K1 visa denied Cairo

[punkmada 0]

Well i think that's right. but as you know the child must be Muslim to cause of the father is Muslim and i think the CO know that .so maybe yeah its one of the red flags you have.

it doesn't matter if you are older than him .it doesn't matter if you are divorced .it doesn't even matter if you have children. there are so many American women here who are older then their fiance/husband (there are some couples have about 18 years gap ) and there are so many American women here who are divorced and have children and there are some who even have grandchildren and they got their visa without any issue .so i don't think its the problem..

Good luck . you are in my prayers . my best wishes for you

But... I don't think Eli violates the whole Islamic "good name" thing. I know there is a lot of Islamic=Arabic, but that's not necessarily the case. And as far as the child being Jewish, that's a Jewish ethnicity (and ticket to religion but the child has free choice), of course the child can be atheist, etc religiously... so I think the CO is just either personally against this or using it as an excuse. Also, who is to say that her fiance/husband is religious? I mean he's Muslim in paperwork, but who knows how he really is in his heart.. he could even convert to something else and never tell anyone... or he could be agnostic, atheist, non-religious... you know? ITA with the sentiment that the age, divorce, kids isn't supposed to matter and how many people go through this here and are approved... but... I seriously have to think it can make the difference to a CO... Like that it makes a red flag for them and then they look for other red flags which are legal in order to deny. I'm not saying Cos are "out to get anyone" but rather that sometimes, maybe, they read over a file and feel somehting isn't right in the summary of the case and the reasons stated may not always be the totality of the reasons they actually denied.

And sometimes the COs are dead wrong about their intuitions about things. But sometimes they DO see things that seem off and irregular and then they do a little investigation , sometimes even in advance of the interview and know something isnt right. They know alot more than we know they know, trust me. I think its a combination of things and not specifically religion. Here they have a guy denied for a tourist visa and then hes 14 years younger than his wife and 21 and shes 34 and shes pregnant and only got divorced the month she got urfi married which kind of looks like a married american woman going to Egypt and getting pregnant and you have to also think is they have no proof that the baby is even his ( which we all know it is) but think like a CO. Think how it looks. Everything is explainable but when all you have are cold hard facts, its hard to see the rounded edges. To overcome objections you need to think like a CO and frankly not giving the baby an arab name coupled with not giving him his last name looks very very very bad no matter how you paint it. I dont think it mattered if she were buddhist. I think its the choices she made coupled with circumstances. @100 percent she can overcome this stuff with outside help and a DNA test if everything hit the fan but it will be alot harder and longer walk for her if she doesnt exhaust that avenue

Yes, well I definitely was NOT married when I went to Egypt, I took my divorce decree with me. Just for pointers alot of people never hear of a Jewish woman and Muslim man marrying, although it does happen. Jewish women pass on the lineage of being a part of the Children of Israel to her children, Jews do not accept a Jewish man to pass on the lineage since one never knows who the father of the child of a non-Jewish woman really is, but one will always know that the child is Jewish if the MOTHER is a Jew. This can become a really sticky situation where the child by Jewish Law is looked upon as being Jewish who is born from a Jewish mother and by Muslims in many cases, if the father is Muslim the child should be considered a Muslim. Islamically if one follows Torah they are not doing something wrong or forbidden, so, in essence one can be directly descended from the Children of Israel, keep Torah and still pray as a Muslim, since that is the way the original prayers of Judaism were done anyways(prostration and bowing, etc.), and even accept Muhammad (PBUH) as the last and final prophet, no where in Torah does it state that a Jew stops being a Jew for following a prophet. A rule of thumb, once a Jew always a Jew, being bound by Torah is forever, no matter what style of worship a Jew chooses, they are bound by Torah forever, that means that they are obligated to follow Torah for life. So if a Jew states "There is only one God but Allah and Muhammad is the last messenger", this DOES not take away the fact that they are from the Children of Israel and bound by Torah. Many people think that if one converts they are no longer obligated to follow the Torah, this is in fact untrue. I think that the further one digs on the religious issues of Judaism and Islam they will soon start to see that there is not much differences outside of keeping Kosher and the Mikvah rules and regulations concerning family purity. There is a horrible political rift in the world today, concerning Jews and Muslims. I am praying diligently that we can come together as one unit, it may not be in my lifetime, but I am more than positive that it is coming. In my heart, I feel that Muslims can show Jews the way back to living a Torah lifestyle via the application of modesty and prayers. When I first landed in Egypt, I told Hamada we talk about Torah at home, but you guys Live it. I love Egypt, I love the Muslims there, Egypt will always hold my heart, and if they never give Hamada the visa to come here, I know where I will be living in the next few years. To all who gave us support and prayers during this time, God Bless.

[Nasturtium 500]

Even if I converted to Islam, I would still be bound by Torah and obligated to follow Torah and any child who comes from me is the same as me, according to Jewish Law.

Actually, if you converted to Islam it would negate anything in Torah. Islam claims to recognize Torah and "Injeel" (but not Tanakh), but also says they are corrupted and therefore doesn't follow them. He is likely Sunni, right? So he would follow the Qu'ran and ahadeeth as rules, which are somewhat similar at times, but often just an antiparallel (for example, you have no pork in common but Muslims can and do sacrifice camels and eat them as well, which is forbidden by name in Torah, or their end times prophecies which are also a perfect antiparallel).

ETA: not that this should matter in your case at all-- I think it sounds like a flimsy excuse as well.

Well actually Islam does recognize Tanakh, Tanakh is all of the Hebrew scriptures, I think you are referring to the Talmud.

Actually, I meant the Tanakh. Thanks, but I know the difference. It says it recognizes it, but if you read the Qu'ran, it is very different. The Qu'ran supercedes the Torah. If the Qu'ran says it is permissable to sacrifice and eat a camel, then it is permissable and the Torah is WRONG. That is the Islamic position-- you would not be bound by Torah, you would be bound by the Qu'ran as the unfaltering, unchanged, unaltered revelation from Allah. Otherwise, you are saying the Torah and Tanakh as a whole supercedes the Qu'ran. The basic premise is that the Torah and Injeel were revealed and given to the Jews and CHrstians but also altered by them and thus the Qu'ran is the only scripture for a Muslim. If the Torah or Injeel made something haram which the Qu'ran makes halal, that would fall under making haram what Allah has made halal which is a big no-no. You would be violating Islam. You cannot celebrate the feasts of the Torah-- only the two Eids, you cannot follow the law of Moses of the Torah (including niddah), and you cannot hold truth to the prophets and the writings beyond what directly agrees with the Qu'ran. Anything which disagrees would be bidah. I have never heard of anyone getting premission to maintain a dualism in Islam based on their ethnic background.

