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Filed: Country: Vietnam (no flag)
Timeline
Posted (edited)

The Natural

Claim: John McCain does not qualify as a natural-born citizen of the U.S. because he was born in Panama.

Status: Undetermined.

Example: [Collected via e-mail, July 2008]

I am hearing talk that Senator John McCain is not eligible to be President of the United States because he is not a natural-born citizen.

Origins: Among the few qualifications specified in Article II, Section I of the U.S. Constitution regarding eligibility for the office of President of the United States is that the office-holder must be a "natural born citizen of the United States." This qualification has not previously been an issue in U.S. politics since no one so far elected to the office of president (or who otherwise served as president) was born outside of the United States. But it has been a (minor) issue so far in 2008, as the presumptive Republican presidential nominee, Senator John McCain of Arizona, was born not in the U.S. proper but in the Panama Canal Zone. (McCain's parents were themselves U.S. citizens, and at the time of his birth they lived on a military installation in the Panama Canal Zone, where his father was stationed as a U.S. Navy

officer.) If Senator McCain were deemed not to be a natural-born citizen of the United States, his name could be kept off of ballots in the 2008 presidential election, and he could be ineligible to serve as president even if won the election.

As much we'd like to dismiss this one as just another frivolous election season rumor, it's impossible to make any definitive statement about Senator McCain's presidential eligibility because the issue is a matter of law rather than a matter of fact, and the law is ambiguous. There is no disputing that, under the U.S. statutes and laws applicable to the offspring of Americans living abroad and to the Canal Zone, John McCain is a citizen of the United States. However, the difference between "citizen" and "natural-born citizen" is an important one in this case, and some of the legal distinctions between the two are still murky. (The particular sticking points in Senator McCain's case are whether the Panama Canal Zone was covered by existing citizenship laws at the time of his birth, and whether someone who was born outside the U.S. and holds U.S. citizenship status by virtue of a law passed after his birth and applied retroactively qualifies as a natural-born citizen.)

The framers of the Constitution didn't elaborate on the term "natural born citizen," there has never been a court case defining exactly what a "natural-born citizen" is, and neither Congress nor the Supreme Court has definitively resolved the issue. It is therefore not completely inconceivable that someone could mount a legal challenge to Senator McCain's presidential eligibility, and that the issue would have to be decided in court:

"There are powerful arguments that Senator McCain or anyone else in this position is constitutionally qualified, but there is certainly no precedent," said Sarah H. Duggin, an associate professor of law at Catholic University who has studied the issue extensively. "It is not a slam-dunk situation."

In a paper written 20 years ago for the Yale Law Journal on the natural-born enigma, Jill Pryor, now a lawyer in Atlanta, said that any legal challenge to a presidential candidate born outside national boundaries would be "unpredictable and unsatisfactory ... it is certainly not a frivolous issue."

The issue is even more complicated because the process of challenging a presidential candidate's eligibility is itself a murky issue, as the New York Times noted:

Lawyers who have examined the topic say there is not just confusion about the provision [regarding natural-born citizenship status] itself, but uncertainty about who would have the legal standing to challenge a candidate on such grounds, what form a challenge could take and whether it would have to wait until after the election or could be made at any time.

A lawsuit challenging Senator McCain's eligibility is pending in Federal District Court in Concord, New Hampshire, but whether that lawsuit will be allowed to proceed is questionable:

In the motion to dismiss the New Hampshire suit, Mr. McCain's lawyers said an individual citizen like the plaintiff, a Nashua man named Fred Hollander, lacks proof of direct injury and cannot sue.

Daniel P. Tokaji, an election law expert at Ohio State University, agreed. "It is awfully unlikely that a federal court would say that an individual voter has standing," he said. "It is questionable whether anyone would have standing to raise that claim."

In April 2008 the Senate approved a non-binding resolution declaring John McCain eligible to be president, one which stated that "There is no evidence of the intention of the framers or any Congress to limit the constitutional rights of children born to Americans serving in the military nor to prevent those children from serving as their country's president." However, that resolution has no legal effect.

Two constitutional lawyers (Laurence Tribe and Theodore Olson) who have studied the issue at the request of Senator McCain found in his favor, but another law scholar recently declared he had determined just the opposite:

In the most detailed examination yet of Senator John McCain's eligibility to be president, a law professor at the University of Arizona has concluded that neither Mr. McCain's birth in 1936 in the Panama Canal Zone nor the fact that his parents were American citizens is enough to satisfy the constitutional requirement that the president must be a "natural-born citizen."

