The United States of America - my thoughts so far

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

Whoever compared America to Nazi Germany is being silly... I must have missed that post in this topic but I don't see why it was brought up or how they even compare.

It was the OP and believe me that bothered the other posters a lot less than insulting British food or the trains. Judging by the buzz I generated I take it this part of the forum doesn't brook my criticism of the home country. Americans who've been abroad have heard far worse and that was long before Bush. I even had one poster (who shall remain nameless but she she wasnt even British) who was so upset she brought up my insulting the UK on another thread which had devolved into a debate on viberators! Are they all made in Britain?

You kind of lose points here because you are totally mischaracterizing that exchange with that poster. Makes me kind of doubt your other claims about your experiences, or at least think you were exaggerating.

And incidentally Allen, the OP, has been a member of this forum for as long as I have. He is known for being a little overblown so we take what he says about "the nazis" with a considerable pinch of salt.

[VisaJourneyLady 33]

I think I made it clear it was 9 years ago and only 10 days in the UK. The thread was about impressions of America so far, so I thought I'd add a little balance after 83 posts on America. (Most of which were far worse than my measly take on MY UK experience) I mentioned I plan on returning to the UK at some point AND I pointed out how important Britain was and is to the world. The last part apparently wasn't enough of an endorsement.

Exactly. I think anyone here knows plenty about the down sides to the UK, because we have LIVED there. The majority of the posters have also LIVED in the US. Your observations of the UK, while I don't doubt were first hand, were observed on a very whistlestop tour of the UK, seemingly almost entirely on a train. The reason we are more vehement in our rejection of your comments, is becuase they are simply not ringing true for any of us that know the island better than you.

Finally, no, I have never heard the N word used in the UK. I have heard the P word mabye once. I heard the N word, and more like it plenty of times when I was staying and working in New Orleans (is that deep south enough for you). But far more than simply hearing the words, I observed the behaviour of the people in the small cafe's and diners all over the south and further (Louisana, Texas, Alabama, Wyoming, Montana, parts of Florida), when my OH and I (a mixed race African-American) would come in to their business. Let me tell you it was not friendly, and said a lot more than using any derogatory term towards us.

ETA: I have also been on trains in rural China, and while UK trains are more modern, you fail to point out that the Chinese train system (or what I experienced of it) is actually pretty comfortable, reliable, and used a lot because, like the UK, not as many people have cars. It was really a cheap shot.

You think we are overly defensive. I don't understand why you would stick around so long and try to defend what could hardly be described as a good sample of UK life. It was a short stay, a long time ago. Why are you so dogged about proving yourself? Maybe you better stick to the vibrator threads?

Edited August 28, 2008 by Poiteen

[Mark&Steph 0]

You can say that again! I still have dreams about this spinach and black bean balti you could get at this place called the K2 in Moseley. Although there's a place in Bradford that would give it a run for its money (the kind of place where you don't use utensils).

I've been there a couple of times. Mosely, Sparkbrook (or sparkhill... I always confuse the two), Balsall Heath, and even over by Birmingham Uni in Selly Oak have some great restaurants.

I have heard there are some great ones in Bradford, but have never been there so I'll have to take your word on that

[alienlovechild 75]

You kind of lose points here because you are totally mischaracterizing that exchange with that poster. Makes me kind of doubt your other claims about your experiences, or at least think you were exaggerating.

And incidentally Allen, the OP, has been a member of this forum for as long as I have. He is known for being a little overblown so we take what he says about "the nazis" with a considerable pinch of salt.

I love posters who are so defensive they claimed all of my experiences must be lies or grossly inflated. Look it happened so get over it. I don't presume to say you've never had bad day in America. The nazi jokes not seems not offensive enough but I'll bet I'd get some stinging rebukes or fistfights if I made remarks like that about the UK in the UK as an American.

But far more than simply hearing the words, I observed the behaviour of the people in the small cafe's and diners all over the south and further (Louisana, Texas, Alabama, Wyoming, Montana, parts of Florida), when my OH and I (a mixed race African-American) would come in to their business. Let me tell you it was not friendly, and said a lot more than using any derogatory term towards us.