[punkmada 0]

Even if I converted to Islam, I would still be bound by Torah and obligated to follow Torah and any child who comes from me is the same as me, according to Jewish Law.

Actually, if you converted to Islam it would negate anything in Torah. Islam claims to recognize Torah and "Injeel" (but not Tanakh), but also says they are corrupted and therefore doesn't follow them. He is likely Sunni, right? So he would follow the Qu'ran and ahadeeth as rules, which are somewhat similar at times, but often just an antiparallel (for example, you have no pork in common but Muslims can and do sacrifice camels and eat them as well, which is forbidden by name in Torah, or their end times prophecies which are also a perfect antiparallel).

ETA: not that this should matter in your case at all-- I think it sounds like a flimsy excuse as well.

Well actually Islam does recognize Tanakh, Tanakh is all of the Hebrew scriptures, I think you are referring to the Talmud.

Actually, I meant the Tanakh. Thanks, but I know the difference. It says it recognizes it, but if you read the Qu'ran, it is very different. The Qu'ran supercedes the Torah. If the Qu'ran says it is permissable to sacrifice and eat a camel, then it is permissable and the Torah is WRONG. That is the Islamic position-- you would not be bound by Torah, you would be bound by the Qu'ran as the unfaltering, unchanged, unaltered revelation from Allah. Otherwise, you are saying the Torah and Tanakh as a whole supercedes the Qu'ran. The basic premise is that the Torah and Injeel were revealed and given to the Jews and CHrstians but also altered by them and thus the Qu'ran is the only scripture for a Muslim. If the Torah or Injeel made something haram which the Qu'ran makes halal, that would fall under making haram what Allah has made halal which is a big no-no. You would be violating Islam. You cannot celebrate the feasts of the Torah-- only the two Eids, you cannot follow the law of Moses of the Torah (including niddah), and you cannot hold truth to the prophets and the writings beyond what directly agrees with the Qu'ran. Anything which disagrees would be bidah. I have never heard of anyone getting premission to maintain a dualism in Islam based on their ethnic background.

The Tanakh are all the Hebrew Scriptures in what the Christians call the Old Testament There is the oral Torah as well as written Torah. Islam recognizes that 100%, and I know for sure that Islam says that it is best that the Jews follow their books. Many do not know that the Children of Israel were given the Torah and must uphold it regardless if the other nations of the world were given Injeel or Quran, Jews must uphold Torah, even if we believe Jesus or in the final Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). Here is my proof from Holy Quran:

Surah 2:

40. O Children of Israel! Remember My Favour which I bestowed upon you, and fulfill (your obligations to) My Covenant (with you) so that I fulfill (My Obligations to) your covenant (with Me), and fear none but Me.

41. And believe in what I have sent down (this Qur'ân), confirming that which is with you, [the Taurât (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)], and be not the first to disbelieve therein, and buy not with My Verses [the Taurât (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)] a small price (i.e. getting a small gain by selling My Verses), and fear Me and Me Alone. (Tafsir At-Tabarî, Vol. I, Page 253).

42. And mix not truth with falsehood, nor conceal the truth [i.e. Muhammad Peace be upon him is Allâh's Messenger and his qualities are written in your Scriptures, the Taurât (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)] while you know (the truth) .

43. And perform As-Salât (Iqâmat-as-Salât), and give Zakât, and Irka' (i.e. bow down or submit yourselves with obedience to Allâh) along with Ar­Raki'ûn.

The Quran is the final message to the people, now if one from the nations is muslim it is perfectly halal for them to eat the meat of the camel or shellfish, on the other hand, one from the Children of Israel is not allowed to do so because the Torah instructs us not to do so. There is NOTHING in Torah that would be forbidden to a muslim accept drinking of alcohol which is not a problem in my family. Muslims can pray in a synagogue and Jews can pray in a mosque, because neither of us worship Idols or have statues of any sort in our places of worship, there is no doubt at all that we worship the same ALLAH. God says in Torah that all are welcome to pray in Temple. The original Jews were not called Jews, we were just referred to as the Children of Israel, there was NO religion called Judaism all that was made up by the people along the way. There is ONLY ONE religion, there is only ONE GOD and when you read over the Torah and Injeel one can see that all the prophets bowed down to the ONE GOD and prostrated before Him. I recognize that many of the feasts and celebrations of Judaism came about through different happenings along the way such as Chanukah and others, but none of them are haram since they are remembrance of believers who upheld Torah and did not bow down to Idols or Idol worshippers. When a muslim starts to look back into the roots of the Jewish religion they will start to see the reality of why muslims do some things that are not explained in their religion, for example, using prayer mats to pray on. Do you know why? When reading in the Talmud you will notice that it is imperative that a Jew prays only on a prayer mat when prostrating and never a stone, due to the fact that the Idol worshippers all prayed on stones. If a Jew was caught praying on a bare stone without a prayer mat that was an automatic death sentence. I am positive that this is why Muslims pray on a prayer mat. To be a Muslim is to be one who submits there will to do Allah's will, as you see, we have many Jews who are in fact Muslims. I hear the word Kafir, it means one who conceals, well, if you understand well, you will see that the reason Jews would be one who conceals is the fact that the prayers were no longer passed down in the original form and concealed, many of us abandoned Torah, stopped dressing modestly and started acting as the Idol worshippers in general to try and assimilate into their culture. Jews stopped prostrating and teaching the children how to pray properly. Islam shows us how to pray, as we did in the beginning. I love Muslims and no doubt without any wavering in my heart we (Jews and Muslims) will stand together as one. A Jew can say"There is Only One God but Allah, and that Muhammad is the last and final messenger", but this does not NEGATE their obligation to uphold the Laws of Torah, in any way at all, just as if you can not change your lineage of who your parents and ancestors are neither can the Children Of Israel.