The analysis, by Prof. Gabriel J. Chin, focused on a 1937 law that has been largely overlooked in the debate over Mr. McCain's eligibility to be president. The law conferred citizenship on children of American parents born in the Canal Zone after 1904, and it made John McCain a citizen just before his first birthday. But the law came too late, Professor Chin argued, to make Mr. McCain a natural-born citizen.

"It's preposterous that a technicality like this can make a difference in an advanced democracy," Professor Chin said. "But this is the constitutional text that we have."

If a consensus on the matter can be said to exist, it is that if John McCain is not a natural-born citizen under the law, it's only because of an exceptional and narrow gap in the law that was subsequently corrected and was never intended to exclude someone in his circumstances from natural-born citizenship status, so it would be unfair to declare him ineligible for the presidency on that basis:

"No court will get close to it, and everyone else is on board, so there's a constitutional consensus, the merits of arguments such as [Professor Chin's] aside," said Peter J. Spiro, an authority on the law of citizenship at Temple University.

"You'd have to think a federal court would look for every possible way to avoid deciding the issue," [said election law expert Daniel P. Tokaji].

Senator Lindsey Graham, Republican of South Carolina and one of Mr. McCain's closest allies, said it would be incomprehensible to him if the son of a military member born in a military station could not run for president.

"He was posted there on orders from the United States government," Mr. Graham said of Mr. McCain's father. "If that becomes a problem, we need to tell every military family that your kid can't be president if they take an overseas assignment."

Last updated: 23 July 2008

The URL for this page is http://www.snopes.com/politics/mccain/citizen.asp

Urban Legends Reference Pages © 1995-2008 by snopes.com.

This material may not be reproduced without permission.

snopes and the snopes.com logo are registered service marks of snopes.com.

Sources Sources:

Hulse, Carl. "Senate Says McCain Is Qualified."

The New York Times. 1 May 2008.

Hulse, Carl. "McCain's Canal Zone Birth Prompts Queries About Whether That Rules Him Out."

The New York Times. 28 February 2008.

Liptak, Adam. "A Hint of New Life to a McCain Birth Issue."

The New York Times. 11 July 2008.

Associated Press. "McCain: My Citizenship Not an Issue."

USA Today. 29 February 2008.

Associated Press. "McCain Says Citizenship Issue Settled 44 Years Ago."

USA Today. 29 February 2008 (p. A6).

The Denver Post. "McCain Says His Birthplace Isn't an Issue."

USA Today. 29 February 2008 (p. A6).

http://www.snopes.com/politics/mccain/citizen.asp

Verdict: Yes. I found his birth certificate online:

papyrus.jpg

Edited by WideAwakeInTheUSA
Posted

old story

"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies."

Senator Barack Obama
Senate Floor Speech on Public Debt
March 16, 2006



barack-cowboy-hat.jpg
90f.JPG

Posted

Not even close to an issue, let alone a fresh one.

B and J K-1 story

  • April 2004 met online
  • July 16, 2006 Met in person on her birthday in United Arab Emirates
  • August 4, 2006 sent certified mail I-129F packet Neb SC
  • August 9, 2006 NOA1
  • August 21, 2006 received NOA1 in mail
  • October 4, 5, 7, 13 & 17 2006 Touches! 50 day address change... Yes Judith is beautiful, quit staring at her passport photo and approve us!!! Shaming works! LOL
  • October 13, 2006 NOA2! November 2, 2006 NOA2? Huh? NVC already processed and sent us on to Abu Dhabi Consulate!
  • February 12, 2007 Abu Dhabi Interview SUCCESS!!! February 14 Visa in hand!
  • March 6, 2007 she is here!
  • MARCH 14, 2007 WE ARE MARRIED!!!
  • May 5, 2007 Sent AOS/EAD packet
  • May 11, 2007 NOA1 AOS/EAD
  • June 7, 2007 Biometrics appointment
  • June 8, 2007 first post biometrics touch, June 11, next touch...
  • August 1, 2007 AOS Interview! APPROVED!! EAD APPROVED TOO...
  • August 6, 2007 EAD card and Welcome Letter received!
  • August 13, 2007 GREEN CARD received!!! 375 days since mailing the I-129F!

    Remove Conditions:

  • May 1, 2009 first day to file
  • May 9, 2009 mailed I-751 to USCIS CS
Filed: Country: Vietnam (no flag)
Timeline
Posted
Not even close to an issue, let alone a fresh one.

It's a post that is intended as a joke. Speaking of issues though, does McCain actually have anything to bring to the table other than what Obama has done, is doing, or intends to do? The only reason this guy is still in this race is because of racism.

Filed: Other Country: Canada
Timeline
Posted
Not even close to an issue, let alone a fresh one.

