America's Richest Will Pay More Under Obama's Tax Plan

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Plus get rid of the inefficient county systems. Counties should only be responsible for local planning issues and services.

Schools, Police, Fire etc should be handled on a state level. More buying power and less doubling up of managerial positions. Once again a highly effective approach used abroad; which saves billions a year. Money that could be better spent on those services rather than administration jobs.

I'm not sure quite how that would work either - given that police and fire service salaries vary greatly across the country. What do you think will happen there if the purse-strings are held by the Federal Government? They'll still be underfunded - and everyone will take a paycut to subsidise the rest of the country.

Interesting because teachers now start on $51K in the state of Victoria and will soon be able to earn up to $110K under a proposed performance based system. Plus high performing teachers in lower socioeconomic areas will be given a bonus to work there and improve scores.

I don't know enough about the Australian system to comment but I do agree that if the American system is broken - and it does seem to be so - then a total rethink of the tax system, both federal and state, should be up at the top of any party/candidates priorities.

It may very well be that the US can benefit from cherry picking ideas from successful systems that are working outside of the US.

That is all I am suggesting.

Why reinvent the wheel when someone else has a system that works well and better..

...

I am starting to believe you just like to argue for the sake of arguing. Which explains a lot of your flip flopping on stuff.

You can make it about me if you like - but I'd sooner you tackle what was actually said.

[Heracles 417]

Do you honestly think that redistributing the nations wealth through the Federal Government is going to make this situation better - or is it going to ensure a general level of across the board mediocrity (while the states with the biggest incomes go down the pan?)

Not a redistribution at all. Rather making the system more efficient to deliver value to the tax payer and citizen. After all this is not a communist country where the government must create and put people into BS jobs to make the system look good.

• Step one for a government in financial crisis is stop all hemorrhaging. Cut spending
• Step two eliminate all unnecessary or duplicate administration positions. Like having 30 to 4,000 police chiefs, school administrators etc, county clerks etc per state.
• Step three raises the taxes appropriately to generate revenue and eventually lower income taxes.
• Step four ensure taxes are not lost in the black market, cash in hand transactions etc.

The last two steps need to happen at a federal level. I can guarantee that if all states sales taxes were eliminated and replaced with a federal GST, more money would be generated for all states. Meaning if you compared the revenue states currently raise through their own taxes to the amount that would be collected under a federal GST, they would actually end up with more under the latter. And that has been verified by most countries who now use the GST system. Edited August 6, 2008 by Aficionado

[Heracles 417]

When I compare the taxes I pay in Aus to those I pay here I wouldn't say I pay much more there. Okay the federal taxes here are much lower but you cop it at the state and county level. For example back home we pay our county yearly rates of about ~$1,500. No matter what you house is worth. Yet I get so much in return. I do not pay any tax on my house value or personal property or school tax etc. Therefore I could have a house worth $2 million and I will generally pay the same as someone with a house worth $550K there. The only time you pay a single tax is when you buy or sell a house, which goes to the state. When it comes to personal property you only pay a federal tax when you buy it. And an additional luxury car tax of up to 18% if the car is worth over $58K at the time of purchase.

When you consider the stuff you get in return there it is easy to see who has the better deal for the few extra $$$ paid in tax. And easy to see the benefits of a state run system; rather than leaving it to every single county.

Edited August 6, 2008 by Aficionado

[Kevin and 10]

We can participate at local, county, and state levels much more easily. We can got to school board meetings or local and county board meetings. Not many can make a trip to DC to address congress or the Pres. I wouldn't want some career politician making decisions on whether its a good idea to build a bigger school or put up a new water tower when they don't live in my community.

Edited August 6, 2008 by Kevin and Tuyen

[Heracles 417]

We can participate at local, county, and state levels much more easily. We can got to school board meetings or local and county board meetings. Not many can make a trip to DC to address congress or the Pres. I wouldn't want some career politician making decisions on whether its a good idea to build a bigger school or put up a new water tower when they don't live in my community.

Under the state system local planning comes down to counties.

The states are responsible for schools, emergency services etc.

[IAMX 3,055]

We can participate at local, county, and state levels much more easily. We can got to school board meetings or local and county board meetings. Not many can make a trip to DC to address congress or the Pres. I wouldn't want some career politician making decisions on whether its a good idea to build a bigger school or put up a new water tower when they don't live in my community.

Under the state system local planning comes down to counties.

The states are responsible for schools, emergency services etc.

Kind of. States appropriate the money to each district, and the superintendent, board, and down to the principal decides how the money they're given will be used. So local school board meetings are only useful for local school rules, or maybe summer school, field trips, etc. If the school is simply under-funded, you're right in that they should go to the state to appropriate more money to that district.