[doodlebugg 10]

[Nasturtium 500]

The Tanakh are all the Hebrew Scriptures in what the Christians call the Old Testament There is the oral Torah as well as written Torah. Islam recognizes that 100%, and I know for sure that Islam says that it is best that the Jews follow their books. Many do not know that the Children of Israel were given the Torah and must uphold it regardless if the other nations of the world were given Injeel or Quran, Jews must uphold Torah, even if we believe Jesus or in the final Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). Here is my proof from Holy Quran:

Surah 2:

40. O Children of Israel! Remember My Favour which I bestowed upon you, and fulfill (your obligations to) My Covenant (with you) so that I fulfill (My Obligations to) your covenant (with Me), and fear none but Me.

41. And believe in what I have sent down (this Qur'ân), confirming that which is with you, [the Taurât (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)], and be not the first to disbelieve therein, and buy not with My Verses [the Taurât (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)] a small price (i.e. getting a small gain by selling My Verses), and fear Me and Me Alone. (Tafsir At-Tabarî, Vol. I, Page 253).

42. And mix not truth with falsehood, nor conceal the truth [i.e. Muhammad Peace be upon him is Allâh's Messenger and his qualities are written in your Scriptures, the Taurât (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)] while you know (the truth) .

43. And perform As-Salât (Iqâmat-as-Salât), and give Zakât, and Irka' (i.e. bow down or submit yourselves with obedience to Allâh) along with Ar­Raki'ûn.

The Quran is the final message to the people, now if one from the nations is muslim it is perfectly halal for them to eat the meat of the camel or shellfish, on the other hand, one from the Children of Israel is not allowed to do so because the Torah instructs us not to do so. There is NOTHING in Torah that would be forbidden to a muslim accept drinking of alcohol which is not a problem in my family. Muslims can pray in a synagogue and Jews can pray in a mosque, because neither of us worship Idols or have statues of any sort in our places of worship, there is no doubt at all that we worship the same ALLAH. God says in Torah that all are welcome to pray in Temple. The original Jews were not called Jews, we were just referred to as the Children of Israel, there was NO religion called Judaism all that was made up by the people along the way. There is ONLY ONE religion, there is only ONE GOD and when you read over the Torah and Injeel one can see that all the prophets bowed down to the ONE GOD and prostrated before Him. I recognize that many of the feasts and celebrations of Judaism came about through different happenings along the way such as Chanukah and others, but none of them are haram since they are remembrance of believers who upheld Torah and did not bow down to Idols or Idol worshippers. When a muslim starts to look back into the roots of the Jewish religion they will start to see the reality of why muslims do some things that are not explained in their religion, for example, using prayer mats to pray on. Do you know why? When reading in the Talmud you will notice that it is imperative that a Jew prays only on a prayer mat when prostrating and never a stone, due to the fact that the Idol worshippers all prayed on stones. If a Jew was caught praying on a bare stone without a prayer mat that was an automatic death sentence. I am positive that this is why Muslims pray on a prayer mat. To be a Muslim is to be one who submits there will to do Allah's will, as you see, we have many Jews who are in fact Muslims. I hear the word Kafir, it means one who conceals, well, if you understand well, you will see that the reason Jews would be one who conceals is the fact that the prayers were no longer passed down in the original form and concealed, many of us abandoned Torah, stopped dressing modestly and started acting as the Idol worshippers in general to try and assimilate into their culture. Jews stopped prostrating and teaching the children how to pray properly. Islam shows us how to pray, as we did in the beginning. I love Muslims and no doubt without any wavering in my heart we (Jews and Muslims) will stand together as one. A Jew can say"There is Only One God but Allah, and that Muhammad is the last and final messenger", but this does not NEGATE their obligation to uphold the Laws of Torah, in any way at all, just as if you can not change your lineage of who your parents and ancestors are neither can the Children Of Israel.

I'd like to see how that holds up in Islamic jurisprudence. There is nothing in Torah which conflicts with Islam? One simple example: in Torah, you can only divorce in case of adultry. If you are divorced, you can only remarry the woman you just divorced if she has not since remarried. It is forbidden by word to remarry her after she has remarried someone else, even if she becomes single by widowing or divorce. In Qu'ran, one can only remarry the same woman after she has already married another and divorced, which is, again, strictly forbidden by the Torah. Which one will you uphold? If the Qu'ran and Islam upholds the entirety of the Tanakh, then what about Yeshayahu? What about Hadassah? Rut? How would you reconcile the end times prophecies of Dani'el, Yechezk'el, Yirmeyahu (and in the B'rit Hadashah which you MUST accept if you follow the progression of Islam) Yochannan's Revelation-- where the prophecies for Israel are given and in direct anti-parallel with the prophecies of Islam? Do you accept to hunt down the last Jews until the stones and trees cry out that there is a Jew behind them, come and kill them? Or that there is a man with a prophet who will hunt and kill the Jews who will be led by another spirit? Which one will you choose in that case? If Islam recognizes the Tanakh, then it must recognize that dancing and singing are not haram or makruh, but in fact important and integral parts of worship as in Tehillim. It must recognize that all prophets and all figures sinned and were fallible, and sinned until they died even though they were blessed by G-d. So will you choose the Tanakh's version of David or the Qu'ran's? Who did Avram attempt to sacrifice? Yitz'chak or Ishmael? What is the most holy place of G-d? Tziyon or Mecca?

Sorry, Islam says that the Qu'ran is the unaltered word of Allah and that none is above it. If you want to use the verses you quoted above to say the Torah supercedes the Qu'ran (which it doesn't say, it actually tells you not to mix), then you also would gleen from that that the Injeel supercedes the Qu'ran which, being the largly a simple Torah commentary in addition to the Bible, would mean Yeshua is the Messiah and G-d. You can't have it all ways. That's great that you've managed a dualist reconciliation of rationalisation, but I have never seen any scholar back this dualism in Islam. I am surprised that Muslims on this forum wouldn't speak up about the 'purity' and 'supercedence' of their Qu'ran and prophet, unless they are in agreement with you.

The verses you reported confirm what I am saying. It says to not deny the truth given that there is one G-d in the Injeel and the Taurat, and to not intertwine your former beliefs with the true belief of Islam. I suggest you re-examine them. Islam makes it clear about the infallibility and necessity of following the Qu'ran and Sunnah (which both differ and contradict in many places the Tanakh and B'rit Hadashah, which would force one to make a choice to either follow Islam or follow another religion).