I never seen that type of behavior openly in the South so you're probably lying or exaggerating. See how dumb it sounds ME characterizing YOUR experience. Care to explain what made you feel uneasy? Somebody looked at you and your OH and it pissed you off? My fiancee isn't white and my kids will be mixed and I don't intend walk around with chip on my shoulder like you. Also, the number of mixed race couples in America has soared and we may have mixed race president soon so your experiences don't square with the majority of Americans.

I have also been on trains in rural China, and while UK trains are more modern, you fail to point out that the Chinese train system (or what I experienced of it) is actually pretty comfortable, reliable, and used a lot because, like the UK, not as many people have cars. It was really a cheap shot.

I was talking the behavior of passengers including drunken football fans and British Nazis shouting "Sieg Heil" at the conductor with a Nazi salute no less. The Chinese are bigger slobs on trains throwing all their garbage on the floor or out the window. Again, you weren't in China with me and didn't have to stand up, watch fistfights break out at the ticket window get the stares worse than a Southern diner, watch some Chinese girl vomiting on the floor or a horribly deformed crippled guy with his legs twisted outward singing and flashing photos of his family in the train car nad begging for money. Great, now I can get every Chinese poster on me for slandering Chinese trains. Conditions were worse on Chinese trains and not at all comfortable but the British passengers I saw were worse considering they should know better.

You think we are overly defensive. I don't understand why you would stick around so long and try to defend what could hardly be described as a good sample of UK life. It was a short stay, a long time ago. Why are you so dogged about proving yourself?

That's my cue to end my part in the thread. You guys are far more defensive and worried about a single poster who didn't have the best experience on a trip. By contrast, I don't deny what you've experienced here in the U.S. not even the negative stuff. Learn to take a little criticism before you dish out heaps of scorn on us poor, stupid, racist, overweight, Bible-thumping, xenophobic, car-bound, monolingual, passportless, Bush supporting, Nazi and KKK affliated Americans. Oh yeah, we can't talk about that stuff posted because it's all a joke, right?

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

No offense Alien, but you actually sound a lot more angry and "defensive" than anyone here

I love posters who are so defensive they claimed all of my experiences must be lies or grossly inflated. Look it happened so get over it. I don't presume to say you've never had bad day in America. The nazi jokes not seems not offensive enough but I'll bet I'd get some stinging rebukes or fistfights if I made remarks like that about the UK in the UK as an American.

I'd say some of the most negative stuff I've read in this forum about the UK was by UK people themselves (including the OP).

Edited August 28, 2008 by rkl57

[Krikit 1,164]

Wow. I think we just witnessed a meltdown. Those are some serious anger issues right there. Can you imagine what would happen if Alan logged on?

[ginger1981 0]

Wow. I think we just witnessed a meltdown. Those are some serious anger issues right there. Can you imagine what would happen if Alan logged on?

I think this guy goes out and hunts down threads to be a blowhard. Check out the Springfield, MO thread.

[no name 1]

That's my cue to end my part in the thread.

[Krikit 1,164]

Wow. I think we just witnessed a meltdown. Those are some serious anger issues right there. Can you imagine what would happen if Alan logged on?

I think this guy goes out and hunts down threads to be a blowhard. Check out the Springfield, MO thread.

Ahh, yes. I remember that.

[Gemmie 142]

I think people might be being a bit too harsh on ALC, claiming that she must be exaggerating or lying. That's not very fair considering that we expect others to believe our points.

ALC, I've taken your points bit by bit and given you my take on it and haven't been overly defensive. If people are willing to dish out personal criticisms about the US, then they should be abel to take them about the UK. I'm just trying to give a more accurate view seeing as I've lived here forever in contrast to 10 days, as you said.

Your points appear to be based on negative incidents that rarely happen, for example, of all the time I've lived here, I've never had a bag stolen or heard the N word. (Yes, I have heard the P word quite a few times but definitely not openly) I have had friends that have had things stolen of course but most of the time, it was their own fault for leaving it and walking off at a busy club. Not to mention that the things you mentioned have been improved in the past 10 years, like camera installation and luggage compartments. Your experience of the police officer was acceptable being that there was nothing else that could be done about it.

I can't accept that British rail passengers are all painted with the same brush due to a handful of drinken idiots that you would find anywhere in the world, including China, and including the US. I take the train every month and have only experienced said idiots once or twice in the past few years.