[Scott & Lai 12]

Tax reform is certainly needed, but it only deals with part of the problem. At least as important is spending reform. There should be Zero-Baseline Budgeting, meaning, every program's budget each year begins at zero, not whatever the previous year's budget was. Then, every single penny of each proposed budget should have to be justified, not just the amount over the previous year. All new programs and all new tax increases should have a mandatory sunset clause, requiring Congress to vote whether to approve the continuation of each program or tax. There should also be a goal of not simply balancing the budget, but of reducing its overall size each year. Congress needs to have it drilled into its collective head that there is no such thing as "government money." The money the government spends belongs to the people who worked for it.

[kaydee457 13]

Plus get rid of the inefficient county systems. Counties should only be responsible for local planning issues and services.

Schools, Police, Fire etc should be handled on a state level. More buying power and less doubling up of managerial positions. Once again a highly effective approach used abroad; which saves billions a year. Money that could be better spent on those services rather than administration jobs.

I'm not sure quite how that would work either - given that police and fire service salaries vary greatly across the country. What do you think will happen there if the purse-strings are held by the Federal Government? They'll still be underfunded - and everyone will take a paycut to subsidise the rest of the country.

Interesting because teachers now start on $51K in the state of Victoria and will soon be able to earn up to $110K under a proposed performance based system. Plus high performing teachers in lower socioeconomic areas will be given a bonus to work there and improve scores.

I don't know enough about the Australian system to comment but I do agree that if the American system is broken - and it does seem to be so - then a total rethink of the tax system, both federal and state, should be up at the top of any party/candidates priorities.

It may very well be that the US can benefit from cherry picking ideas from successful systems that are working outside of the US.

That is all I am suggesting.

Why reinvent the wheel when someone else has a system that works well and better..

...

I am starting to believe you just like to argue for the sake of arguing. Which explains a lot of your flip flopping on stuff.

You can make it about me if you like - but I'd sooner you tackle what was actually said.

Hey! I said this very thing not too long ago.....You've characterized him exactly!

Well done!!!!

Edited August 6, 2008 by kaydee457

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Plus get rid of the inefficient county systems. Counties should only be responsible for local planning issues and services.

Schools, Police, Fire etc should be handled on a state level. More buying power and less doubling up of managerial positions. Once again a highly effective approach used abroad; which saves billions a year. Money that could be better spent on those services rather than administration jobs.

I'm not sure quite how that would work either - given that police and fire service salaries vary greatly across the country. What do you think will happen there if the purse-strings are held by the Federal Government? They'll still be underfunded - and everyone will take a paycut to subsidise the rest of the country.

Interesting because teachers now start on $51K in the state of Victoria and will soon be able to earn up to $110K under a proposed performance based system. Plus high performing teachers in lower socioeconomic areas will be given a bonus to work there and improve scores.

I don't know enough about the Australian system to comment but I do agree that if the American system is broken - and it does seem to be so - then a total rethink of the tax system, both federal and state, should be up at the top of any party/candidates priorities.

It may very well be that the US can benefit from cherry picking ideas from successful systems that are working outside of the US.

That is all I am suggesting.

Why reinvent the wheel when someone else has a system that works well and better..

...

I am starting to believe you just like to argue for the sake of arguing. Which explains a lot of your flip flopping on stuff.

You can make it about me if you like - but I'd sooner you tackle what was actually said.

Hey! I said this very thing not too long ago.....You've characterized him exactly!

Well done!!!!

you don't read very much of this forum do you...

Still the tired old manure salesman eh? Well done!!!!

[Amby 490]

#6 and I argue for sport in PMs. You guys are spot on! I'm shocked

[aidan80 9]

Marxism 101..

There are a lot more injustices inflicted on the people of the world with capitalism than there ever was with marxism or socialism.

I say tax the rich bring them down to the same level as the middle class and bring the lower classes up a few notches. It'd be nice to even out the playing field and get rid of these "classes". The greedy should pay for their greed and those most in need should get the help they deserve.

[aidan80 9]

If I was the president of the United States, I'd have everybody paying the same % of their income. I'd be fair.

If I was the president I'd tax the rich more, give the poor more help and assist the average person on the street more. I'd also reduce the amount wasted on the military and take grater control over the states and reorganise the entire system of government. Make run smoother, weed out a lot of that extra bureaucratic $hit that happens at the lower levels which we all pay for. Whats needed is a newer, faster, leaner system not the bloated beast thats crawling along just waiting to keel over.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I say tax the rich bring them down to the same level as the middle class and bring the lower classes up a few notches. It'd be nice to even out the playing field and get rid of these "classes". The greedy should pay for their greed and those most in need should get the help they deserve.

That's a concept that doesn't go over too well with many Americans who have the impression that those rich people in the upper one percent earned all their money fair and square, and from blood, sweat and tears.

[HAL 9000 96]

rich people pay more =

You commie. Expect a subpoena.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

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