“O you who believe! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger...†[4:59]

“He who obeys the Messenger has indeed obeyed Allah...†[4:80]

“...And let those who oppose the Messenger’s commandment beware, lest some fitnah (trial, affliction, etc.) befall them or a painful torment be inflicted on them.†[24:63]

â€But no, by your Lord, they can have no Faith, until they make you [Muhammad] judge in all disputes between them, and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions, and accept (them) with full submission.†[4:65]

“O you who believe! Answer Allah (by obeying Him) and (His) Messenger when he calls you to that which will give you life...†[8:24]

“Verily, those who deny Allâh and His Messengers and (those who) wish to separate Allah from His Messengers (by believing in Allâh and disbelieving in His Messengers), saying: "We believe in some but reject others": and (those who) wish to adopt a way in between. They are in truth (equally) Unbelievers; and We have prepared for Unbelievers a humiliating Punishment. To those who believe in Allah and His Messengers and make no distinction between any of the Messengers, We shall soon give their (due) rewards: for Allah is Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful.†[4:150-153] (this would be chosing Torah over Qu'ran or in addition to it-- mixing).

'There is among them a section who distort the Book with their tongues: (as they read) you would think it is a part of the Book, but it is no part of the Book; and they say, 'That is from Allah,' but it is not from Allah: It is they who tell a lie against Allah...' (3:78)

'But because of their breach of their Covenant, We cursed them, and made their hearts grow hard: They change the words from their (right) places and forget a good part of the Message that was sent... (5:13)

"If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (Submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter he will be in the ranks of those who have lost (their selves in the hell fire)."(Qur'an 3:85)

It's your business if you want to maintain 2 religions at the same time, but neither one of these religions actually accept dualism... When you say Shahada you confirm that Mohammed is the messenger of Allah... which would mean you MUST follow what Mohammed says and not things which contradict him.

Edited August 12, 2008 by julianna

[punkmada 0]

The Tanakh are all the Hebrew Scriptures in what the Christians call the Old Testament There is the oral Torah as well as written Torah. Islam recognizes that 100%, and I know for sure that Islam says that it is best that the Jews follow their books. Many do not know that the Children of Israel were given the Torah and must uphold it regardless if the other nations of the world were given Injeel or Quran, Jews must uphold Torah, even if we believe Jesus or in the final Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). Here is my proof from Holy Quran:

Surah 2:

40. O Children of Israel! Remember My Favour which I bestowed upon you, and fulfill (your obligations to) My Covenant (with you) so that I fulfill (My Obligations to) your covenant (with Me), and fear none but Me.

41. And believe in what I have sent down (this Qur'ân), confirming that which is with you, [the Taurât (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)], and be not the first to disbelieve therein, and buy not with My Verses [the Taurât (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)] a small price (i.e. getting a small gain by selling My Verses), and fear Me and Me Alone. (Tafsir At-Tabarî, Vol. I, Page 253).

42. And mix not truth with falsehood, nor conceal the truth [i.e. Muhammad Peace be upon him is Allâh's Messenger and his qualities are written in your Scriptures, the Taurât (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)] while you know (the truth) .

43. And perform As-Salât (Iqâmat-as-Salât), and give Zakât, and Irka' (i.e. bow down or submit yourselves with obedience to Allâh) along with Ar­Raki'ûn.

The Quran is the final message to the people, now if one from the nations is muslim it is perfectly halal for them to eat the meat of the camel or shellfish, on the other hand, one from the Children of Israel is not allowed to do so because the Torah instructs us not to do so. There is NOTHING in Torah that would be forbidden to a muslim accept drinking of alcohol which is not a problem in my family. Muslims can pray in a synagogue and Jews can pray in a mosque, because neither of us worship Idols or have statues of any sort in our places of worship, there is no doubt at all that we worship the same ALLAH. God says in Torah that all are welcome to pray in Temple. The original Jews were not called Jews, we were just referred to as the Children of Israel, there was NO religion called Judaism all that was made up by the people along the way. There is ONLY ONE religion, there is only ONE GOD and when you read over the Torah and Injeel one can see that all the prophets bowed down to the ONE GOD and prostrated before Him. I recognize that many of the feasts and celebrations of Judaism came about through different happenings along the way such as Chanukah and others, but none of them are haram since they are remembrance of believers who upheld Torah and did not bow down to Idols or Idol worshippers. When a muslim starts to look back into the roots of the Jewish religion they will start to see the reality of why muslims do some things that are not explained in their religion, for example, using prayer mats to pray on. Do you know why? When reading in the Talmud you will notice that it is imperative that a Jew prays only on a prayer mat when prostrating and never a stone, due to the fact that the Idol worshippers all prayed on stones. If a Jew was caught praying on a bare stone without a prayer mat that was an automatic death sentence. I am positive that this is why Muslims pray on a prayer mat. To be a Muslim is to be one who submits there will to do Allah's will, as you see, we have many Jews who are in fact Muslims. I hear the word Kafir, it means one who conceals, well, if you understand well, you will see that the reason Jews would be one who conceals is the fact that the prayers were no longer passed down in the original form and concealed, many of us abandoned Torah, stopped dressing modestly and started acting as the Idol worshippers in general to try and assimilate into their culture. Jews stopped prostrating and teaching the children how to pray properly. Islam shows us how to pray, as we did in the beginning. I love Muslims and no doubt without any wavering in my heart we (Jews and Muslims) will stand together as one. A Jew can say"There is Only One God but Allah, and that Muhammad is the last and final messenger", but this does not NEGATE their obligation to uphold the Laws of Torah, in any way at all, just as if you can not change your lineage of who your parents and ancestors are neither can the Children Of Israel.