It's a post that is intended as a joke. Speaking of issues though, does McCain actually have anything to bring to the table other than what Obama has done, is doing, or intends to do? The only reason this guy is still in this race is because of racism.

One could say the same -- at least partially -- about Obama. One of the reasons he's become the "media darling" he is today is because he's an African American man who is successful and may very well become the first black president in the history of the United States. If he were white, the media would still probably favor him over McCain (such is the case with most news outlets when given the choice between Republican and Democratic candidates), but not to the same degree or with such fanfare.

Filed: Country: Vietnam (no flag)
Timeline
Posted
Not even close to an issue, let alone a fresh one.

It's a post that is intended as a joke. Speaking of issues though, does McCain actually have anything to bring to the table other than what Obama has done, is doing, or intends to do? The only reason this guy is still in this race is because of racism.

One could say the same -- at least partially -- about Obama. One of the reasons he's become the "media darling" he is today is because he's an African American man who is successful and may very well become the first black president in the history of the United States. If he were white, the media would still probably favor him over McCain (such is the case with most news outlets when given the choice between Republican and Democratic candidates), but not to the same degree or with such fanfare.

Agreed.

Filed: Citizen (apr) Country: Morocco
Timeline
Posted
The Natural

Claim: John McCain does not qualify as a natural-born citizen of the U.S. because he was born in Panama.

Status: Undetermined.

Example: [Collected via e-mail, July 2008]

I am hearing talk that Senator John McCain is not eligible to be President of the United States because he is not a natural-born citizen.

I deleted much of the original post for space reasons.

I was born in Panama, in the Canal Zone, because my father was in the Army at the time. The way it was explained to me in my 9th grade civics class was that I was automatically a citizen because that was a US territory back then. Also, I believe anyone born to US parents on any US military base is considered a citizen - the military bases are considered to be US soil. It's been a long time since 9th grade, so I'm not 100% sure.

A quote from Wikipedia states "In 1953, Congress passed legislation to specify the status of Americans born in the Canal Zone--and to exclude non-Americans born there from citizenship. Title 8, Section 1403 of the United States Code grants citizenship to those born in the Canal Zone with at least one parent who is a United States citizen. This differs from the provision in the Fourteenth Amendment which grants citizenship to all born in the United States, regardless of parental nationality."

I also remember my mother being really irritated when she got the run-around while applying for social security numbers for me and my brother (also born there). Apparently, someone was trying to tell her that we weren't citizens and couldn't get social security numbers. She waited until I was 5 or so (different rules back then - my kids applied for theirs before they left the hospital after birth). She was complaining about how they should have known the rules about citizenship since it was their job...

I think I heard once that I might be a dual citizen, but never found out for sure.

I just find this interesting since I was born under similar circumstances.

met online May 2006

visited him in Morocco July 2006

K-1 petition sent late September 2006 after second visit

December 2006 - third trip - went for his visa interview (stood outside all day)

visa approved! arrived here together right before Christmas 2006

married January 2007

AOS paperwork sent February 2007

RFE (yipee)

another RFE (yikes)

AOS approval July 2007

sent Removal of Conditions paperwork 01 May 2009

received I-751 NOA 14 May 2009

received ASC appt. notice 28 May 2009

biometrics appt. 12 June 2009

I-751 approval date 25 Sept 2009 (no updates on the system - still says 'received'/"initial review")

19 Oct 2009 - got text message "card production ordered"

24 Oct 2009 - actual card in the mail box!

sent his N-400 - 14 May 2010

check cashed 27 May 2010

NOA received 29 May 2010 (dated 24 May)

Biometrics Appointment Letter received 17 June 2010

Biometrics scheduled for 08 July 2010; walk-in successfully done in Philadelphia 07 July 2010

02 Oct 2010 - FINALLY got email saying the case was being transferred to the local office. Hoping to get his interview letter soon...

05 Oct 2010 - received interview letter!!!!

08 November 2010 - scheduled for N-400 interview

- went together for interview; file isn't there - need to wait to be rescheduled

Jan 2011 - went for Infopass

25 Feb 2011 - interview

19 April 2011 - Infopass

8 July 2011 - HE'S FINALLY A CITIZEN - WOO HOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

30 July 2011 - citizenship party

Posted
Not even close to an issue, let alone a fresh one.

It's a post that is intended as a joke. Speaking of issues though, does McCain actually have anything to bring to the table other than what Obama has done, is doing, or intends to do? The only reason this guy is still in this race is because of racism.

Whatever :whistle:

"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies."

Senator Barack Obama
Senate Floor Speech on Public Debt
March 16, 2006



barack-cowboy-hat.jpg
90f.JPG

 

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