On a sidenote, I'm kinda shocked that it's 8% non-white in the UK, I really am. Everywhere I go, there are foreigners and it seemed to be increasing by the day. Who knew.

[no name 1]

On a sidenote, I'm kinda shocked that it's 8% non-white in the UK, I really am. Everywhere I go, there are foreigners and it seemed to be increasing by the day. Who knew.

Those stats are based on 2001 census - 7 years ago. Hardly the current pic.

[elmcitymaven 9,712]

I even had one poster (who shall remain nameless but she she wasnt even British) who was so upset she brought up my insulting the UK on another thread which had devolved into a debate on viberators!

That was me! I have totally transmogrified from VJ good girl to agent provacateur. Yay!

Dude, as I keep saying, relax. I have no idea why you thought I was so freaked out, like I was running around shrieking "OMGZ!!!1!1!!!" and whatnot. I was chilling at my desk, writing letters, controlling the universe from my undisclosed Ivy League bunker, and every so often dipping back in to lark about. I especially love how in that thread you were all over my azz about bringing up behaviour in another thread, claiming that each thread's topic and its posts should be discrete, and considered in isolation from all other posts and/or topics. And yet, here you are, dragging what happened there into here. Nice one!

And yes, I'm not British by birth, but I did move there when I was pretty young and spent my entire adult life over there until last year so yeah, I think I can represent for my UK peeps just fine. In many ways, I am still much more British in my attitudes than American.

So please, I don't want you to have an aneurysm. We're not all arseholes over here in the UK sub-forum, but we don't take kindly to having the country dragged through the mud by someone with limited experience of the place. It's just like family -- you don't like anyone criticizing your crazy Aunt Shirley, unless it's someone who's actually related to her. Then the gloves are off.

Have a groovy day!

[Krikit 1,164]

Dammit. I see he's responding. Why or why do I have to leave now?!!!

[elmcitymaven 9,712]

Yeah, #######, I have to go back to work too. Boo. I'll have to wait for the character assassination until tea time.

[alienlovechild 75]

Sorry but since I'm also getting punished for other irrelevant threads, last shot.

I have no idea why you thought I was so freaked out, like I was running around shrieking "OMGZ!!!1!1!!!" and whatnot.

What is your problem and why are you following me across threads on different threads claiming I'm the obsessive one? You're not the only one with Ginger looking for more telling threads on me. If the budding detective got a clue she'd realize I have posted on different subjects and made statements on the Philippines section. I posted on one UK sub-forum thread and a handful on the new to America sub-forum over six months. I must the only person who did that on VJ.

I especially love how in that thread you were all over my azz about bringing up behaviour in another thread, claiming that each thread's topic and its posts should be discrete, and considered in isolation from all other posts and/or topics. And yet, here you are, dragging what happened there into here. Nice one!

Ah, there's a big difference there Ivy Leaguer- Your name was never mentioned by me in this thread. You were just an example of an (still) outraged poster bring up this thread on entirely different thread. . .and coming back for more even after I respected your wishes and let it go earlier. That's real classy.

And yes, I'm not British by birth, but I did move there when I was pretty young and spent my entire adult life over there until last year so yeah, I think I can represent for my UK peeps just fine. In many ways, I am still much more British in my attitudes than American.

I'm not going to go through your whole biography because I know you value your privacy but since you brought it up twice. . . I'll mention it in the last paragraph so don't go all nuts about my hypocrisy and how mean-spirited I am.

We're not all arseholes over here in the UK sub-forum, but we don't take kindly to having the country dragged through the mud by someone with limited experience of the place. It's just like family -- you don't like anyone criticizing your crazy Aunt Shirley, unless it's someone who's actually related to her. Then the gloves are off.

No, but a great number like yourself are incredibility sensitve to any slight. Just because your birth certificate reads "American" it doesn't mean much if your upbringing was in another country. My fiancee is a Filipina but I don't she'll forget here education and life in the Philippines just because somebody hands her a U.S. passport. The more time and exposure one has in a given foreign country usually leads to a greater degree of assimilation and self-identification unless you never learn the local tongue.

Anyone who doesn't like fish and chips or thinks the trains (were) run poorly must be hunted down forever. Now I know why King George III went insane over dealing with the colonies.