I'd like to see how that holds up in Islamic jurisprudence. There is nothing in Torah which conflicts with Islam? One simple example: in Torah, you can only divorce in case of adultry. If you are divorced, you can only remarry the woman you just divorced if she has not since remarried. It is forbidden by word to remarry her after she has remarried someone else, even if she becomes single by widowing or divorce. In Qu'ran, one can only remarry the same woman after she has already married another and divorced, which is, again, strictly forbidden by the Torah. Which one will you uphold? If the Qu'ran and Islam upholds the entirety of the Tanakh, then what about Yeshayahu? What about Hadassah? Rut? How would you reconcile the end times prophecies of Dani'el, Yechezk'el, Yirmeyahu (and in the B'rit Hadashah which you MUST accept if you follow the progression of Islam) Yochannan's Revelation-- where the prophecies for Israel are given and in direct anti-parallel with the prophecies of Islam? Do you accept to hunt down the last Jews until the stones and trees cry out that there is a Jew behind them, come and kill them? Or that there is a man with a prophet who will hunt and kill the Jews who will be led by another spirit? Which one will you choose in that case? If Islam recognizes the Tanakh, then it must recognize that dancing and singing are not haram or makruh, but in fact important and integral parts of worship as in Tehillim. It must recognize that all prophets and all figures sinned and were fallible, and sinned until they died even though they were blessed by G-d. So will you choose the Tanakh's version of David or the Qu'ran's? Who did Avram attempt to sacrifice? Yitz'chak or Ishmael? What is the most holy place of G-d? Tziyon or Mecca?

Sorry, Islam says that the Qu'ran is the unaltered word of Allah and that none is above it. If you want to use the verses you quoted above to say the Torah supercedes the Qu'ran (which it doesn't say, it actually tells you not to mix), then you also would gleen from that that the Injeel supercedes the Qu'ran which, being the largly a simple Torah commentary in addition to the Bible, would mean Yeshua is the Messiah and G-d. You can't have it all ways. That's great that you've managed a dualist reconciliation of rationalisation, but I have never seen any scholar back this dualism in Islam. I am surprised that Muslims on this forum wouldn't speak up about the 'purity' and 'supercedence' of their Qu'ran and prophet, unless they are in agreement with you.

The verses you reported confirm what I am saying. It says to not deny the truth given that there is one G-d in the Injeel and the Taurat, and to not intertwine your former beliefs with the true belief of Islam. I suggest you re-examine them. Islam makes it clear about the infallibility and necessity of following the Qu'ran and Sunnah (which both differ and contradict in many places the Tanakh and B'rit Hadashah, which would force one to make a choice to either follow Islam or follow another religion).

“O you who believe! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger...†[4:59]

“He who obeys the Messenger has indeed obeyed Allah...†[4:80]

“...And let those who oppose the Messenger’s commandment beware, lest some fitnah (trial, affliction, etc.) befall them or a painful torment be inflicted on them.†[24:63]

â€But no, by your Lord, they can have no Faith, until they make you [Muhammad] judge in all disputes between them, and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions, and accept (them) with full submission.†[4:65]

“O you who believe! Answer Allah (by obeying Him) and (His) Messenger when he calls you to that which will give you life...†[8:24]

“Verily, those who deny Allâh and His Messengers and (those who) wish to separate Allah from His Messengers (by believing in Allâh and disbelieving in His Messengers), saying: "We believe in some but reject others": and (those who) wish to adopt a way in between. They are in truth (equally) Unbelievers; and We have prepared for Unbelievers a humiliating Punishment. To those who believe in Allah and His Messengers and make no distinction between any of the Messengers, We shall soon give their (due) rewards: for Allah is Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful.†[4:150-153] (this would be chosing Torah over Qu'ran or in addition to it-- mixing).

'There is among them a section who distort the Book with their tongues: (as they read) you would think it is a part of the Book, but it is no part of the Book; and they say, 'That is from Allah,' but it is not from Allah: It is they who tell a lie against Allah...' (3:78)

'But because of their breach of their Covenant, We cursed them, and made their hearts grow hard: They change the words from their (right) places and forget a good part of the Message that was sent... (5:13)

"If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (Submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter he will be in the ranks of those who have lost (their selves in the hell fire)."(Qur'an 3:85)

It's your business if you want to maintain 2 religions at the same time, but neither one of these religions actually accept dualism... When you say Shahada you confirm that Mohammed is the messenger of Allah... which would mean you MUST follow what Mohammed says and not things which contradict him.

The Surah that I quoted above simply states that if you are from the Children Of Israel do not forget the covenant, which is in fact upholding Torah. No matter what a Jew ALWAYS is obligated to Torah, even if they choose to follow Yeshua or Muhammad (PBUH). This is a matter of fact, when you are from the lineage of the Children of Israel regardless if Christian, Muslim, or Jewish Torah is not to be ignored at all. Islam 100% says that in the quote above.

[punkmada 0]

The Tanakh are all the Hebrew Scriptures in what the Christians call the Old Testament There is the oral Torah as well as written Torah. Islam recognizes that 100%, and I know for sure that Islam says that it is best that the Jews follow their books. Many do not know that the Children of Israel were given the Torah and must uphold it regardless if the other nations of the world were given Injeel or Quran, Jews must uphold Torah, even if we believe Jesus or in the final Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). Here is my proof from Holy Quran:

Surah 2:

40. O Children of Israel! Remember My Favour which I bestowed upon you, and fulfill (your obligations to) My Covenant (with you) so that I fulfill (My Obligations to) your covenant (with Me), and fear none but Me.

41. And believe in what I have sent down (this Qur'ân), confirming that which is with you, [the Taurât (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)], and be not the first to disbelieve therein, and buy not with My Verses [the Taurât (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)] a small price (i.e. getting a small gain by selling My Verses), and fear Me and Me Alone. (Tafsir At-Tabarî, Vol. I, Page 253).

42. And mix not truth with falsehood, nor conceal the truth [i.e. Muhammad Peace be upon him is Allâh's Messenger and his qualities are written in your Scriptures, the Taurât (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)] while you know (the truth) .

43. And perform As-Salât (Iqâmat-as-Salât), and give Zakât, and Irka' (i.e. bow down or submit yourselves with obedience to Allâh) along with Ar­Raki'ûn.

