doesn't want any competition from any FSU countries.

[Ilya R. 0]

Russia has Churches.....

Poor McCain, mentioned hundreds (what number exact?) of Georgian kills, not a single word of how many Ossetians died. This sort of one sided bullshit is what is so sad.

Edited August 13, 2008 by Ilya R.