The Quran is the final message to the people, now if one from the nations is muslim it is perfectly halal for them to eat the meat of the camel or shellfish, on the other hand, one from the Children of Israel is not allowed to do so because the Torah instructs us not to do so. There is NOTHING in Torah that would be forbidden to a muslim accept drinking of alcohol which is not a problem in my family. Muslims can pray in a synagogue and Jews can pray in a mosque, because neither of us worship Idols or have statues of any sort in our places of worship, there is no doubt at all that we worship the same ALLAH. God says in Torah that all are welcome to pray in Temple. The original Jews were not called Jews, we were just referred to as the Children of Israel, there was NO religion called Judaism all that was made up by the people along the way. There is ONLY ONE religion, there is only ONE GOD and when you read over the Torah and Injeel one can see that all the prophets bowed down to the ONE GOD and prostrated before Him. I recognize that many of the feasts and celebrations of Judaism came about through different happenings along the way such as Chanukah and others, but none of them are haram since they are remembrance of believers who upheld Torah and did not bow down to Idols or Idol worshippers. When a muslim starts to look back into the roots of the Jewish religion they will start to see the reality of why muslims do some things that are not explained in their religion, for example, using prayer mats to pray on. Do you know why? When reading in the Talmud you will notice that it is imperative that a Jew prays only on a prayer mat when prostrating and never a stone, due to the fact that the Idol worshippers all prayed on stones. If a Jew was caught praying on a bare stone without a prayer mat that was an automatic death sentence. I am positive that this is why Muslims pray on a prayer mat. To be a Muslim is to be one who submits there will to do Allah's will, as you see, we have many Jews who are in fact Muslims. I hear the word Kafir, it means one who conceals, well, if you understand well, you will see that the reason Jews would be one who conceals is the fact that the prayers were no longer passed down in the original form and concealed, many of us abandoned Torah, stopped dressing modestly and started acting as the Idol worshippers in general to try and assimilate into their culture. Jews stopped prostrating and teaching the children how to pray properly. Islam shows us how to pray, as we did in the beginning. I love Muslims and no doubt without any wavering in my heart we (Jews and Muslims) will stand together as one. A Jew can say"There is Only One God but Allah, and that Muhammad is the last and final messenger", but this does not NEGATE their obligation to uphold the Laws of Torah, in any way at all, just as if you can not change your lineage of who your parents and ancestors are neither can the Children Of Israel.

I'd like to see how that holds up in Islamic jurisprudence. There is nothing in Torah which conflicts with Islam? One simple example: in Torah, you can only divorce in case of adultry. If you are divorced, you can only remarry the woman you just divorced if she has not since remarried. It is forbidden by word to remarry her after she has remarried someone else, even if she becomes single by widowing or divorce. In Qu'ran, one can only remarry the same woman after she has already married another and divorced, which is, again, strictly forbidden by the Torah. Which one will you uphold? If the Qu'ran and Islam upholds the entirety of the Tanakh, then what about Yeshayahu? What about Hadassah? Rut? How would you reconcile the end times prophecies of Dani'el, Yechezk'el, Yirmeyahu (and in the B'rit Hadashah which you MUST accept if you follow the progression of Islam) Yochannan's Revelation-- where the prophecies for Israel are given and in direct anti-parallel with the prophecies of Islam? Do you accept to hunt down the last Jews until the stones and trees cry out that there is a Jew behind them, come and kill them? Or that there is a man with a prophet who will hunt and kill the Jews who will be led by another spirit? Which one will you choose in that case? If Islam recognizes the Tanakh, then it must recognize that dancing and singing are not haram or makruh, but in fact important and integral parts of worship as in Tehillim. It must recognize that all prophets and all figures sinned and were fallible, and sinned until they died even though they were blessed by G-d. So will you choose the Tanakh's version of David or the Qu'ran's? Who did Avram attempt to sacrifice? Yitz'chak or Ishmael? What is the most holy place of G-d? Tziyon or Mecca?

Sorry, Islam says that the Qu'ran is the unaltered word of Allah and that none is above it. If you want to use the verses you quoted above to say the Torah supercedes the Qu'ran (which it doesn't say, it actually tells you not to mix), then you also would gleen from that that the Injeel supercedes the Qu'ran which, being the largly a simple Torah commentary in addition to the Bible, would mean Yeshua is the Messiah and G-d. You can't have it all ways. That's great that you've managed a dualist reconciliation of rationalisation, but I have never seen any scholar back this dualism in Islam. I am surprised that Muslims on this forum wouldn't speak up about the 'purity' and 'supercedence' of their Qu'ran and prophet, unless they are in agreement with you.

The verses you reported confirm what I am saying. It says to not deny the truth given that there is one G-d in the Injeel and the Taurat, and to not intertwine your former beliefs with the true belief of Islam. I suggest you re-examine them. Islam makes it clear about the infallibility and necessity of following the Qu'ran and Sunnah (which both differ and contradict in many places the Tanakh and B'rit Hadashah, which would force one to make a choice to either follow Islam or follow another religion).

“O you who believe! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger...†[4:59]

“He who obeys the Messenger has indeed obeyed Allah...†[4:80]

“...And let those who oppose the Messenger’s commandment beware, lest some fitnah (trial, affliction, etc.) befall them or a painful torment be inflicted on them.†[24:63]

â€But no, by your Lord, they can have no Faith, until they make you [Muhammad] judge in all disputes between them, and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions, and accept (them) with full submission.†[4:65]

“O you who believe! Answer Allah (by obeying Him) and (His) Messenger when he calls you to that which will give you life...†[8:24]

“Verily, those who deny Allâh and His Messengers and (those who) wish to separate Allah from His Messengers (by believing in Allâh and disbelieving in His Messengers), saying: "We believe in some but reject others": and (those who) wish to adopt a way in between. They are in truth (equally) Unbelievers; and We have prepared for Unbelievers a humiliating Punishment. To those who believe in Allah and His Messengers and make no distinction between any of the Messengers, We shall soon give their (due) rewards: for Allah is Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful.†[4:150-153] (this would be chosing Torah over Qu'ran or in addition to it-- mixing).

'There is among them a section who distort the Book with their tongues: (as they read) you would think it is a part of the Book, but it is no part of the Book; and they say, 'That is from Allah,' but it is not from Allah: It is they who tell a lie against Allah...' (3:78)

'But because of their breach of their Covenant, We cursed them, and made their hearts grow hard: They change the words from their (right) places and forget a good part of the Message that was sent... (5:13)

"If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (Submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter he will be in the ranks of those who have lost (their selves in the hell fire)."(Qur'an 3:85)

It's your business if you want to maintain 2 religions at the same time, but neither one of these religions actually accept dualism... When you say Shahada you confirm that Mohammed is the messenger of Allah... which would mean you MUST follow what Mohammed says and not things which contradict him.

€œVerily, those who deny Allâh and His Messengers and (those who) wish to separate Allah from His Messengers (by believing in Allâh and disbelieving in His Messengers), saying: "We believe in some but reject others": and (those who) wish to adopt a way in between. They are in truth (equally) Unbelievers; and We have prepared for Unbelievers a humiliating Punishment. To those who believe in Allah and His Messengers and make no distinction between any of the Messengers, We shall soon give their (due) rewards: for Allah is Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful.†[4:150-153] (this would be chosing Torah over Qu'ran or in addition to it-- mixing).

No, that is NOT choosing Torah over Quran, if you read what I posted earlier you would know that the Torah is an obligation on the Children Of Israel, NOT A CHOICE!!! THERE IS NO MIXING WHEN YOU ARE OBLIGATED TO TORAH. If you are descended from the Children of Israel, then you are obligated to Torah, bottom line, but that does NOT mean that you can not accept any prophets after the Hebrew Scriptures. There are no arguments and NOTHING in Quran can go against this because Allah has already Decreed His COVENANT WITH US AND US WITH HIM. This argument is complete and justified in Surah 2: verse 40-41.

What Im trying to explain is this: Torah is obligated on every person who is from the lineage of the Children Of Israel, if you are Christian and you are descended from a pagan background of course you would not be obligated to Torah. If you are Jewish yes you are obligated or Muslim and your mother is Jewish you are obligated, even if your mother converted to Islam the child is still obligated to Torah, because the child is descended from the Children of Israel and WE have a convenant with Allah, special, outside of ALL THE OTHER NATIONS. The Quran says this and so does the Torah. If one who believes in Yeshua and they are from the Children of Israel they MUST uphold Torah, no matter what anyone or any religion says Torah is an obligation upon the Children of Israel, no matter how transgressed that the person is in their worship of Allah.

Divorce is allowed in Judaism, one can divorce, her exhusband writes her a GET and she is FREE To marry. On the other hand divorce is allowed in Islam as well. In terms of Isaac and Ishmael being sacrificied what does that have to do with worship and the belief system in Islam or Judaism? If you perform righteous deeds, OBEY Allah (this is the real key), give zakat, make salat and the other pillars of Islam how is upholding Torah changing anything? Islam says that it is the middle ground not too strict and not too lenient and absolutely not compulsory. Being descended from the Children of Israel is different than any other nation of people, we have a special obligation, whether we practice Judaism in its present form, Christianity or Islam, etc. There is ONLY ONE GOD.

[Nasturtium 500]

OK, if you think so!

[doodlebugg 10]

Do you accept to hunt down the last Jews until the stones and trees cry out that there is a Jew behind them, come and kill them? Or that there is a man with a prophet who will hunt and kill the Jews who will be led by another spirit? Which one will you choose in that case?

Could you quote where you got this from?

[Nasturtium 500]

Do you accept to hunt down the last Jews until the stones and trees cry out that there is a Jew behind them, come and kill them? Or that there is a man with a prophet who will hunt and kill the Jews who will be led by another spirit? Which one will you choose in that case?

Could you quote where you got this from?

Hey Bridget, I've been up over 24 hours so if I leave something out or you ask something else and i drop off for a while (like 16 hours) it's because I have gone to bed and usually use the computer at work. I am guessing you want the Islamic side and not the Biblical side? I'll toss in some of both just in case. I won't bother to quote Bible scripture as I figured you were asking about the Islamic side. Hope I am making sense lol.

(Muhammad said:) The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; (Sahih Muslim Book 041, Number 6985).

From Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 56, Number 791:

Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar: "I heard Allah's Apostle saying, 'The Jews will fight with you, and you will be given victory over them so that a stone will say, "O Muslim! There is a Jew behind me; kill him!"'

From Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number 176:

Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar: Allah's Apostle said, "You (i.e. Muslims) will fight with the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, 'O 'Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.' "

From Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number 177:

Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

Zechariah 12:2; Zech 13:8-9, Ezek. 38; Dan 9:26;Dan 11:41;Dan 7:2; Dan 8:24; Rev 13:7,10;Rev 13:14; Rev 20:14... to get into more would involve a one-to-one comparison of end times prophecies of Islam compared to Judaism/Christianity. I figured you're not asking about the comparitive religion part, but if you are I can pass on some sites to you, books, etc.

[~PalmTreeGurl~ 154]

Those are right Julianna. Adam has told me these things before when we talk about the end times. Thank you for sharing where in the hadeeths they were at bcz I wanted to mention it too but didnt know the exact places bcz Adam was asleep.

[hitchoo 0]

Salam

Besm Ellah

Punkmada they gave you many examples of which quraan conflicts with Turah , which also is true. but i read your post and i can feel you look for and seek what we agree on which i appreciate and exactly feel your soul want all of us to be on agreement and we are all one , whatever is our religions.

if you really seek this , then you are seeking the unity the unique unity that cant be divided under any concept or any perceptions , which exactly represented in the unity of Allah . all world worship one god the first and the last .

so Dear if you are looking for something to put all of us in one box , Quraan already gave it you

Surah Al-Imiran . "O People of the Book! come to common terms as between us and you: That we worship none but Allah; that we associate no partners with him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than Allah." If then they turn back, say ye: "Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to Allah's Will).

Read this one , look into yourself , if you are going to ask Allah something OR TO WORSHIP HIM, are you going to go through someone or need any help or assistant from anyone before you go right away to ask him ?

if not then Thats LA ELLAH ELLA ALLAH. and that you dont associate no one in this , WHICH WE ALL KNOW ALLAH DOES FORGIVE ANYTHING BUT THIS SIN , a3ouzo bellah.

on other hand IF YOU DO go through anyone and associate one with allah. Then i Till you "Bear witness that we are Muslims"

Salam

[punkmada 0]

Salam

Besm Ellah

Punkmada they gave you many examples of which quraan conflicts with Turah , which also is true. but i read your post and i can feel you look for and seek what we agree on which i appreciate and exactly feel your soul want all of us to be on agreement and we are all one , whatever is our religions.

if you really seek this , then you are seeking the unity the unique unity that cant be divided under any concept or any perceptions , which exactly represented in the unity of Allah . all world worship one god the first and the last .

so Dear if you are looking for something to put all of us in one box , Quraan already gave it you

Surah Al-Imiran . "O People of the Book! come to common terms as between us and you: That we worship none but Allah; that we associate no partners with him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than Allah." If then they turn back, say ye: "Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to Allah's Will).

Read this one , look into yourself , if you are going to ask Allah something OR TO WORSHIP HIM, are you going to go through someone or need any help or assistant from anyone before you go right away to ask him ?

if not then Thats LA ELLAH ELLA ALLAH. and that you dont associate no one in this , WHICH WE ALL KNOW ALLAH DOES FORGIVE ANYTHING BUT THIS SIN , a3ouzo bellah.

on other hand IF YOU DO go through anyone and associate one with allah. Then i Till you "Bear witness that we are Muslims"

Salam

Thanks for your comment, you are so right, no partners with Allah, Worship Him Alone !!!!

[punkmada 0]

Those are right Julianna. Adam has told me these things before when we talk about the end times. Thank you for sharing where in the hadeeths they were at bcz I wanted to mention it too but didnt know the exact places bcz Adam was asleep.

Hi Tamara:

I just want to show you some things as well, just as others here have shared with you, let's take a look at the following from the Holy Quran: Surah 5:

44. Verily, We did send down the Taurât (Torah) [to Mûsa (Moses)], therein was guidance and light, by which the Prophets, who submitted themselves to Allâh's Will, judged the Jews. And the rabbis and the priests [too judged the Jews by the Taurât (Torah) after those Prophets] for to them was entrusted the protection of Allâh's Book, and they were witnesses thereto. Therefore fear not men but fear Me (O Jews) and sell not My Verses for a miserable price. And whosoever does not judge by what Allâh has revealed, such are the Kâfirûn (i.e. disbelievers - of a lesser degree as they do not act on Allâh's Laws ).

45. And We ordained therein for them: "Life for life , eye for eye, nose for nose, ear for ear, tooth for tooth, and wounds equal for equal." But if anyone remits the retaliation by way of charity, it shall be for him an expiation. And whosoever does not judge by that which Allâh has revealed, such are the Zâlimûn (polytheists and wrong­doers - of a lesser degree).

46. And in their footsteps, We sent 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary) , confirming the Taurât (Torah) that had come before him, and We gave him the Injeel (Gospel), in which was guidance and light and confirmation of the Taurât (Torah) that had come before it, a guidance and an admonition for Al-Muttaqûn (the pious - see V.2:2).

47. Let the people of the Injeel (Gospel) judge by what Allâh has revealed therein. And whosoever does not judge by what Allâh has revealed (then) such (people) are the Fâsiqûn (the rebellious i.e. disobedient (of a lesser degree) to Allâh.

48. And We have sent down to you (O Muhammad ) the Book (this Qur'ân) in truth, confirming the Scripture that came before it and Mohayminan (trustworthy in highness and a witness) over it (old Scriptures) . So judge between them by what Allâh has revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging away from the truth that has come to you. To each among you, We have prescribed a law and a clear way. If Allâh willed, He would have made you one nation, but that (He) may test you in what He has given you; so strive as in a race in good deeds. The return of you (all) is to Allâh; then He will inform you about that in which you used to differ.

49. . And so judge (you O Muhammad ) between them by what Allâh has revealed and follow not their vain desires, but beware of them lest they turn you (O Muhammad ) far away from some of that which Allâh has sent down to you. And if they turn away, then know that Allâh's Will is to punish them for some sins of theirs. And truly, most of men are Fâsiqûn (rebellious and disobedient

With these understood, Allah then talks about the BAD JEWS and CHRISTIANS, but Allah also explains that NOT ALL are bad, NOT ALL JEWS OR CHRISTIANS will receive the punishment that the Hadeeths you are referring to state, because a small party will be righteous, I believe this is something that MUST be stressed as well as the WRONG, but many, so many forget the RIGHT.

Surah 5:

66. And if only they had acted according to the Taurât (Torah), the Injeel (Gospel), and what has (now) been sent down to them from their Lord (the Qur'ân), they would surely have gotten provision from above them and from underneath their feet. There are from among them people who are on the right course (i.e. they act on the revelation and believe in Prophet Muhammad like 'Abdullâh bin Salâm ), but many of them do evil deeds

Allah reminds The Children of Israel to not forget our obligation to Torah, even if we follow Muhammad:

Surah 2:

40. O Children of Israel! Remember My Favour which I bestowed upon you, and fulfill (your obligations to) My Covenant (with you) so that I fulfill (My Obligations to) your covenant (with Me), and fear none but Me.

41. And believe in what I have sent down (this Qur'ân), confirming that which is with you, [the Taurât (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)], and be not the first to disbelieve therein, and buy not with My Verses [the Taurât (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)] a small price (i.e. getting a small gain by selling My Verses), and fear Me and Me Alone. (Tafsir At-Tabarî, Vol. I, Page 253).

42. And mix not truth with falsehood, nor conceal the truth [i.e. Muhammad Peace be upon him is Allâh's Messenger and his qualities are written in your Scriptures, the Taurât (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)] while you know (the truth) .

43. And perform As-Salât (Iqâmat-as-Salât), and give Zakât, and Irka' (i.e. bow down or submit yourselves with obedience to Allâh) along with Ar­Raki'ûn.

Allah knows what is in our hearts, I am POSITIVE That ALLAH can not throw the righteous in with the non-believers. Allah addresses the concerns of the Children of Israel who will in fact take up and follow Muhammad, even if a few. I believe it is down right nasty and wrong to associate the wrong doers with the faithful to discourage what Allah has already decreed. Allah reminds the Children of Israel to keep the Covenant which is our OBLIGATION to Allah, no matter what prophet that we follow. NO HADEETH can STAND UP TO THE HOLY QURAN and what ALLAH HAS DECREED FOR HIS RIGHTEOUS SERVANTS.

[~~~water~~~ 0]

I feel if you and your man want to be together it is not the place of the government to condemn you because of you beliefs!!!

I wish you speed in the resolution of this nightmare